Lillian

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 12, 2012 -> 04:48 AM) I read where Philly talked about trading Dominic Brown for Alfonso Soriano. I'd take Brown on the Sox. I've been saying Brown +, for Rios. Brown is a great prospect, but not ready to be inserted in the middle of the lineup. Could we all please agree that the candidate must fit the profile of a middle of the order, left handed bat? I'm pretty sure that is what Hahn wants, and that is easy to understand. He probably doesn't want to see Dunn batting anywhere lower than 5TH or 6TH. If the Sox have to hit Dunn 3RD again, they are not going to be very good. Assuming Viciedo is traded for this "mystery" player, and A. J. is not brought back, the lineup should look like this: de Aza Keppinger "Mystery" LH Bat Konerko Dunn Rios "Blah, Blah, Blah," whatever Brown is no where near ready to bat 3RD. I'd love for it to be Hamilton, but I'd settle for someone like Eithier, or the just traded Choo.

QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) Because there are no 3rd baseman on the open market to throw the money at. It has to be through a trade. So, exactly who is this stud third baseman for whom the Sox could trade de Aza, once having thrown all of that money at Bourn? Would he be another high priced player? If so, wouldn't it be better to just spend the combined salaries for Bourn and this "mystery" player, on Hamilton instead, and just keep the low cost de Aza? I'm sorry, but I don't quite see how this is going to solve the problems of acquiring an impact left handed bat, and a third baseman.

QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 09:59 AM) Y You guys need to stop looking at it as a a bourn de aza thing. We would be getting a similar centerfielder/leadoff while using our current one to possibly upgrade 3rd base. which does improve the team. Plus hopefully it is only another year our two until walker is ready to take over centerfield/leadoff. Perhaps, but why tie up that kind of money in a player, when the team already has his position covered, at a far more attractive contract? If it's a third baseman that you are ultimately seeking, why not just put the money there?

The only thing Bourn does better than de Aza is steal bases. He is probably a better center fielder, with more range, but doesn't de Aza have a better arm? Even so, that is not a significant upgrade, especially for the money. The Sox better put that money to better use, like another right handed starter, and a left handed power bat with a high OBP. Doesn't Hamilton make a lot more sense at $25 Million than Bourn at $16 Million?

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 7, 2012 -> 08:44 PM) Upton Rios Dunn Konerko as 3-4-5-6 in whatever order is great middle of the pack, assuming Rios and Dunn hit like they did last year. You are still ignoring that fact that such a lineup is missing the other left handed hitter. Do you really feel comfortable with Dunn as the only one? I don't. Please suggest a left handed hitter who could hit 3RD, followed by Konerko at clean up, then Dunn 5TH and Rios 6TH. How about someone like Eithier, who is really good vs. RHP, and would not require as many players in the trade? Apparently, the Dodgers are eager to unload that contract. Wouldn't you be happy trading Thornton and Floyd to the Dodgers for Eithier, with some salary relief?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 7, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) This isn't directed at you, but what makes Upton THAT great? The youth and room to grow that comes with it? I can understand that but right now he is far from superstar material. Based on his stats he seems like a really nice player, but worth selling a bunch of pieces for? We have some good major league outfielders and some really good minor league ones. If we are putting together a stellar package, why is Upton the best target? I thought the same thing. Moreover, Upton is another right handed hitter. I hate to have to keep reminding everyone of the need for a left handed hitter, but that is not only my opinion, it seems to be shared by Hahn.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2012 -> 05:43 AM) Wouldn't mind a LH hitter, but I'll take am Upton over the supposed balance any day. I would rather have a good righty than a mediocre lefty just for balance. I agree with entirely. I would also "rather have a good righty than a mediocre left". However, what this team needs is a really good left handed hitter, for the middle of the order!! Adam Dunn shouldn't bat any higher than 5TH.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 08:24 PM) In reference to this post... Someone I follow on twitter said Heyman was on MLB Networks and said: White Sox tossing around "pie in the sky" ideas. "somebody that they've loved for 5 years" Also he just tossed Justin Upton's name into the White Sox possibility bin. Don't know if that's based on anything but he said it. Can anyone vouch? How does Upton solve the problem of having a lineup that is too right handed? That contract will be expensive in 2014 and 2015, at over $14 million per year. Then you still don't have a true center fielder. De Aza wants to be moved to LF, and probably should be. He'd be a nice piece, but would you really want to give up a lot to get him?

