WCSox

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 03:18 PM) That is simply silly. Richard doesn't have 1/5th the celing that Danks or Floyd did as they developed, and he doesn't have 1/5th the ceiling that Aaron Poreda does either. Buehrle didn't have a high ceiling when he was drafted either. Without implying that Richard has anywhere near Danks' talent level, there is sometimes too much reliance on scouting and projections. After draft day, those reports go out the window and players are ranked by what they do on the field. And while I agree that Richard will most likely be a 4th or 5th starter at best, we'll never know if we run him out of town and don't give him time to develop.

I had the misfortune of listening to today's post-game show. I've listened to the show occasionally in the past, but not often because most of the callers are completely uninformed and some are completely lacking in intellect. Is going nuts on the idiot callers and use words like "crap" "idiot", and "moron" to describe them a recent phenomenon?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 01:16 PM) It depends on what your goal is. If it's the 5th starter spot, you've got 4 other guys rolling, and you're looking to develop a young pitcher for the future, then you can certainly keep throwing someone out there who struggles to get through the 5th and has bad numbers. Give you a perfect example. Full season WHIP: 1.540. Got worse every month; 2nd half 1.642 WHIP, 7.11 ERA, 1-7 record. Who am I looking at? That's John Danks, 2007. Face it, Clayton has some talent, he just needs work. He's not getting that sitting on the bench. You want to develop a young starter in to something solid, you have to put up with some struggles. Would I have a problem moving Poreda in for some starts? No. Would I expect him to go more than 4 innings? No. I agree. Overall, Richard's overall numbers for the year aren't terrible for a #5 in the AL. I'd much rather watch Richard suck during a developmental phase than watch Colon suck at the tail end of his career. As for Poreda, I'm not convinced that he has a future outside of the 'pen. I'd like to see him get some long relief opportunities, but overall I don't have a problem with the handling of our pitchers right now.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) I think this economy and our ability to pick up Rolen is actually why we should get him. I actually mentioned this awhile back too. Viciedo is still developing and should be on a plan to start in 2011. Rolen's contract is up at the end of 2010, so if we got him, we know we have defense there and we know we have a bat. No, 6 HR is not a ton, but he's also playing very well on turf in a large ballpark and that is a major statement when it comes to his health questions and his power. Rolen was always more of a pure hitter than a slugger anyway. If we got Rolen, we wouldn't necessarily be counting on him for the playoffs. I'd bring back Uribe who should cost next to nothing and is only making $1M. If Rolen doesn't finish out September, put Uribe's defense there again. Same thing in 2010, maybe a different backup though. Moving Beckham to 2B and putting Rolen at 3B is a major offensive upgrade and should be a defensive upgrade as well given Rolen's ability at the hot corner, so that should hopefully give us another 2-3 wins or maybe even more which could be enough to put us in front this season. Then in 2010 we have a stopgap, and if he gets hurt midseason, oh well, because now Viciedo is probably ready to step up and learn. The key with a Rolen deal is that we get a major upgrade now without sacrificing a big part of the future, plus we get a stopgap for Viciedo, and we do it because the Jays need salary relief. If you think Beckham is our future 3B then that's one way to look at it, but I see our future IF as Viciedo-Alexei-Beckham-Allen/Flowers so even though I like Getz I would be willing to deal him elsewhere. Probably not to Toronto because they have Aaron Hill, but the Braves need a 2B, so do the Mariners, and I'm sure there are others too, so I think we could get something useful there that would make us stronger now without hurting a future team. Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Rolen got hurt in late 2004 and has put up a grand total of ONE full season since then. A player of his caliber may be a good backup plan, but I don't want the Sox spending $17 million on a guy whose prospects for a healthy year and a half in Chicago aren't good. I agree that he's having a nice season so far, but that was after missing about two weeks at the beginning of April with more injury problems. If Ricciardi would pick up a large chunk of his contract and Kenny didn't have to give up much, I might be able to get on board with it. But $17 million for a declining, injury-prone place-holder/backup plan for Viciedo is way too much. I'd rather invest less money in one of the other players named earlier in this thread. That would provide the Sox with two advantages: (1) More money to spend this (or next) winter and (2) a backup plan for Viciedo if he doesn't pan out. In addition, the Jays are going to have to fall out of contention before Ricciardi can move Rolen. I'm sure that they have a pressing need for financial relief, but Ricciardi's job is also on the line after much of his spending blew up in his face last year (not to mention his embarrassing remarks about Adam Dunn last year and the famous Ted Lilly/John Gibbons fistfight). Even if the Jays fall several games below .500 later this month and a firesale is deemed necessary, Ricciardi's going to have difficulty convincing a team to pay $6 million for two months of Rolen. I have no problem with Beckham eventually moving to 2B. His skills set suggests that he'll play well there. But they'd have to secure a veteran 3B to justify screwing with Beckham's development even further this year.