WCSox

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) Dick, at the time of the trade, Kenny even said they really had no idea how they were going to pay for the salary. He said they were pretty much winging it. That he didn't know how it was going to work, just that they would make it work. They likely would've adjusted their roster to financially accommodate Peavy. That means that any of Dotel, Thome, and Dye may have been sent packing this winter. (I'm still holding out hope that they offer Dye a two-year deal at the end of the season.) Bingo. Peavy would've anchored this rotation for several years. I'm pretty sure that they're not creaming themselves over the prospect of 1 1/2 years of Halladay.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 10:41 AM) But doesnt it become a circus if he's constantly in rumors? Every time an ace hits the market, Poreda will start mentally packing his bags. Maybe some guys dont let that affect them, but I'd say just b/c they wont admit it to the media, it doesnt mean they always handle it perfectly. Maybe. But Poreda was only been *confirmed* to be a piece in one deal. The rest is all media conjecture, and that's not going to stop because that's what the media does. ANY highly-touted pitching prospect is going to be the subject of trade rumors.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 08:09 AM) Yeah those guys will normally get a team to increase attendance by 40%. /green Nice straw man. How about fielding a competitive team that went on to win the division? Shouldn't that garner more than 16/30 in MLB attendance? QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 08:03 AM) Either this is a smokescreen by Kenny, or he's just covering his ass early for not making any big moves to improve this team. If Peavy didn't exercise his NTC, Kenny would've added a marquee pitcher and committed over $60 million in the middle of a severe recession. There isn't exactly a lack of effort on his part.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 10:36 AM) We cant put Poreda's name out there in the news again. You cant constantly be openly offering him for every ace out there, that kills a player's confidence in their situation. I don't understand how a young player's confidence is hurt when he's a bargaining chip for two marquee pitchers. If anything, it sends the message that two teams think quite a bit of him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 09:38 AM) I would bet based on everything we've heard so far that all 18 GM's of contending teams have given Toronto a call, and at least for now, the price has been "Beckham from Chicago" "Lester from Boston" "Chamberlain from New York" "Rasmus from St. Louis" "Escobar from Milwaukee" "Kershaw from Los Angeles" and so on. They've got at least 3 weeks to hold out and nothing forces them to make a trade period. Right now, they can afford to wait 2 weeks and see if someone is willing to part with a piece that most teams would consider crazy. The only way he moves to us is if the price drops a fair amount at the end of July, which is somewhat likely...but then the question will be, what do the Blue Jays get offered from other teams? Yep, Ricciardi will ask for the moon initially and see who bites. I'm pretty sure that Beckham, Lester, Chamberlain, and Kershaw will not be dealt. The Sox have a fighting chance with Richard and Poreda available, and likely Flowers as well. I don't believe Kenny's statement that attendance will hinder this deal. What WILL keep Halladay out of Chicago would be Kenny (rightly) refusing to deal Beckham, Danks, or Floyd, or another team out-bidding him. That said, I'm perfectly content if Halladay isn't in a Sox uni at the end of the month. A year and a half isn't that long and, given his age, I don't see the Sox extending him. It might be better to stand pat this time.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 09:18 AM) He has one. And I get the feeling that he'd be more willing to move away from Toronto than Peavy was to move away from SD. Not that it means that he'll get anything, but I have no doubt that Kenny has given Ricciardi a call or two over the past week. He'd be a bad GM if he didn't at least try to get a feel for what it'd take to get Halladay.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 07:52 AM) KW knows if he gets 1 or even 2 sexy names before the deadline, attendance will boost up there. Hey KW, if you BUILD IT, WE WILL COME! Kenny added Griffey, Swisher, Linebrink, Dotel, and Cabrera last year, got an MVP-caliber season out of Quentin and a ROTY-caliber season out of Alexei. Oh, and they won the division. Yet, only the MLB average came.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 09:08 PM) But KW has over payed for guys in the past. Guys like Todd Richie and Nick Swisher come to mind. Absolutely agree about Ritchie, but Swisher was more of a salary dump than anything. That and he annoyed the hell out of everybody in the clubhouse. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 07:15 AM) The Twins dealing Santana is a completely different scenario to the Jays moving Halladay. The Twins HAD to move Santana for budgetary purposes and because you can't merely get two compensatory selections for a player of that quality. The Blue Jays don't have to do a damn thing, if the best package on the table doesn't suit what they want, they can hang up the phone and let Doc keep on pitching. Do we know for sure that the Jays don't HAVE to move Halladay for budgetary purposes as well? They're averaging 22,800 per game (25th in the majors) in a city that doesn't really care about baseball and are paying B.J. Ryan $12 million this year to suck.