The fact that Hannahan is a left handed hitter is irrelevant. He does not provide an impact bat, therefore it doesn't matter from which side of the plate he hits. His only value would be his defense, and the depth he provides, especially if the Sox are going to try to give Morel another chance to prove that he's healthy.

Not being in that clubhouse, we have no way of knowing, however A. J. has always seemed to me to be the "heart and soul" of the team. He's a fierce competitor, and a pretty good "clutch" player. I wonder who would replace that intangible.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 24, 2012 -> 09:22 AM) I said this somewhere before, but the Rockettes have a couple of guys who can play third AND hit, and they are desperate for pitching. Nelson and LeMehieu (sp). Pacheco, too, but he would be more expensive. I see that the Rockies just acquired a top third base prospect, so perhaps they would move one of the guys you suggested: http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/news/artic...ol&c_id=col Or, maybe they acquired Wheeler so that they could deal him to us. How's that for wishful thinking? He's the best fit, because he's left handed and appears to have good power. The Rockies need pitching. Would they want Floyd and Thornton? Floyd's curve ball doesn't profile well in the mile high air, but Thornton's heater might work for them.

If your assessment of Viciedo's defensive potential is correct, then I agree that he shouldn't be moved to 3RD, which means that I would prefer that they consider trading him. However, I'm not convinced that he couldn't become an adequate third baseman. He certainly has the arm, and he did become a pretty decent outfielder, through hard work and lots of practice. Don't you think that he has the athletic ability to improve significantly?

The more I think about it, and the longer the search continues for both a third baseman, and an impact left handed bat, the more sense it makes to move Viciedo back to 3RD, or trade him. This organization has a lot of right handed hitting, outfield talent, and it's much easier to find an impact bat to play LF, than it is to play 3RD. De Aza is the only current Sox outfielder who bats left handed, and he isn't a middle of the order hitter. Thompson and Hawkins are the only outfielders on the list of Sox top prospects, and they both also hit from the right side. The Sox desperately need a left handed hitter now, and in the future.

Here are a few possibilities for players who could become available if their team signs Hamilton: San Francisco Giants 3-1 Angel Pagan (switch hitter) Atlanta Braves 5-1 Martin Prado (right handed) Texas Rangers 5-1 Philadelphia Phillies 7-1 Domonic Brown (left handed) New York Yankees 9-1 Curtis Granderson (left handed) Chicago Cubs 9-1 Alfonso Soriano (RH) Boston Red Sox 9-1 Jacoby Ellsbury (left handed) Pittsburgh Pirates 10-1 Travis Snider (left handed) Garret Jones (LH) Toronto Blue Jays 10-1 (I think the Jays have spent their money, and then some) Los Angeles Dodgers 15-1 Andre Ethier (left handed) Carl Crawford (LH) I'm sure that I've missed some, but there isn't much on that list. They are either right handed, or not middle of the order bats. I agree with "2nd City" that Granderson is the only impact, left handed bat, and I'm not sure I'd want that contract and his inconsistency.