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 11:27 AM) I'm willing to shake hands and agree to disagree if you are, WCSox... Lets be honest here, this argument hadn't gone anywhere for like the past 5 replies, it's just the same points made over and over again, except with us getting nastier and more pissed at each other. It's obvious we aren't changing each other minds, and it's getting pointless. That's fine with me.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 11:07 AM) I'm done with you. According to you moving from the left side of the infield to the right side is the toughest thing everzzzzzz and it'll cost Beckham millions of dollars. Just nonsense. Your sophomoric characterization of my posts is about what I've come to expect from you.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) 4. Scott Rolen's numbers. Since when is .332/.392/.490 a bad year? BTW Rolen has played in 69 games this year so far, 115 last year, 112 in 2007, and 142 in 2006. 2005 was the last season he missed a huge chunk of time. If we acquired him I would want to deal for a backup just in case Rolen also has a whole 6 HRs this year. His OPS is nice (due mostly to a very good OBP), but I expect a better slugging percentage for an $11 million player in this economy. I also don't consider 115 and 112 games played anything close to a full or healthy season, and have little confidence that he'll stay healthy down the stretch. I would've given my left nut for Rolen five years ago, but he's clearly on the decline and isn't anything close to a long-term option for hte Sox.. I don't have a problem with the Sox pursuing a veteran 3B, but it's going to have to be somebody who contributes past October (if we get there). Otherwise, it'll be another Griffey-esque waste. Perhaps I shouldn't have characterized Beckham as a "natural" SS. What I meant to convey is that he's more comfortable playing SS than 2B right now. With Alexei having played most of a season at 2B last year and doing it exceptionally well, it would make a lot more sense to move Alexei back there and move Beckham to a more familiar SS for this season, if the Sox DO end up landing a veteran 3B.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 5, 2009 -> 10:33 AM) My god, what don't you get? Sure, I never said there isn't an adjustment. But it isn't a tough one. Beckham sure handled 2B well in the AFL and Spring Training, but you're right, we should just ignore all that. This isn't the time to be moving players to different positions in general. Especially rookies. Alexei also showed that CF to 2B mid-season was a pretty easy transition as well. So if Alexei can do it, Beckham can as well, right? Yep, until he commits a few errors that cost his team some games. Guys like Derek Jeter can handle that level of adversity. Other younger players who are still lacking in confidence can't. Do you want to gamble that Beckham can in his rookie year? I don't. I'd rather bring him along carefully, and save those types of moves for next season. I'll bet that Beckham learning 3B and having to perform well at that position shortly after at the major league level with tens of millions of dollars on the line is a bit more pressure that what you experienced taking your SAT. Again, you focus solely on raw talent and completely brush aside age, experience, and confidence. But I'm not surprised, since you've never managed anybody in a work environment in your life. Rolen is 34 years old, he's lost most of his power, he's constantly injured, and he's getting paid $11 million this year. He's also got traded from the Cards because he's a prima donna who couldn't get along with LaRussa. Giving up talent for an expensive, declining player with an attitude problem is an incredibly bad idea. Alexei played (an exceptional) 121 games at 2B last season and has several more years of baseball experience under his belt than Beckham. That's an even worse comparison than Beckham/Nix.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 04:24 PM) LOL, is this serious? 3B, yeah, probably easier than SS, but 2B is arguably the easiest spot on the infield. At 2B you can get away with a weak arm and slow reflects if you have decent athleticism and range. Again, you're completely missing the point. The footwork, body movement, arm angle, and throwing motion at 2B are completely different than at SS. It has nothing to do with physical skill, it's about transition time. And there's no point in Beckham making that transition when the Sox are in a tight division race. This isn't rookie development time. Following your logic, Ozzie should be able to move Beckham to CF. Because, you know, he's "baseball retarded" and a "mental midget" if he can't pick it up in a day or two. I'm glad that you're not managing the Sox, because your baseball ignorance is off the charts. I'm glad that you don't have Ozzie's job, because your expectations of