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 05:26 AM) How is it that they had plenty of money to assume the $63 million Jake Peavy was owed 2 months ago, but now have don't have the money to pick up anything but spare parts? Its either a smokescreen, some sort of gamesmanship or delusional. Most likely because they would've had Peavy under control for several years, they would've given up next to nothing for a player of his caliber, and Peavy's smack in the middle of his prime. Those three conditions won't be there for Roy Halladay or Danny Haren. The Sox obviously have the money, but it's not surprising that they're being a lot more careful on who they spend on this year (especially after Kenny over-spent on Linebrink and Dotel last year). Hence, decent-but-not-great players like Swisher get dealt to free up the opportunity for a big-name impact player like Peavy down the road. If that opportunity falls through or never arises, Kenny holds onto the money and waits for the next opportunity. With revenue down across the league, but players' contracts not yet adjusted to the current economic conditions, you're probably not going to see as many big-name players being dealt at the deadline this year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:15 PM) No? Have you read message boards before? Let's face it, the midwest, and the White Sox fanbase in particular, is a very "blue-collar" fanbase. It's a fanbase that, relative to others, does not spend as much of its time in front of a computer, due in large part to the occupations it holds. That is not necessarily to say it does not get paid well, but it does not spend as much time reading about farm systems, learning the newest offensive and defensive metrics, etc. It gets most of its knowledge from sports radio as well as the team's beat writers. I don't really agree with this. The "blue collar" tag on Sox fans isn't terribly accurate, or at least isn't nearly as accurate as it was 30 years ago when you would routinely see shirtless working-class guys with cigarettes dangling out of their mouths at the old ballpark. Reinsdorf et al. went out of their way to cater to the white collar suburbanite demographic (not to mention the corporate demographic with all of the luxury suites) in the '90s and were pretty successful in that regard. At this point, I don't see much of a difference between Sox and Cubs fans in terms of baseball knowledge. The only difference I've noticed over the years is that the Sox seem to have more minority fans and the Cubs seem to have more "Greek System"-type fans. I also don't think that the working-class/minority/frat guy/sorority chick demographics that appear to be overly-represented at Chicago baseball games are less educated about their teams because of their occupations, education level, age, etc. It's about the sports culture in Chicago. Unlike New York, Boston, or St. Louis, baseball comes in a distant second to football. Chicago is all about the Bears. Most of the Midwest and the South are football-crazy, and baseball takes a back seat to both the pro and college teams in most areas.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 09:53 PM) will Paul Konerko eventually be the all time HR leader for the White Sox? It's possible... He would have to be re-signed after 2010, and that's far from a lock. And even if he is... man, he still has like 130 more to go. Either way, I love me some Paulie.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:20 PM) I think the White Sox would do well to study the Angels' example of how to compete and be perceived as almost "even" with the Dodgers in a city/region that probably had a similar split (60/40) of Dodgers to Angels fans. Moreno has reasonable prices, lots of new/innovative ideas because of his advertising and marketing background, reasonable parking prices...bringing in marquee names like Guerrero and Hunter and Texeira, etc. We will never compete on the same level as the Big 4 (Yankees/Cubs/Red Sox/Mets), but why can't we be close to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim? Because the Sox aren't in a market of 20 million. I agree that Moreno is an outstanding owner (the best in MLB, IMO), but he has a massive advantage with SoCal's population. It also helps that the Angels are big in Orange County, which is relatively affluent.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 09:01 PM) I really don't get the anger over his comments. He didn't say the fans sucked, he didn't say the team was unappreciated, he said their numbers are off of what they expected. I don't understand why that is such a venomous statement. I swear, White Sox fans are incredibly thin-skinned and defensive, whether it comes to the Cubs, the attendance, or an outsider being objective about the organization. I don't agree with the ticket prices and Kenny's comments could probably be taken the wrong way by some. Fair enough. But I agree with shack that a disproportionately large percentage of Sox fans are a bunch of whiners. Not that Kenny has been a perfect GM, but he's done nothing but spend, spend, and spend on veteran talent since 2005. And Sox attendance was right back at the MLB average just two years after he brought home a championship. Guess what, people? No organization can sustain a $100 million payroll indefinitely with average-to-mediocre attendance. If you don't like it, feel free to drive 8 miles north to watch the Cub out-spend the Sox and have fewer results to show for it. And when you whine about Wise and Lillibridge being on the Opening Day roster this season, keep in mind that the same "arroagant" GM responsible for that completed a deal for Jake Peavy two months later. Seriously, some of you are in need of perspective.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:03 PM) f*** you, Kenny. Yeah, I said it. Even if true, any business that blames its customers for its own inability to improve its product is idiotic and arrogant. Kenny, JR, and the rest of the powers-that-be have spent generously on this team since the WS (and still sport a $100 million payroll), despite the fan support being nothing more than average for the past 2 1/2 years. I don't like what they've done with the prices, but they've obviously made a good-faith effort to invest everything that they reasonably can in their roster since the fans bought up season tickets like crazy in 2005/2006.