Lillian
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Everything posted by Lillian
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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:56 PM) He had a hand / hammate injury, if I recall. He never complained about it, but its the type of injury that could really drain / suck the power out of your swing, imo. And its the type of injury that I'd think you couldn't play through (nor would it heal without significant rest). Thank you for the Info. I was not aware of that injury. Now my question is; Why was he playing? He should have been benched. Now, I'm even more disappointed in this team. If he couldn't contribute because of his health, he should not have been left in a position to spoil the team's chances of being competitive. He was a "black hole" in the cleanup spot. Simply inexplicable!!
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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:42 PM) I would bank of LaRoche being closer to his career averages than last year's production. I'd bet the same thing from Melky as well. Would bet more on Melky, but LaRoche is going to be a much better player next year, imo (I think that injury and just the whole mental impacts of the struggles really nailed his season). That or he'll be cut by May because it will be extremely evident that he's no longer capable of playing in the majors (and fell off a cliff due to age). I hope you're right. Just how bad was that injury? I don't remember much talk of his being hurt. But then, I missed a lot of game broadcasts. The only injury I remember was the knee problem, which was in September, as I recall. He was awful all year, before that.
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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) Hah, get ready to be disappointed because if he's on threat, he'll like be batting 4,5 or 6. I could live with La Roche batting 6TH, if he shows signs of improvement, over last season, which I doubt, given that he has turned 36, already. At any rate, I don't consider 6TH, the "heart" of the order.
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QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:14 PM) I think he's of a #2. Only time he's a 3 hitter is if Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols are batting before and after him. If he were in a lineup with those guys, he would still bat somewhere other than 3RD, probably 2ND. Cabrera and Pujols would be 3RD and 4TH. Perhaps on another team, he could bat 3RD, but this Sox team is not going to have 8 or 9 good hitters. They better be productive 1 - 5
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QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:01 PM) Heyward has decent pop and gets on base at a good clip. He could bat 3rd with Abreu being the cleanup hitter you're looking for. Do you really think that Heyward is a #3 hitter? I'm sorry, but I can't get enthused about that.
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QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:05 PM) Eaton Heyward Abreu LaRoche Cabrera ? I imagine your 3B would be in there somewhere Please don't tell me that you would spend all that money on a guy like Heyward, and then have a lineup with Adam LaRoche batting cleanup!!!! I don't want to see him anywhere near the heart of the order.
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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:45 PM) Not saying you don't acquire someone who fits well in the cleanup spot, but OF defense is far important in my opinion. For instance, Upton would probably be a more prototypical 4 hole hitter but Heyward would be a much better pickup due to his elite defense. Both are very nice bats, obviously. OK, so what does the first 6 spots in your lineup look like, with Heyward?
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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:28 PM) Upton, but that's a narrow way to analyze the situation. Perhaps, but I think that a cleanup hitter remains the biggest priority. Therefore, the guy they get better fill that hole. If you get a guy who is going to hit somewhere else in the lineup, who bats cleanup, behind Abreu?
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If the Sox spend the kind of money needed to acquire someone like Upton, Heyward or Gordon, that would preclude any other big signings. Therefore, unless they are willing to trade a starting pitcher, the guy whom they sign better be their much needed clean up hitter. Who would fill that role better, Upton or Heyward?
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QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) not until they decide what to do with laroche contract. Even if they have to absorb the total cost of that contract, they have to replace his bat, or they are not going to have a winning season. I sure hope that the front office is not going to make a move contingent upon being able to find a taker for LaRoche.
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I'm still betting that the first priority is to find a clean up hitter. I hope so.
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Do I understand correctly that Puig's contract allows him to opt out, and into arbitration, after his 3rd year of service time? His service time will reach 3 years, during the upcoming season. That would make him just like any player on the normal "free agency clock," and nullify, what would otherwise have been, a very affordable contract. Nevertheless, he would still be quite affordable, for the next 4 years. I like the suggestion that Abreu be consulted regarding Puig's character. If Jose were confident that Puig wouldn't become a club house cancer, that would be very reassuring.
