Lillian

Remember, Dunn was younger than La Roche, when he joined the Sox. He also had a more distinguished career. I'm not hopeful.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:21 AM) Hmmm, 1 year of LaRoche at 13M or Davis for 7/150M+. I'm glad we have LaRoche because I'm not interested in signing the next Adam Dunn for that amount of years and money. Oh yeah, the 7/150M that the Orioles offered was pulled off the table probably because Boras wants even more. Sorry but Davis is a bad idea. I'll take LaRoche and hope for the best, thank you. I don't view 1 year of LaRoche at 12.5M as anything to compare to 7/150M for Davis. One is a sunk cost, for basically a black hole, at a critical place in the lineup i.e; 1B/DH. The other is a close to market value deal, for one of the premier young sluggers in the game. The only reason to be happy about LaRoche's contract is that it only has one year to go. I wonder how many of us would hold that sentiment if Davis were signed to the proposed deal, in this discussion.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 06:07 AM) Lillian, I'm just not sure that outfield has enough pop. Right field is a big maybe with Avi and Trace. Easton could regress, maybe last year was an outlier. Plus any injury to Eaton, which we've seen before or Melky and it's curtains. I think Davis would be a great pickup, but I think we do need more before we get optimistic. I understand your point, however don't you think that the issue of from where the "pop" comes is much less important than how much pop the lineup has? I think that is acceptable, as long as you get positive contributions from players, at their respective positions. It seems like a reasonable gamble to expect one of Avi or Trayce to emerge as a productive outfielder. They both have a lot of talent. Once you insert an offensive producer like Davis into the lineup, the power production from the outfield becomes less important.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 06:38 AM) We're going to more than double the biggest contract in Sox history for yet another attempt at fixing the LH power problem? Not seeing it. Davis is essentially three times more expensive than Nelson Cruz, and he's not the type of player who will increase attendance by name alone, either. Finally, there's the fact JR isn't willing to tack another $13 million on top of that to dump LaRoche. Buying players at that age coming off contract drive seasons for six to eight year deals just isn't the Sox way...not even for Sox heroes or homegrown players. They want to roll the dice, it's going to have to be Puig, Cespedes, Gordon or Upton. Nelson Cruz was 5 years older than Davis will be, when he signed his contract with Seattle. Davis will be 30 in March. In today's market, he should be worth $25 Million per year, on a 7 year deal. The Orioles offered $150 Million, which Davis turned down and which Baltimore has since withdrawn. If the Sox could get him for $175 Million, for 7 years, which would represent his age 30, through 36 years, it seems "reasonable" in today's market. The organization has no prospect who could realistically be projected to fill the need for a big, left handed power bat. If the Sox want to compete with the Cubs, for fan support, that is the sort of move that JR will have to make. The final year of La Roche's deal, is relatively of little significance, when contemplating that kind of financial commitment. Who cares what they do with him. Release him, if they have to.

The guy I want is still Chris Davis. He is exactly what this team needs, a left handed power bat, with a high OBP, and a history of success in the A.L. You bat him right behind Abreu and the offense becomes very respectable. I know that there are statistical studies that refute the conventional wisdom regarding "protection" for other hitters in the lineup, but you cannot convince me that Abreu would not see a lot more decent pitches, hitting in front of Davis, vs. La Roche. The more talked about route of acquiring an outfielder, to add more offense, doesn't make as much sense. The Sox have outfield depth. Two of our better hitters are outfielders. Melky in LF, either Eaton or Thompson in CF, and either Avi or Thompson in RF provide an acceptable level of both offense and defense. Then too, there is the emerging prospect of Adam Engel, joining the Big League club, in a couple years. I understand that Davis would cost a draft pick, and that his contract would be a huge commitment, but he is the one impact bat that could really transform the terrible offense the Sox put on the field last year, into a good offense. With a middle of the order consisting of Abreu, Davis, Cabrera and Lawrie, the team could afford to live with light hitting from Saladino and Sanchez as their keystone combo. They have a solid leadoff man in Eaton, and catching should not be the deep hole that it was with Flowers. The defense would be solid, as well. Keeping the pitching in tact, with a significantly improved ability to score runs, would give the Sox a realistic shot at the playoffs, and once in the Post Season, you have to like a team with 3 top starters like Sale, Quintana and Rodon. Then too, there is the appeal of adding a hitter who can bring fans to the South Side. Davis is that kind of player.