rookies are completely unrealistic. Since I'm an adult with a 50-60 hour/week job and a family to support, I'd say that my perspective on the stress of a high-pressure professional job is a bit more informed than yours. Right, being 27 vs. 23 and having that much baseball experience has NO significance whatsoever. Nor does Nix being a career minor-leaguer (drafted in 2001) who didn't play a single Major League game until 2008. I mean, my God, that's an almost EQUAL background to Beckham trading in his aluminum bat last summer to join the Sox minor league system. Why don't you compare Beckham to Dewayne Wise while you're at it? The Sox invested a first-round pick and a couple million dollars in Beckham last year. They would be smart to handle that large investment carefully at first, and give him time to develop. If Fields weren't so bad, there's no doubt that Beckham would still be at AA right now. I don't even know why you're even talking about moving Beckham to 2B in the first place. First of all, who in the hell are the Sox going to acquire at 3B? Scott Rolen, who's overpaid, injury-prone, and hasn't had a good season since 2006? Secondly, why in the hell would you put Beckham at 2B, when Alexei was a defensive stud there last season and Beckham is a natural SS? That doesn't make any sense.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 02:16 PM) I'll agree that 2B should be an easier transition for a middle infielder than moving from SS to 3B. The game is so much faster at third than up the middle...even "slow" (running-wise) players like Crede can excel there with excellent anticipation and first step "quickness" whereas some more athletic players (like Fields) consistently struggle and show almost no range over there It all depends on the player. Ripken and A-Rod had no trouble moving from SS to 3B. Beckham seems to be handling the transition from physical range (SS) to reaction time (3B). I don't see the point in making him learn to play SS "backwards" (2B) on top of it, especially when Alexei is already proficient at 2B. This talk of moving Beckham to 2B mid-season is silly. For starters, the Sox would have to acquire a better option at 3B. And even then, it would make more sense to move Beckham to SS and Alexei to 2B. For the long-term, Beckham at 2B might not be a bad idea. But not now.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 10:54 AM) Weeks of practice? Beckham had maybe a little bit over a week at 3B before he got called up. And why exactly couldn't Beckham handle 2B? He'd have more reaction time, has plenty of range, is pretty athletic, and would have plenty of arm strength at 2B. I guarantee he's played more at 2B in his life than he has at 3B. That last sentence is pure conjecture on your part. Your arguments seem to rely pretty heavily on that. Moving from one side of the infield to the other is not an easy transition. It completely throws off your instincts, as all of your angles and moves are the opposite of what you're used to. One doesn't have to deal with that when moving from SS to 3B. Assuming that reaction time and arm strength aren't issues, 3B is actually much easier to play than SS or 2B. But for some reason, you're foolishly applying it to Beckham's experience in the Majors. I guess you never considered that. Beckham stands to lose tens of millions of dollars (money that could secure his entire family for generations) if he doesn't pan out in the next three seasons. He also stands to lose a career that he loves. I'd say that's plenty of pressure. Nix is also four years older than Beckham, and has played 3B, 2B, and SS extensively in the minors. I'm glad that you're not managing the Sox. Because you don't have much of a handle on how competitive MLB is, how much pressure highly-touted rookies are under (from the team, from the media, from themselves), and how the money involved translates into little patience on the behalf of managers and GMs for poor play. And this is exactly why Beckham didn't join the Sox in April, even after putting up a very impressive spring in Arizona.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 10:28 AM) If you can play a decent SS, you can play either 3B or 2B with little problem. And in fact, the switch to 2B is probably easier than the switch to 3B. Yes, WITH WEEKS OF PRACTICE. Beckham played 3B for weeks in the minors (under less pressure, and he didn't play 3B well initially in the majors), not on the ridiculous two-day window that you're proposing. I also don't agree with your blanket statement of the adjustment from SS to 2B is easier than SS to 3B. Much of that depends on the player's skill set (arm strength, reflexes, athleticism, etc.). Playing a position effectively in the Majors requires a much more significant adjustment than what your Little League coach expected. Ozzie and Kenny aren't as patient or forgiving. Yeah, because there's no pressure whatsoever for a first-round pick to field three different positions in his rookie season. Even the most mentally-tough professionals (in any field) feel significant pressure to perform, as their careers and financial security depend heavily on their initial performances. Following your logic, there would be no need for top prospects to develop in the minors. Because if they can't make the necessary adjustments right off the bat in the pros, they're "mentally fragile" and shouldn't be playing baseball.