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QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Nov 12, 2015 -> 07:21 AM) I think we double down on pitching and copy the Royals by investing in the bullpen and trade for Giles from PHI. I also think we sign Ian Desmond. Maybe not to play SS, but to play 3B, 2B, or DH. Maybe even on a 1 or 2 year rebuild value deal like 1/18 or 2/34. He could be looking at a 200 million contract next offseason or two if he has a season or seasons anything like his previous ones, and the South Side is a good spot to do that, potentially as a DH against LHP. Focus on offense half his games. Not sure he wants to lock himself into a 4 year deal for 50-70 million from a limited market when he could be looking at hundreds of millions and more choices on where to play. Based on the following article, a short term deal might be very appealing to Desmond: http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2015/9/28/9409...mond-free-agent Such an arrangement could be ideal for the Sox, as well. Hahn could simply tell him that the Sox understand that he had an uncharacteristically mediocre season, and that they would give him an opportunity to rebuild his true value. They could even guarantee him two years, with an opt out in the 2ND year. What would Desmond have to lose? Let him name his price, within reason. We would be getting a guy who is still in his prime, without having to make a long term commitment. In fact, I'd like to see another player, or two, in a similar circumstance, signed to deals like that. It sure beats giving guys at the end of their careers, long term, exorbitant contracts.
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Fangraphs Free Agent Predictions-Dave Cameron.
Lillian replied to Y2Jimmy0's topic in Pale Hose Talk
QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 6, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) Here's the same thing basically from Baseball Prospectus: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=27844 The writer does his predictions and has a random computer generator as well. The computer has the White Sox signing Justin Upton, Chris Davis, and Howie Kendrick. Okay then. If the front office could make that dream come true, they could skip Kendrick. Upton and Davis would make the Sox offense formidable enough, that they could live with Sanchez at 2ND, in order to solidify the defense. -
Oh yes, of course. It's been a long time. Or, maybe it's just Alzheimers. I'm just kidding, although I'm old enough, that it could be true.
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Why did they just say that Jack Morris pitched the last complete game in the World Series? The Sox pitched 4 in a row in 2005.
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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) I'm sure every front office has an off season plan that they try to follow but so many things aren't in their control that they have to have options and back up's plans for everything. At least I assume the good ones do. It doesn't haapen often that you print out a list and check off the needs in order 1, 2, 3, or A,B,C. What happens if B falls through, what then? Do you pass up C to do something differently for the B position? What if you can't get A? Do you throw the plan out because another team 'suddenly' says, 'we've got so and so available are you interested?' It's not easy being a G.M. in this sport. See what I mean. Mark The off season last year clearly seemed to consist of a prioritized check list, which Hahn proceeded to check off. Unfortunately, he made a couple of bad choices. Moreover, unless you intend to meet every objective, with unlimited resources, wouldn't that almost necessitate that you prioritize?
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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) 1. 1A. 1B. 1C.....Acquire talent by any means available...buying free agents, signing international players, rule 5 draft, solid trades. Really when you get down to it the Sox still have so many needs that filling any position has got to help overall. So while I understand trying to focus on a particular area or areas, I'll take a talent upgrade anyplace. You can usually move some players around to other spots if needed. Mark Is that the way the front office will approach it? I thought they try to be more specific than that. But then, I have no idea how they do it.
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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) 1. 1A. 1B. 1C.....Acquire talent by any means available...buying free agents, signing international players, rule 5 draft, solid trades. Really when you get down to it the Sox still have so many needs that filling any position has got to help overall. So while I understand trying to focus on a particular area or areas, I'll take a talent upgrade anyplace. You can usually move some players around to other spots if needed. Mark Is that the way the front office will approach it? I thought they try to be more specific than that. But then, I have no idea how they do it.
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Let's try to focus this discussion on priorities. Would you guys please list the top 4 to 6 objectives, in the offseason, in order of priorities? Please also make some specific recommendations. Try to do it without creating new holes, especially in the pitching. You can surmise mine, but here they are, in order of priorities, but minus the solutions: 1) Find a power bat to complete the middle of the order. 2) Find a new SS to play solid defense, and bat second 3) Resign Albers 4) Find a good defensive third baseman, who can contribute on offense 5) Improve offensive production, behind the plate, without diminishing the defense and handling of the staff 6) Dump most of La Roche's salary I left out the qualifying offer to Shark, as that is a given. I also omitted retaining the starting staff. OK. Your turn, gentlemen.
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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:38 AM) Every team has black holes in their lineup. So long as those players produce defensively, its not a huge problem. Very few teams have potent lineup from 1-9. The Sox can live with Sanchez and Flowers in their lineup. I am no fan of Flowers, but he is a league average catcher. The catching position around baseball is pitiful. I see no reason to play Olt. I'd rather Saladino play 3B. I thought Olt's glove was pretty medicre at best...at least Saldino can throw some leather. But I am pretty much convinced the Sox will have a 3B on their roster next year who is not currently there and one that will be batting between 3-6. Oh, I hope so!! Please.