Following up on a point I made in my last post, it's fun to speculate about which players might become available from the respective candidates to sign Hamilton. Almost any team with that kind of money, and chance to win, is going to have talent that may have to be jettisoned, in order to make room for Hamilton and his salary. This article gives the Vegas odds makers' choices for likely teams: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-b...ltons-next-team Here is the list: San Francisco Giants 3-1 Atlanta Braves 5-1 Texas Rangers 5-1 Philadelphia Phillies 7-1 New York Yankees 9-1 Chicago Cubs 9-1 Boston Red Sox 9-1 Pittsburgh Pirates 10-1 Toronto Blue Jays 10-1 Los Angeles Dodgers 15-1 Which left handed bats do you think might become available, from the respective teams on that list, if Hamilton should sign there?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 22, 2012 -> 03:39 AM) Let's amend my initial "$50" to "$25." He's going to get at least 5 years. You have alluded to it in the $100/5 deal. We will agree on that. I, too, believe that, due to age and prior history, he is going to struggle to get a 7 year deal, but that I think you could see an extremely unique sort of contract to which he is negotiated. But, $20 mill a year? That's a hometown discount number. Unless you have insider knowledge with regards to him wanting to play with the White Sox, there's no way he's going to take $20 mill a year. He's going to take the $25 mill that is offered to him. The absolute worst guaranteed money I see to him is $125 million. Unless something drastic comes out between this point and Christmas, he's going to get a monstrosity of a contract that would be horrendous to the entirety of the White Sox francise. Trivia question, with regards to this thread - how many $100+ million contracts have the White Sox ever signed with a baseball player? You have....(looks at fake watch, then looks at real clock)......5 years to tell me. You're probably correct on all points. However, it's going to be pretty difficult to compete with the Tigers, if the Sox don't spend the money. In the last couple of years, while Detroit keeps adding big names, we are letting guys go. Last year the Sox subtracted Buerhle and Quentin, this year it will be A. J. and Youkilis. Without a great farm system, this is not exactly a strategy for success. Oh well, maybe the Sox can take the scraps left after Hamilton signs his big contract. He will most likely sign with a big money team, and whomever he replaces will probably be on the trading block. Let's hope that he's a left handed hitter, and that the Sox could take him off the hands of whichever G.M. needs to dump him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) They can offer Hamilton that, but he'd get a contract worth anywhere between $50-75 million more than that Perhaps, but that would be what Hamilton has been asking, which is $175 Million for 7 years. It doesn't appear that any GM has been willing to give him that. He may not have any takers at that price. We'll see, soon enough I suspect.

The Sox will need at least a couple of middle of the order hitters after Konerko is gone next year, and then Dunn the year after. There are no big impact left handed bats waiting in the minors. Why not offer Hamilton 5 years, at $20 million per year, for a total of $100 million? Sure, the payroll would be higher for two years, until Konerko and Dunn are gone, along with their contracts, but at least the lineup would be competitive with the Tigers. Move Viciedo to 3RD, put Hamilton in his spot in Left, and call it an off season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) Gonzales mentions Michael Young at 3B if the Sox can get some salary relief. Basically there is no chance at Headley. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11...ter-gm-meetings That still wouldn't solve the problem of filling the need for a middle of the order left handed bat. Why not trade Floyd, Thornton and another piece, if necessary, for Ethier? The Dodgers are looking for a right handed starter, and a left handed reliever. That would be a constructive salary dump for the Sox, as neither Floyd nor Thornton should be on this roster, in the first place. That would still leave one hole, and the Sox should consider spending some money on a top of the rotation right handed starter, which Floyd is not. Ethier could play LF, or switch with Rios. Ethier, de Aza and Rios would make a pretty good outfield. I still like the idea of moving Viciedo back to 3B. He has the hands, and the arm to play there. Line up: de Aza Sanchez or Beckham, if he isn't traded, or can finally start to hit. Rios Ethier Konerko Dunn Viciedo Ramirez Flowers

With all of these additions, Toronto is going to have a few players that need to be moved. Is there anyone, now expendable, who appeals to you guys? What about their young stolen base phenom, Gose?