QUOTE (DaveBrown85 @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 08:19 AM) I am a big white sox fan and everytime i hear that Journey song it pisses me of It reminds me more of The Sopranos than the Sox now.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 09:26 AM) Yes, there is so much pressure putting him back in the MI where he is most comfortable, but no pressure in asking him to play a spot he never really played before. SS and 2B are completely different positions. Have you ever played organized baseball?

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 08:28 AM) Of course the team would have to struggle mightily at this point for that to happen. Exactly, which is the opposite of what's happening now. I could see Quentin moving to RF next year, but it's very possible that Kenny will try to re-sign JD for a "market-adjusted" price.

There's no point in moving Beckham to 2B unless the Sox trade for a stud. And Scott Rolen isn't that guy. He's in his mid-30's, has been on the decline for years, and hasn't played more than 115 games since 2006. I don't see the Sox acquiring a veteran 3B any time soon. And has been said earlier, forcing Beckham to learn a third position in his rookie year is a bad idea. That's not the kind of pressure that you want to put on a rookie. If, say, Omar Minaya lost his mind and traded David Wright to the Sox, Beckham would be sent back to the minors.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 03:03 PM) 1. Podsednik CF We'll take a hit defensively, but there's no way that we can take Pods out of the lineup right now. I hope that Quentin's return means that Wise gets DFA'd. If Pods suffers his annual groin injury before the end of July, Juan Pierre might be an option. With Manny back, the Dodgers might be looking to move him.

Nah, 2009 needs its own identity. Gotta go with Gordon Beckham's selection of The Outfield's "Your Love."

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 05:08 PM) who the f*** is THAT? Matthew Broderick's wife, best known for playing the main character on Sex and the City. The best seats I had at the old ballpark were about 15th row behind the plate, back in 1984. Kittle crushed a shot into the LF upper deck and it looked like it was never coming back down. I still miss Old Comiskey. The upper deck seats were actually better than most of those in the lower deck. I had 30th row (or so) behind the plate at the new ballpark back in 2000, courtesy of my friend's girlfriend who worked in the front office. The seats were nice and all, but the best part was the tour of the facilities afterwards and we got to walk around on the field (I tried to make a call to the 'pen from the visitor's dugout). Also go to see Bernie Williams and Jose Valentin close up in the front office lobby. The best actual seats that I've had at the new ballpark were Club Section on the 3rd base side for one of the Cubs/Sox games back in '98. Nothing to write home about, but I got to meet Nancy Faust (and, unfortunately, Bruce Wolf as well) before the game.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 08:44 PM) I think a guy whose flying a bit under the radar here is Chris Getz. He’s taken some dramatic steps in refining his approach, and while ultimately, I don’t think his future is as an everyday starter for this team I see him as a solid big leaguer. I agree about Getz not getting the recognition that he deserves. He may not be the long-term everyday starter for the Sox but he has a couple of things going for him, at least in the short-term. The first is that nobody other than Fields can play 3B, and Fields appears to be on the outside looking in. Unless Kenny signs or trades for a veteran 3B, I don't see Beckham or Alexei taking Getz's spot at 2B. The second is that he's the speed- and defense-oriented "small ball"-type player that Ozzie loves. I think that there's a pretty good chance that Getz is still in the starting lineup next April.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 07:22 PM) The Outfield is to 2009 as Journey was to 2005. Nothing like cheesy 1980s power pop to rally a team. In all seriousness, the Sox have historically done well when they have a seasonal theme song ("Don't Stop Believing", "Who Let the Dogs Out?", etc.). And kudos to Beckham for the semi-obscure choice of song. I still have the Play Deep cassette that I purchased in junior high.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jun 29, 2009 -> 02:48 PM) Actually, when he played with the Cubs. He was a damn good doubles hitter. A bit stronger than Mark Grace. Grace has also been pretty vocal in his opinion of Sosa's HOF chances. And unlike Ryno, it's pretty obvious that he never liked Sosa.

At the risk of jinxing them, they appear to be turning a corner.

If the Sox continue to play like this, JD ain't going anywhere.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2009 -> 07:11 PM) The Dodgers series was one hell of a series against the best team in baseball. The last two series give me hope that this team *may* be turning a corner. [crosses fingers]