Lillian

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 08:28 PM) Kudos to Lillian for not falling back on the whole LH fascination and advocating for Alex Gordon, haha. (It's pretty amazing how quiet things have actually been on that front, compared to Cespedes and Upton. All you hear is/was what the Cardinals and KC SUPPOSEDLY offered him or initially wanted to offer him, but even that's pretty much unconfirmed. Lots of rumors.) Hey, I'd still prefer a left handed bat, but unfortunately the only one out there is Gordon, and I don't think that is realistic for this team. I hope that you understand my seeming obsession with that issue is primarily a function of the obvious dearth of LH pop, on recent Sox rosters.

Caulfield has reiterated a lot of what I posted earlier, and I still think they are valid points. I'm sort of torn between Upton and Cespedes. I'll be thrilled with either one of them, if that's what transpires.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 07:12 PM) I think it's a mistake to look at career stats . After all the guy isn't 22, 23, 24 any more. . I think it's best to look for trends . Last year he was bad vs. left handers and terribly streaky. Just look at his bating averages by month. June and July he was terrible. His OBP has gone down for 4 straight years. All that being said I wouldn't be at all upset if the Sox got him because he does have a good track record . I just like Cespedes and his AL pedigree more. You make a valid point about the trend, and I do worry about the A. L. factor. I'd also love Cespedes. Nevertheless, Upton has been pretty consistent, in his career, and he is young enough that we shouldn't expect age to be a factor, for a while.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) That's 2014 No, the chart, graph and figures I cited were for 2015

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 06:44 PM) I started watching some Upton highlights from last year and something jumped off the screen to me...he hit a ton of cheap homers. I looked up the stats and he was near the top of the list for lucky/cheap homers. This was one of the warning signs that people had regarding LaRoche and Abreu after 2014. Upton's average home run distance was 10 feet less in 2015 than 2014. He's a good player, but his power is his main tool and if that starts to fade, you're looking at a bad contract possibly. You might have a different perspective, after viewing this chart and graph: http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php...amp;type=hitter There actually were not very many "cheap" homers. His 3 shortest homers measured 360', 363'and 367'. He hit 15 of them over 400'. Perhaps you just happened to see videos of the few that were not legitimate "bombs".

Upton's Career Stats are remarkably consistent. Even his Inter-League numbers are very close to his performance against N. L. teams. The guy seems to hit righties and lefties about the same, whether at home, or on the road. Even where he bats in the lineup has had very little effect. All of that is very reassuring, especially regarding the concerns that some of us have expressed about acquiring National League players. If we could put him in the heart of the order and just pencil in his career numbers of .271 .352 .473 .825, the Sox really could be ready to compete for a couple of Post Season runs.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) Why are you so adamant about having a high obp guy behind Abreu? Obviously you want high obp guys everywhere but it's much more important to have one in front of him as opposed to behind him. It isn't so much a matter of having that high OBP behind Abreu, as it is having another high OBP in the heart of the order. At this point, Abreu is the only high OBP hitter, in the 3 through 5 spots. Frazier cannot be expected to fulfill that need. Even with all of his power, he has not been a high on base guy. La Roche we all know can't be counted on, and shouldn't even sniff the middle of the order. Laurie's OBP has not been good, so far. I actually prefer Melky batting more in the middle of the order, versus RHP, but his OBP is not that great either. I think this team needs a big bat, with an OBP of at least .340 to .350 to hit with Abreu and Frazier, in the heart of the order. That would make the offense very formidable and this team would be serious contenders. It probably wouldn't matter how much offense they would get from the bottom 3RD of the order, if they can score runs from the first 6 guys in the lineup. Eaton gets on base a lot, but after him, the only high OBP hitter on this roster is Jose. I'm afraid that will leave us all pretty frustrated.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 10:47 AM) RaBBit has said it, Nightengale has said it, Levine has said it, etc. They are in on the top 3. Teams seem to be falling off in terms of potential suitors, so I think the Sox have a good chance of getting one. I also would not mind seeing them end up with Parra, either. Good glove, not a power hitter but an overall good player that would be a sizable improvement over Avi at this point. I like him, but he doesn't fill the hole we have at clean up. I'm not satisfied with Frazier hitting there. I like him better at #5. The Sox need a power hitting, respectable OBP bat, behind Abreu. If they sign an outfielder, he should be that guy, not just "an overall good player". You can't get enough power and run production out of an outfield, made up of Melky, Eaton and Parra.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) Ha oh trust me I would love Cespedes. Not only do I think he's the best player but it would mean the most from a marketing standpoint since he was so visible last year with all that MVP talk once he got to the Mets. Then there's the Cuban Whatever it would end up being called pairing him with Abreu. Then start winning and it's Little Havana at the Cell every game. Would be a lot of fun. Add some Cuban drinks to the menu and Ricky Ricardo , Gloria Estafan music , have a Bongo Night giveaway and it's dancing in the aisles . "Don't Stop now, boys"

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 08:34 AM) Why can't NL players hit in the AL? Not sure I understand the logic behind this theory. None of us are saying that they can't hit in the A. L. However, some of us are skeptical. If it is indeed the case, then the pitching must simply be better, of course. I haven't studied this issue in depth. Can you cite a couple of recent examples which refute this notion? Which recent players have moved from the A. L. to the N. L. and struggled? Which N. L. players have moved to the A. L. and had better success than they had in Senior Circuit?

