Lillian

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 08:51 AM) Not sure if you are aware, but he hadn't even started switch-hitting until during he 2013 season. Give it time. That is interesting. Wow, he just started to switch hit!!! I did check his split stats at Kannapolis, and while they were still better from the right side, they weren't as dramatically different. If he has been able to make as much progress as he has, just learning to hit from the left side, that is very encouraging. This guy must be a pretty gifted athlete. The scouts rave about his defense. Has anyone seen him play? How is his arm?

In looking at Rondon's splits, it appears that he may not be suitable as a switch hitter. His performance at Winston Salem, albeit in a limited sample size, was pretty good batting from his natural, right side: .303/.352/576. However, from the left side, he was totally inept, in a larger sample size: .220/.297/.242. He managed just 3 extra base hits, in 132 at bats. Does anyone have any split stats for him, while he was with Kannapolis? If he is really that much better of a hitter, from the right side, maybe he should consider giving up switch hitting. Of course, he is still very young, and may improve. However, he could also be wasting his development time as a strictly RH hitter. I wonder how the other guys on the team did vs. RH pitching. I'm going to see if it was partially due to facing a lot of really tough RH pitchers. The kid is such a good defensive SS, that it wouldn't take much improvement at the plate to make him a top prospect.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 06:06 AM) The key component to hitting bad pitches as it is with any pitches is to be able to not swing and miss and as we have seen over the years the strikeout rate is rising dramatically which makes VMart such an anomaly. He was the only player in the ML to walk more than he K'ed. Swinging and missing is only part of the problem. Isn't it also trying to do something with a pitch, which doesn't lend itself to the hitters intent? That's what I mean by the willingness to take an outside pitch, the other way, to the opposite field.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 08:16 PM) I have no idea what you just said . But the article tells me something I didn't know . VMart is a great bad ball hitter. The rest sort of confirms what I saw with my own eyes and with his stats. There are absolutely 0 signs of decline at the moment. I could point to LaRoche's last 2 years of production against lefties as a sign of decline but nothing pops up for VMart. Reference to Lillian : I don't think that particular talent can be taught , because there are guys who K a ton with pitches in the zone let alone out of the zone. But maybe there is something in his approach that can be taught like when to look for certain pitches and in what zones. I'd like to see which pitches he is the most successful at hitting out of the zone . Maybe it's that he's learned to recognize, for instance, pitches that will be below the strike zone and zeros in on pitches between knee high and belt high and what zone to look for them . So if he's looking inside or outside he can still react to a ball even off the plate because it's part of the area he's zoning in on in his head thereby eliminating 75% other zones. But regardless if pitch recognition could be taught or how to be a smart disciplined hitter there would be a lot less K's and Tank would be a superstar. Isn't a key component of being able to hit "bad pitches," the willingness to hit the ball where it's pitched? For example; going the other way, on an outside pitch. There are a lot of base hits in those kinds of pitches, but not if the batter tries to pull them. I'm reminded of Adam Dunn. It was always very frustrating to me to watch him take outside pitches, which he could have easily hit to the, virtually undefended, left side. A hitter with poor discipline tries to pull that pitch, and rolls over on it, for a ground out, to the pull side. Often, Dunn did demonstrate good plate discipline by taking that pitch for a ball. However, he could have had a double, by simply taking the pitch the other way. Moreover, by not trying to pull the ball, there is more time to recognize the speed, location and movement of the pitch. That extra time helps offset any loss of bad speed, which comes with age. Perhaps that is what Victor does, and at least in part, why he is such a great hitter.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 04:10 PM) We don't know about Rodon. Noesi, if he repeats, is fine as a #5. They need 2 more 3/4 types. And going into a season with exactly 5 is foolhardy. There will be injuries. It's also another reason not to trade the pitching prospects we do have (esp for declining/mediocre veterans). You need a consistently productive pipeline of young pitching. This roster, with no DH, no LF, uncertainty at 2B, dubious D at 3rd, missing 2 starters and whatever in the pen is not a .500 roster. LF is the real challenge here, in my eyes. Yes, but I thought that we have been debating how to use the significant payroll flexibility to fill those holes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) I totally disagree with this. This roster is 2 good relievers away from still being 5 games under .500 in my eyes. So, you don't think that Sale, Quintana, Rodon and whomever else they use for the #3 and #4 starters, comprise even a .500 starting staff, providing the bullpen doesn't throw away quality starts? I know that Rodon may not be able to provide 30 plus starts, nevertheless I just don't have that little confidence in our starters. Hell, even Danks can give you quality starts, in about 60% of his outings.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 03:31 PM) This is where I often disagree with Greg. This roster is 2 good relievers from a .500 team. Yes, however one of those two may already be on the roster, with Bassitt. Perhaps even both, if Montas is used in the Pen. Moreover, finding relievers should be easier and less expensive than finding middle of the order bats, or starters.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 03:07 PM) I agree. Whether they can get it done is another question. Here is an article the saber guys might like: http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2014/11/5/71...defying-outlier Very interesting article. Thanks for posting it. I've always contended that there are a lot of base hits, in pitches out of the strike zone, providing a hitter is willing to hit the ball where it's pitched. A great "bad ball" hitter is a tremendous asset to an offense. It presents a significant challenge even to a pitcher with great command. who may be able to hit his spot, but the hitter can still make good contact. What a great technique for young hitters to try to emulate? Maybe Victor would be able to help some of our young hitters, especially Garcia. That's another intangible that argues for signing him.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) Jose Fernandez, Carols Gonzalez, LoMo, Pedro Alvarez, and Jay Bruce. That list is very uninspiring. I would prefer a 37 year old VMart, in his second year of the contract, to any of those guys.