I view it this way: 1) He is a solid improvement at 3RD, over what we had last season. 2) His contract is very reasonable, for the next 2 years, and then Trey Michalczewzski can take his place 3) He has enormous upside, and could be a star 4) His acquisition did not cost any top prospects, or create any holes. There is no reason not to gamble on his character issues, which involve intensity and confidence. Those are positive attributes, even if he does seem to overdo both, at times.

The problem is that he will likely not be able to sustain that defensive prowess for the latter years of a 10 year contract. A good hitter might be able to produce big offensive production in his 30's, but elite defense is a little tougher.

$200 million for 7 to 10 years seems like an overpay to me. He is not an elite offensive player. Great defense in RF is not that hard to find. Moreover, he is not the solution to our need for a clean up hitter. But then, I've said that already. I'd rather spend that money on Chris Davis, DH him and put Trayce Thompson in RF for the defense. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/orio...150million.html

For how many years is that $200 million offer?

The only way that I'd hold out any real hope of a bounce back from Adam, is if he was injured last season. If he was healthy last year, it seems unreasonable to expect him to do significantly better, at age 36. Then too, there is the pattern of guy coming off a solid career in the NL, specifically with Washington in his last several seasons, before coming to the Sox. Dunn was much younger, and he was even worse, in his first year with the Sox.

Perhaps we aren't sufficiently addressing the real issue: Is it reasonable to expect LaRoche to have a bounce back season, or has his age already spelled the end of his effectiveness? I still don't know how much credibility to attach to the claims that he was injured last season. If that were the case, you could consider keeping him, as a DH, and just moving him further back, in the order. Providing that he could put up respectable offensive numbers, at least in a platoon role, that might be acceptable. Go get a potent middle of the order bat to play RF, in place of Avi, and go with a lineup like this: Eaton CF Melky LF Abreu 1B ????? RF (preferably a LH hitter, but any solid run producer) Lawrie 3B LaRoche DH vs. RHP Avila/Navarro C Saladino SS Sanchez 2B (I would love to see Carlos eventually emerge as an effective 2 hole hitter. That is where he has had his best Minor League success}

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 02:27 PM) It's ok to root for your team, but I laugh whenever we make moves in the winter people assume they are GOOD moves. Lawrie is what he is (cliche). He's not going to emerge as a star. What makes you so sure? Do most players peak at 25?

We all understand that he won't turn 26 until next month. Sure, he's been in the League a while, but most players with talent, will get better and make adjustments, as they come into the prime years of their careers. Yes, I know that Beckham failed to do that, but isn't he really more the exception? I think that Lawrie will make an adjustment, to some degree, to the steady diet of breaking balls, and improve his hitting. My biggest questions are; Does this organization have the right coaches to help help him, and is he coachable?

Which circumstance would make the Sox appear more desperate to move Adam; their current stated need to move him, so that they can pursue another bat, or the need to dump him, because there is no place to play him, because they have already acquired another bat? If they signed Upton, couldn't they privately suggest to other GM's that their intention is to play Upton in RF, Eaton in CF and Melky in LF, and continue to use LaRoche as a DH? They could also tell them that they intend to keep Trayce as a 4TH outfielder, and send Avi to Charlotte. As I said earlier, if they miss out on acquiring a much needed middle of the order hitter, because of whatever part of Adam's last year of salary they will have to pay, that seems awfully short sighted to me. In this age of committing to long term $15 to 25 million deals, I just don't understand how the $12.5 million, or whatever portion thereof, which they have to eat, in a trade, should be an obstacle to acquiring another bat. I'd like to see them sign the guy, and worry about what to do with LaRoche later. But maybe that puts the front office in too difficult of a bargaining position. That's why I pose the question.