The more that I think about this issue of importing National League players, the more convinced I become that it is a significant risk, which should be avoided if possible. The Frazier deal is only for two years, and if he fails to live up to his N. L. career performance, the Sox can move on. However, signing Upton is another matter. He will require a long term commitment, as well as the loss of a draft pick. It seems like too great of a risk to add yet another N. L. player. Therefore, I'm even more convinced that Cespedes is the better choice.

Cespedes has not played any right field in the Big Leagues. If he is truly a better outfielder, even at that spot, then he's my choice. We know what Upton can do there, as that has been his regular position. I don't like the idea of either Melky or Eaton in RF, because their arms aren't suited for right field. That means Cespedes would likely be in right field. If the Sox could move Melky to DH, and use Cespedes in LF with Eaton in Center and Avi in Right, that would work. But of course, that would be contingent upon moving La Roche. Cespedes has the advantage of having played in the A.L., where he knows the pitchers and has a track record of success. With Upton, that is still a question. I'd love to see a recent study of how various players have faired, when switching Leagues. Some of us are a little skeptical, after the disappointing experience of our two Adams from Washington. Frazier's Inter-League stats don't provide much reassurance, and it would be catastrophic to discover that our new "saviors" at the hot corner and right field, can't perform up to their career standards, in the A. L. Adding another Cuban would be nice, especially if Alexei is not brought back. I get the sense that Abreu enjoys having his fellow countrymen on the team. Then there is the fan appeal, which I suspect greatly favors Yoenis. He's an exciting player, and the type who can put fans in the seats, which can't hurt, especially with all the hype we'll have to endure from the other side of town. Not having to give up the draft pick is another plus, and it would be quite a remarkable achievement for the front office to have been able to fill all of the holes, without giving up a single pick, or any of our top prospects. That would indeed be quite laudable, if they can pull it off. Although it was the N. L., you have to be impressed with how Cespedes went to the Big Apple, and seemed to put that team on his shoulders and carry them to the Post Season. The Sox could use some of that swagger. Well, I guess that I talked myself into choosing "El Talento". Vamos, Hahn. Por favor.

I've posted this elsewhere, but if La Roche can play well enough to be serviceable, he adds two positives: 1) He provides a back up, good defensive first baseman, in case of an injury to Abreu, and to spell him from time to time. 2) He could also be a left handed bat, who could pinch hit, especially in late inning match ups. As long as he is no longer needed as a middle of the order hitter, his left handed bat provides a little more balance to the lineup. He has to bat in the bottom 3RD of the order, behind Eaton, Cabrera, Abreu, Frazier, Upton/Cespedes, and Lawrie.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 11:56 PM) There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter. JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things. Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender. Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise. If your assessment of the financial condition of this organization is correct, then I want Erick Davis and a World Series.

Does anyone disagree that the remaining highest priority is an impact bat, with good defense, in the outfield? If so, then the question is simply this; Does the front office really intend to go for it this year, or not. If the answer to that question is also yes, then I think that there is a very good chance that they sign someone like Upton. Hahn had said that was one of his priorities. If it is the only one remaining, they are in good shape to accomplish it, as they have not taken on any burdensome contracts, so far in this off season. Lawrie and Frazier will both be free agents in two years, and neither has a very expensive current contract. They should be able to spend the money on that impact outfield bat.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 12:49 PM) Replacing Garcia and the lineup is going to look a whole lot different with the infielders we added and the new catching combination. Really if you replace him with Upton the real stinker is you still have LaRoche. You know that I am as unhappy with La Roche, as anyone here. However, if they add a decent bat to the outfield, La Roche's impact would be greatly minimized. He could bat in the bottom 3RD of the order, and at least he'd add a LH bat. If he hits in that spot, and only faces RH pitching, he could be serviceable with rather pedestrian numbers. I'd take a .240 to .250 average and .330 to .340 OBP, with 14 to 15 homers. That's not an unrealistic expectation.

Frazier represents a nice upgrade to the offense, but that OBP doesn't play well at the clean up spot. They still need one more big bat, to hit behind Abreu.

They accomplished several positive things: 1) Didn't spend any money. 2) Are taking on a very reasonable contract, both in money and years 3) Kept all of the most important prospects 4) Didn't hurt the defense 5) Acquired a middle of the order bat, if he can hit AL pitching better than his career history suggests. 6) Will maximize Lawrie's offense, which now becomes a big + for a second baseman 7) Kept all the draft picks, so far 8) They can now see if La Roche can provide some left handed pop, on a platoon basis, hitting 6TH If they sign a big OF bat, they could have a formidable offense. The question is; will they?