Hahn has stated that the Sox are targeting a left handed, middle of the order bat. If they do not sign V. Martinez, or any other free agent this off season, whom would they target for 2016? The only one who might be available is Chris Davis. There certainly is no one within the organization, who might fill that void. Is there someone I'm missing?

Thanks for the reassurances. Why would they even bother wasting a roster spot?

I sure hope that you guys are right. I know it' early, and it's just a gut feeling. As I posted a couple of days ago, Shuck doesn't look like a very good player. The moment the Sox acquire someone better to play the outfield, I'll be relieved.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) If so no need to pursue Aoki. Not sure how much I like it, but I'm beginning to think that they acquired Shuck to be the regular left fielder. Maybe they intend to platoon him with Danks. Oddly enough, Shuck seems to hit lefties better, even though he's a left handed hitter Danks has been pretty decent vs. RHP, and is still considered the best defensive outfielder in the organization. If that's the plan, I wish they would move Avi to LF, when Danks starts, as he is unquestionably a better defender.

For those of you who advocate not spending big now, but rather continuing to rebuild, with an eye toward 2016, exactly what would you do? Who would you try to acquire now? Who would you target for 2016?

If the Sox are going to compete, they must have one really potent, middle of the order, left handed bat. Hitting RH pitching is always of greater value than hitting lefties, simply because there are so many more of them. In the American League, and particularly in the Central Division, the Sox will arguably have most of the best lefties in Sale, Quintana and an emerging Rodon. It makes little sense to have a lineup full of right handed hitters, with most of the good southpaws in the League, on your staff. Whether or not you agree is less important than the fact that R. Hahn has openly stated this need for a potent left handed bat. There is simply no better option available to fill that need than Victor Martinez. The arguments have already been eloquently made for signing him, including the payroll flexibility and draft protection that makes his acquisition feasible. One of the arguments against signing him has been the need to fill other holes, and the inability of the Sox to contend without first doing so. I agree in principle with the position that it only makes sense to acquire V Mart, if the Sox can contend. In fact, Martinez himself has indicated that he only wants to play for a contender. The issue for me is whether or not the front office can fill the other holes this season. Many of you have expressed concerns about needing another outfielder. Filling that hole may not be that difficult. The Sox would not need a big offensive threat at that position. With Abreu and Martinez as the 3 and 4 hitters, Eaton leading off, the on base ability of C. Gillaspie, the solid offensive contributions of A. Garcia and Alexei, they could get by with a good defensive right fielder, with a good arm and decent on base skills. That would enable them to move Garcia to LF, where his raw defensive skills would not be a liability. Remember, Avi does at least possess good speed and a strong arm. It appears that Hahn has had interest in Aoki for that role. I first thought that Shuck might be that kind of guy, but the more I read about him the less convinced I am. Aoki is intriguing because he profiles as a good 2 hole hitter as well. The problem is that he is not very good vs RH pitching. However, someone like him, with reverse splits, would be adequate, and not that expensive, or hard to find. You would think that a team like Seattle, seeking a right handed power bat, might be willing to trade a good defensive right fielder, for Viciedo. I don't think