QUOTE (forrestg @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 02:15 AM) I wish we had getz back not a great player but is a 250-275 left hitter adequate 2nd base but wouldn't let him bunt too much seems to let his fingers get in the way. Switch Beckham back to third where he seems to have attain a better avg It seems highly doubtful that Beckham's playing 3RD would correlate to his having a higher average. It probably had nothing to do with his hitting better, and was just coincidental. If anything, he should be happier and more relaxed, now that he seems to have found a position at which he is very comfortable. I'm afraid his discomfort is at the plate!!

Although we can't know exactly what Hahn's first significant move will be, we should be confident that he will look for one or more left handed bats, and some badly needed higher on base production. If we were to go into next season with the current roster, the OBP could be horrible. The lower half of the Sox could conceivably look like this: Viciedo Ramirez Flowers Beckham ? Third Baseman ? They could all have sub .300 On Base Percentages, and they could all be right handed. Moreover, the top of the order isn't exactly dynamite either. I suspect that Hahn will address this glaring weakness. If he doesn't, I don't see how this team will compete with the Tigers, unless they hold the opposition to about 3 runs per game, and we know that isn't going to happen. Instead of contemplating spending $20 - $25 million per year, for up to 7 years, on Hamilton, I'd rather see them spend less on perhaps 2 or 3 players. Why not fill the hole at third, find one impact, middle of the order left handed bat, and one right handed top of the rotation starter, who is perhaps nearing free agency and would not have to be signed to a long term deal? In order to accomplish such goals and make room on the roster, as well as the payroll, I would trade Thornton, Floyd, Beckham and maybe Viciedo, depending upon the return for him. I'd plug Carlos Sanchez into Beckham's place at second base. I'd give sanchez a chance, but not a very long leash. He is awfully young, and it may be too early to expect him to play in the Big Leagues. If he were not ready, a good fielding second baseman would be one of the easiest holes to fill.

Putting Pagan and de Aza in the outfield, and either moving Viciedo to 3RD, or trading him for a third baseman, makes some sense. Those two would give the Sox a good top of the order, with speed and decent OBP. Pagan is a switch hitter, and could either lead off or bat second. Then you can go with Rios and Konerko, before hitting Dunn 5TH, which should be the lowest in the order that should ever see his .200 batting average. The line up could then see Viciedo, Ramirez, Flowers and Beckham at the bottom half. It's still too heavily weighted with right handed hitters, but it's better than we had last year.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 03:28 AM) There seems to be a trend of thought here on SoxTalk that he is 'every other year' player. The "every other year" label is not justified. His poor year in 2011 is very easily explained by that horrible stance he adopted. I remember painfully watching him, game after game, and thinking that no one could hit with a stance like that. Once he changed it, he instantly started to hit. I guess maybe J. Manto deserves a lot of the credit. It is inconceivable to me that Rios would go back to the mechanical approach he used in 2011, or even tinker with his current stance. He looks so much better at the plate. Another point that many seem to forget is that he was even better last year than his numbers. As good as he was, he hit into a lot of bad luck. He probably had more "hang with 'ems" than anyone on the team. He seemed to hit the ball as consistently hard as any hitter I can remember in a Sox uniform, since Frank Thomas' good years. Please note that I said "since" Thomas, not as good as Thomas. He should have been the # 3 hitter last year, and it is arguable that he would have been even better hitting in that spot, with more protection. I know that he didn't perform well there in the few at bats he had in that spot, but the sample size was far too small. One final point, is that Rios is a genuine 5 tool player, and we don't have anyone else who even remotely fits that description.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) I doubt Headley becomes a bust, but there is a very high chance that you overpay for him. You just have to hope the players you give up fizzle out like prospects often do. Then you have to not give Headley a s*** ton of money Although he would be a more than serviceable solution to fill the hole at third base, he is not the big left handed bat the Sox need. Moreover, he is not worth committing big money. The Sox would still need to look elsewhere for the sorely needed left handed, middle of the order bat. I hope that Hahn does not plan to go into next season with Dunn's .200 batting average anywhere in the middle of the order.