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:30 PM) You cant argue the facts. If the Sox had a higher attendance, they would be able to support a higher payroll. IIRC, they're sporting a $100 million payroll for the fourth year in a row now, yet have only cracked the Top 10 in attendance once (2006) and Top 15 twice (2006, 2007). They've spent generously since 2006, despite average or below-average attendance over the past three seasons. What's happening now is the cumulative effect of multiple years of average gate returns on this spending. Mostly agree with this... ... but not this. No doubt that the strike hurt baseball attendance (especially the Sox), but the truth is that the Sox struggled with attendance mightily before the strike. They barely drew a million fans in 1989 (dead last in the AL) and fared poorly in the previous two years as well (13th out of 14th in '88 and 12th in '87). By the time the strike hit, home attendance had been dropping steadily from the New Comiskey "honeymoon" period. Granted, it took a WS to get back to the 2 million mark, but it's not like they're struggling at the gate again in comparison to the rest of the league. They just can't support a Red Sox-like payroll with average gate numbers.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:04 PM) I haven't been opposed to trading Jenks since 2007, but as of now, with Williams obviously intent on competing, it's just out of the question. Unless there's the once in a generation type of package for him that is impossible to reject. With Jenks under team control for the next 2 1/2 years, I don't see him being moved until at least next summer. Even if the Sox were having another 2007-like season right now, I think that it would literally have to be a deal that Kenny couldn't refuse.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 05:35 PM) I really think this is a set up move. I don't know if that set up move is surprising everyone and trading Jenks, or trading Dotel or putting Linebrink on the DL. Dotel seems the most likely to be on the move. And as I said earlier, that may be to replace him later this month or this winter. Linebrink hasn't pitched that poorly over the past couple of weeks, so I wouldn't expect a DL stint. But who knows. I hope not. The guy's been f'n dealing all season in long relief. Leave him there. Although Poreda to the rotation, Richard back to the 'pen, and Colon DFA'd would make sense.

The only way this makes sense to me is as a long-term move with Dotel gone at the end of the year (if not sooner) and Linebrink's shoulder being completely unreliable. And even then, I'm not seeing the value in Pena.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 05:06 PM) source? DJ just announced it on the radio.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 04:53 PM) Flowers + Poreda + Richard + Getz would do the trick, I'm guessing. I'd be fine with that, but I think that Ricciardi would want either Danks or Floyd. No way I trade either of those two for 1 1/2 seasons of Halladay, especially with the veteran talent that the Sox will be losing over the next year.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 6, 2009 -> 12:57 PM) Throw in Linebrink to unload that salary. No GM in his right mind would pick up Linebrink's bum shoulder and salary. Not even a megalomaniac half-wit like Ricciardi. QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 6, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) I think people are over blowing the age thing. Halladay isn't a velocity pitcher, he tops out at like 92 with his fastball and sits around 89-90. We don't have to worry about a loss in velocity as much as we would for lets say an Oswalt. Plus, Halladay really isn't an injury risk either. I think he will continue to be really good until he is 35 or 36, and even after his good years, I think he'll still be solid thanks to how good of a pitcher he is and how he uses all of his pitches effectively. Halladay probably has another 2-3 really good years in him. But I still wouldn't trade a somebody like Danks for him. I also don't see Ricciardi moving Halladay until the Jays are completely out of it, as his job is likely resting on how they do this season. They'll probably still be semi-competitive by the deadline, so I don't see him going anywhere until this winter.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) Is it okay if you think Chris Rongey qualifies as one of those idiots? Rongey may not be a baseball genius, but some of these callers are inhumanly stupid.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) I don't have any issues with Richard being given a long leash. I do think Poreda is going to be a better pitcher and I want to see him getting starts, though. I'm not yet sold on Poreda being a starter, but I agree that he should at least throw more innings (if not get a few starts).

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) It's kind of unfair to compare Richard to Buehrle, too. When Buehrle had his first full season he got slapped around a little bit at first but he could pretty much be called an instant-impact guy after that and never looked back. If Richard was going to be compared to Buehrle he'd have to be doing that right about now. So is it more fair to compare Richard to Randy Johnson, who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn during his first few years in the majors and only threw two pitches effectively for most of his career? Not that Richard has even a fraction of Johnson's talent, but geez... let's at least give the guy a full year in the rotation before we start calling for his head. Due only has 18 major league starts under his belt, spread over two half-seasons.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 03:07 PM) and I would trade for the "pressure/stress" of that job in a minute There isn't much pressure or stress in dealing with incredibly stupid people. It's just an annoyance. Your comparison with Hawk is solid, although Hawk has the luxury of not having to constantly defend the Sox front office for 30 minutes after every game. His toeing of the company is usually unsolicited.