that it matters from which side of the plate that outfielder bats. With Martinez in the middle of the lineup, the need for the left handed hitter would be filled. Someone suggested Saunders, and that would be fine, if Seattle were willing to make that trade. Then there is always the international pool of talent. Again, the Sox do not need a big bat in the outfield. The bullpen is a big concern, but with the additions of Bassitt, one good left hander, Montas and Cleto the pen could well become an asset, rather than the liability it was in 2014. After all, while they lost Lindstrom and Jones, the Sox did witness the emergence of Putnam and Petricka as solid set up guys. J. Guerra also looks like he's back, and can be counted upon. Of course, they will have to find a closer, but they do have candidates, including the aforementioned Montas and Cleto. That brings up another issue. The Sox record was much worse than the teams overall effort, due to all of the games which the bullpen blew. How many times did Sale and Quintana give the Sox a great chance to win, only to see the pen implode? Fix the pen, and the won/loss column would look dramatically different. So, in summary: Sign V. Martinez? Find a good defensive R.F. with the ability to get on base and provide a little speed. Sign a #3 RH Starter Sign one good LH reliever That should be within the budget of the front office, and could very well put a contender on the field this coming season. Providing management could accomplish those other goals, I'd vote to try to sign Martinez. For me the question is; Would V Mart consider signing with the Sox, not should they offer him a lucrative contract. So, what would I offer him, if it were my decision (not necessarily my money)? I'd offer him what I speculated it would take to sign him; 4 years and $70 Million.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 07:41 PM) If that is what it is, then I think the Sox should pass. I think he will be cheaper than that. We'll see. I just think that is what it will take to get him to leave Detroit. These free agent signings usually cost more than expected.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) MLB Network Radio @MLBNetworkRadio · 8m 8 minutes ago .@Tigers OF JD Martinez tells "Inside Pitch" he's talked to Victor Martinez, VMart says he wants to come back to DET if their offer is close If he sincerely wants to return to the Tigers, they may sign him for the 4 years, $60 Million, that the N. Y. Post predicts. However if he signs elsewhere, I will be surprised if it is less than 4 years, $70 Million. I would guess $20 Million for each of the first two years, and $15 Million, for each of the last two years.

For those speculating about what it will take to sign V. Martinez, it might be interesting to note what some of the other great hitters are going to be getting paid in their late 30's, and beyond: Age 36 -39 Albert Pujols 25M, 26M, 27M, 28M, Plus 29M at 40, 30M at 41 Robinson Cano 24M each year, plus 24M at 40 Miguel Cabrera 30M, 30M, 30M, 32M, plus 32M at 40 with vesting options for 32M for two more years if top 10 MVP Given that Victor is the only really great left handed hitter in this year's free agent market, I would guess that it will take at least $20 million, per year for the first 3 years, with something close to that for the 4TH. I know that he is pretty much strictly a DH, but he is a switch hitter, and last year helps him make the case that he is aging well. Please don't assume that any of this suggests that I'm advocating signing him to that kind of contract. I'm simply speculating about what it might take.

He looked like he might profile as an Adam Eaton type, when I first started looking into his career. You know, high pitch count, good OBP, good speed and defense. Then I read this: http://monkeywithahalo.com/2013-articles/j...hink-he-is.html That wasn't very reassuring, at all.