QUOTE (2Dbill @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 04:03 PM) Desperate times lead to desperate actions. Three teams from last year’s playoffs have or are projected to experience significant losses: Kansas City, the Cardinals and the Dodgers .the Royals and the Cardinals lost in the area where the sox also have a need-the outfield(I’m forgetting about Lackey as I think Heyward was a much bigger loss). The Dodgers lost big with Greinke . In the last few days the LA sports sites were talking about how they would have to settle for Cueto. Well that didn’t turn out too good for them either. Their fall back plan seemed to be to create a lights out relief back end with Chapman and Jansen and that fell thru .I think the Dodgers are getting desperate. I think we should see what the return would be for David Robinson. I would trade Robinson and Thompson to the Dodgers for Puig and Kiki Hernandez and one of their 1st round comp picks. I would sign Cespedes to a 5 year 1,112,000 (25/25/22/20/20) deal with an opt-out after year 2. I would sign Alexi Ramirez to a 1year 6.5million deal. I would trade Avi Garcia and Robinson Leyer to the Rockies for prospects 3rd base Ryan Mc Mahon and catcher Dom Nunez. I would trade Adam Engel to the New York Mets for 1st base prospect Dominic Smith. I would trade Mica Johnson to the Pirates for outfield prospect Harold Ramirez. I know people are going to say that the Puig trade is ridiculous- the Dodgers would never agree to it. But given the circumstances I’m not so sure. They seem to be petrified to trade any of their prospects. It seems Friedman thinks he is still in Tampa Bay. This would allow them to continue their plan of having a strong back end to their bullpen ( the only option they really have left). Robinson is also signed for three more years while Jansen is only signed for 2016. If Puig is as much of a problem as the rumors say it would solve that problem as well. There have been 3 trades so far this season which were considered significant overpays(Arizona for Miller,Boston for Smith and Huston for Giles) why can’t the dodgers be the fourth? I know I’m rubbing it in to ask for a comp pick but they may be desperate. On the sox side I think the influence of Abreu, Cespedes and Ramirez would do wonders for Puig. I am not signing Ramirez just for Puig. The more I thought about it the more I liked Ramirez in a part time role this year. The bullpen would be weaker but the daily lineup would be much improved and the starting pitching would be unaffected. In addition the sox would have 4 picks among the first 50 in next year’s draft. And by trading Robinson you free up the money for Cespedes as the efforts to unload Laroche seem to be going nowhere. Fantasy? I don't understand the motive or the feasibility of trading for a couple of 20 year old prospects. Can you elaborate on the rationale for trading Engel and Johnson for Dominic Smith and Harold Ramirez?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 08:27 AM) Putting our worst hitter in the 2 hole is such an unnecessary disadvantage. Why give that guy so many at bats? Why sandwich an automatic out between all of our run producers? You were onto something with the OBP -- that's really the most important skill for a 1 or 2 guy. You're right. Sanchez batting in the 2 hole is really more wishful thinking, on my part. It is where he as had his best success in the Minors, and if he matures into a decent MLB hitter, that is probably the best place in the lineup for him to hit. However, as you point out, it's too early to project that future success. Therefore, let's readdress the focus on finding that prototypical 2 hole hitter, who does not appear to be on the current Sox Roster.

Some of us have raised the issue of National League players moving to the American League, with less than stellar results. Here are Frazier's Inter-league stats from the last two years: AVG OBP SLG OPS .220 .264 .390 .655 (2015) .190 .250 .304 .554 (2014) Last year, all of his inter-league at bats were against our AL Central Division teams, which are both our primary opponents, and our competition. Although it's a small sample size, it isn't encouraging.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2015 -> 07:27 PM) As someone already mentioned, why doesn't Saladino fit what you're looking for? If the Sox don't acquire a SS, I'd be more comfortable trying Sanchez in the 2 hole, than Saladino. I like Tyler, but I don't think that he profiles well at that spot in the lineup. That is where Sanchez has regularly hit, and where he has had his best success. However, he would have to improve significantly, over his Big League performance. last year.

Are there any veteran short stops who fit my profile? Ideally, he would be a guy whom the Sox could acquire for a couple of years, until and if Anderson is ready to take over. An outstanding young prospect would likely cost too much in talent going back to the trading partner, and the Sox should not be looking for a long term solution at SS, with Anderson in the wings.

If the Sox can sign Upton, why not then focus their attention on finding a good fielding SS, who could bat in the 2 hole, and not cost a draft pick or anyone significant on the roster? I'd prefer that addition to trading for Frazier. Any candidates? I think the lineup would be fine with those additions: Eaton CF ???? SS (Profile: good bunter, hit and run threat, and decent OBP. Average and power not important) Abreu 1B Upton RF Melky LF Lawrie 3B La Roche DH Avila/Navarro C Sanchez 2B Avi and Thompson battle for the reserve OF spot. That team should be able to score some runs, and provide decent defense.

You all know how much I want a bonafide run producer at DH, to replace La Roche. However, if Abreu gets injured, who would play first base?