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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) Lillian: With respect to you. Flowers is a black hole and no, no, no ,no to Olt. Still with four gigantic holes in the lineup offensively...just my opinion. Mark I agree with your assessment of most of the holes. The difference is that I don't see the need to fill all of them. If the bottom third of the lineup consists of 3 offensive "holes," I don't view that as fatal. Olt, Flowers and Sanchez would be those 3 players. A more realistic goal is to make the top 6 spots in the lineup capable of scoring enough runs to support a solid pitching staff. The bottom 3 guys in the lineup do need to be plus defenders, but I would be satisfied with that. Moreover, I see upside potential in the offense of Olt and Sanchez. Regarding Olt; he has never really had a chance. I've always agreed with what the great Ted Williams said: "It take most guys about 1,000 Major League at bats, to figure it out.
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I hope you guys know that I was being sarcastic. That's just the impression I get reading the pessimism on this site.
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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) That SS is not on the market right now, that we know of... Cespedes, Upton, Chris Davis, Heyward and Gordon (the latter two not clean-up types anyway) are going to cost $100 million and up. Good luck getting JR to shell out after this year. Next, counting on Flowers, Thompson, Olt and almost a 100% healthy team again next year is dubious at best. Foolish, at worst. Those three, along with Sanchez, are lucky to be bench players on a real playoff team. Well then, I guess there is little hope of turning this team into a contender.
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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 12, 2015 -> 09:26 PM) When you are as bad at defense, fielding and base running as the Sox are you have to compensate by outscoring your opponent (for example the 1977 White Sox). Keep in mind the Sox are going to lose Shark a guy who if nothing else gave you innings and had some, repeat some good games. You are assuming Johnson can fill that void...maybe he can...and maybe he can't. Danks had a remarkable second half for a guy with a bad arm. The odds of that happening again? No one can say but I wouldn't bet your life that he can repeat it. And if the Sox decide to trade Q then what? So basically the only real constants you have in the rotation right now are Sale and Rodon, if Q stays that's three. How many teams made the playoffs with three starters? Let me give you another example. In 2009 Kenny decided that the Sox rotation was storong enough with Buehrle, Floyd and Danks at the top so that he could gamble with 40% of it being filled with a beat up Jose Contraras and a pre steroid Bartolo Colon. That didn't work out to well did it? Same situation here if you think the Sox could get by with three starters and 'hope' there's that word again that Danks or Johnson or both can produce. It could happen, and it also could blow up in their faces. So you either go out and have to get pitching (which is a tough get today) or compensate by scoring say six runs a game. I never said the Sox had to have great hitters 1-9, no team has that. On a good team Sanchez would be welcome to hit #9 regardless of what he'd produce offensively because he seems to be a skilled defender. What the Sox do need, and in typical Sox luck, they basically aren't available are good hitters / power bats for DH, catcher, a corner outfield spot and third base. That's four gaping holes which honestly I don't think they could fill even if JR gave the go ahead to raise the payroll by a gigantic amount (which I'm confident he won't do...) The Sox are between a rock and a hard place and I don't know if they can find a way out. That's why I'd like to see them blow it up and start over but to do that you have to bring in skilled talent evaluators or you'd just be spinning your wheels (like they are already doing under Kenny Williams) Mark Just a few comments in response to yours: 1) It appears that Danks has slowly, but steadily, been gaining strength in his shoulder. His velocity was back to the low 90's and combined with the change up, which he has refined, his second half success may not be a fluke. He has become a better pitcher, out of necessity, during the time that he lost so much velocity. At this point, I think he is a decent bet to be a very solid 4TH or 5TH starter, who can provide a quality start most of the time. Erik Johnson is likely capable of being the 5TH guy. I think Fulmer may follow Sale and Rodon in coming quickly, even if only in the Pen. The Sox are in the enviable position of not really needing to add any pitching. 2) Find a potent clean up hitter to DH, and the offense should be vastly improved over the pathetic output they got from that spot in the order last season. 3) Don't exercise the $10 Million option on Alexei, and find a slick fielding SS, who can do a credible job in the "2 hole" of the order. They don't need an All Star there, but someone who can hit behind the runner, lay down a bunt and be a plus fielder. I'd prefer a veteran, as Anderson could be ready soon. 4) Give Olt a shot at 3RD. He is a capable defender with huge power potential. 5) Leave Flowers behind the plate, as the pitching staff seems to flourish with him there, and the pitchers like throwing to him. 6) If Thompson can beat out Avi in RF, the outfield defense should be fine with Melky in LF, Eaton in CF and Trayce in RF. Infield defense would be fine with Olt at 3RD, a new good defensive SS and Sanchez at 2ND. 7) In conclusion, I see two holes, not 4. Just get that big bat to DH and a good defender at SS, who can hit in the 2 hole. What's wrong with that plan?