You're all going to love this: Why not consider Grady "you know who" for LF? He would be cheap, and probably settle for a one year contract, in order to have another chance to prove he can still play. If you take into account the 3 years away from baseball, he actually started to produce pretty well, when he got regular playing time, in the second half. In 121 at bats in July and August, he hit .305 with a .354 OBP and a .463 slugging %. He only got one plate appearance per game in half of the 20 games, in which he played in September. That limited playing time couldn't have helped him much, in trying to regain his form. All in all, his first season back, after such a long absence from the game, was somewhat encouraging. I think he'd be a reasonable gamble, on a one year deal. If they signed that big LH bat to DH, the Sox could get by inexpensively with Sizemore on a one year deal, to fill the other outfield spot. That would leave the rest of the money to obtain a RH starter and bullpen help. Don't discount the motivational factor. This is a guy with something to prove, and he would be playing for a contract. The way he trained to get back on the field demonstrates his desire and determination. Those qualities just might get him back to being a productive player. What the hell? It would just be a one year deal. I love stories like this. It's refreshing in this age of prima donna, exorbitantly paid athletes.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 03:00 PM) Nori actually has some reverse splits working for him, he's actually been a beast against LHP. He could use a platoon partner vs RHP. The problem is that all of the good left handed starters in the League are on the White Sox. No wonder he put up such huge numbers against us. He is the kind of offensive player, for whom I would personally settle, if he played great defense in RF, and his offensive splits were better vs. RHP. However, settling for a player who fit that description would be contingent upon getting the big LH bat to DH.

One of the intangible benefits of signing Victor, is that it breaks up the Tigers' potent middle of the order. There isn't another left handed hitter whom Detroit could acquire to replace him. Meanwhile, of course the Sox would then have arguably the best 3, 4 hitters in the League. I suggested earlier that the Sox could acquire a good defensive left fielder, with speed, to fill that hole. It makes even better sense to get a RF who profiles like that, and move A. Garcia to LF. Tank could be traded for something like a bull pen arm.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) I would be very happy with getting him.. Go protection for Abreu. I don't think he will be horribly worse with age. Can't imagine him hitting less then .270 throughout a 3 year contract. I would expect a few more home runs playing at US Cellular. Eaton Ramirez Abreu Martinez Garcia Gillaspie LF Flowers/C Semien/Sanchez/Johnson Could be a good line up depending on who we get for the extra OF spot. With that line up, they could settle for a good defensive left fielder with speed and a decent OBP. They wouldn't need any big power production. I would also suggest a platoon of Semien and Gillaspie, as many have advocated.

I started to look at some of the players, who reached career highs in several offensive categories, at age 35 or older. Several of them were guys in the Steroid era. Bonds, McGuire, and Manny Ramirez all took PEDS. Of the others, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron and Stan Musial stand out as Modern Era players (I'm old enough to consider the end of the "Dead Ball Era" as the beginning of the "Modern Era") who went on to have good years, very late in their careers. None of those players had the luxury of filling the role of DH. Maybe Martinez is in that mold, although it's easy to understand a reluctance to bet on it. One thing that really stands out to me is that he only struck out 42 times in 641 plate appearances!! With his terrific slugging percentage, that is truly remarkable. The guy is an extraordinary hitter. He might be one of the top 2 or 3 professional hitters in the game today, and just may be that rare exception to the rule. If the Sox are ready to do whatever else they need to do to build a solid contender, then a gamble that V Mart will be productive for the next 3 years, is reasonable. Frankly, if he performed at age 36, 37 and 38, I wouldn't think the 4th year would be that great of a detriment. Hell, write off the last year of a 4 year contract. It would be worth it, if the Sox could contend for the next 3.

The following article provides some interesting perspective on just how remarkable his season was, at his age: http://eyeontigers.blogspot.com/2014/11/ju...n+the+Tigers%29 A more interesting question would be; how did those other players perform at ages 36, 37, 38 and 39? That would be worth doing the research. Unless Martinez has discovered some way to beat the aging process (without PEDS), it doesn't seem reasonable to count on him to fair any better than the list of impressive Hall of Famers, who have accomplished a similarly impressive year, late in their careers.