It's a minor point, but I just looked at his career stats vs. our division rivals: Tigers .293 .341 .585 Twins .322 .333 .411 Royals .277 .324 .394 Indians .177 .257 .226 Just FYI

Project his "Away" stats from last year, over a full season, and you get a pretty decent offensive player: AVG OBP SLG OPS .272 .299 .429 .728 With 15 doubles and 10 homers, in just 75 games. That would give him 30 doubles and 20 HR's. I don't like the strike outs and low OBP but it sure beats what we had last season.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 08:16 PM) Now trade for Frazier and sign Cespedes and Upton. Don't overdo it. Why do the Sox need all of those guys? One big bat like Upton should be enough to fix this offense, and we keep all of our pitching.

That is hard to believe. I hope that's the deal. Wow!! Just Wow!! Now, they can spend money on one big bat, and just go with Saladino and Sanchez as their keystone combo. They shouldn't have to trade any one. Just sign a middle of the order bat, and they have a respectable offense.

Many of you seem to object to the fact that Frazier is only controlled for 2 more years. I actually view Frazier's 2 years of control as a positive. He is very affordable this year, at $7.5 million, and arbitration eligible next season. That gives the team a very desirable contract, with no long term commitment. Hopefully, the Sox would have Trey Michalczewski ready to take his place in 2018, when Frazier would opt for free agency, and a big payday. I love getting guys in their prime, playing for a big contract. That sure beats paying an aging player, big money, for past performance. Why not give up Anderson for him? Anderson does not project to be an elite SS. I want a ++ defender for that position. Ditto for Lawrie, except he is not as good of a hitter, at least not yet.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 04:07 PM) What if the Sox got Lawrie, Frazier, CarGo, and Upton within the next 24 hours? This forum would explode lol. I am confident that scenario will not transpire, within the next 24 hours, or the next 24 years!!!! The Sox don't have the assets, the money or the need for anything so draconian.

At age 21, in 69 games at AAA Vegas, he hit .353 with 24 doubles, 6 triples and 18 homers. His slugging % was .661 I don't care if it was the PCL, that's very impressive. Project those numbers over a full 162 game season and you're talking about 50 doubles, 13 triples and 40 HR's. No wonder he was so cocky. That kind of production would do a lot to boost anyone's confidence. That's why he was such a highly rated prospect, as these rankings demonstrate: Prospect Ratings by Baseball America: Pre-2009: Rated #81 Prospect Pre-2010: Rated #59 Prospect Pre-2011: Rated #40 ProspectProspect Ratings by BaseballProspectus.com: Pre-2009: Rated #57 Prospect Pre-2010: Rated #99 Prospect Pre-2011: Rated #57 Prospect

The rumor which speculates that it's Avi, Engel and Thompson makes no sense. The A's are said to be looking for pitching. Moreover, they would not want 3 outfielders, and the Sox do not have enough outfield depth to be trading away 3 of their better prospects.

Since Lawrie will be a free agent in 2 years, the front office may be thinking that he would be an adequate stop gap, until Trey Michalczewski is ready. That would seem like a reasonable plan, providing the Minor League players, in the deal, are not top tier prospects. That would allow the Sox to spend the money on a middle of the order bat, filling another hole. That is not to say that Lawrie wouldn't be a desirable long term solution, but if he performs well, over the next 2 seasons, he would probably be too expensive, as a free agent. Then there is also the possibility of extending him early.

Some of you may find this article interesting: http://www.athleticsnation.com/2014/11/30/...scouting-report

Given that he will be a free agent in two years, he may not cost as much talent, as most of you are speculating. Let's hope not.