Lillian

We are surely going to hear strong pleas to be patient and not to panic. However, given last year's disaster with Rios, Dunn, Beckham and Morel, you have to wonder how long this team can keep running those guys out there. What possible excuse and justification could they offer for not making some changes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) By the way, I forgot to ask this yesterday...what site gives you LH/RH minor league split statistics? I've never found a site that gives historical Minor League splits. There are sources for the current season, but not past years. When I spoke of de Aza's great numbers versus RHP at Charlotte, it was from memory. I even remember posting his numbers in a thread, during the 2010 season. If anyone knows where to find previous seasons' split Minor League stats, please pass the information along.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 10:39 AM) Okay, the odds of Jackson getting 200+ AB's are greater than Cowley winning the Pulitzer Prize. Well, I guess I now have a vested interest in Conor Jackson's career. He's going to be this year's "Alejandro de Aza" for me. De Aza is the last player whom I tauted on this site. I raved about him for almost two years, and everyone on this board, gave me such grief: "He's a 4TH outfielder", "A career Minor Leaguer," "He's a AAAA player". I was pretty thrilled when he finally showed everyone what he could do, last season. I'm hoping that you neighsayers will be eating crow over Conor Jackson, this season. "Come on, Coner"

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 10:21 AM) I put the Escobar as full-time starter at 2B in the same category as Conor Jackson as the platoon partner for Dunn. Ouch. That hurt. LOL

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:56 PM) It is amazing how slow he is. You bring up a great point. I wonder why there's not a Paulie shift that would have the third baseman and shortstop play several steps past the infield. He would not be able to beat out any "hits" that are a few steps into the outfield grass. Interesting Shhhhhhh!!!

QUOTE (Reddy @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 07:02 AM) Am I the only one who thinks this thread is insane after only 8 games and us winning FIVE of them!? we are 11th in the league in OPS. I'll grant you, we need to score more runs, but it's been EIGHT FRIGGIN GAMES! EDIT: by league, I do mean, all of MLB. I don't think that any of us are panicing. However, it is clear that the 2012 White Sox are not going to be one of the premiere offensive teams in the League. When you look at teams like the Rangers, Yankees and Tigers, it's not hard to understand why we would be searching for ways to improve the offense. That was the intent of this thread. It doesn't hurt to consider some changes, does it?

QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 05:34 AM) I'm actually kinda serious. As we learned from the Marlins debacle, most MLB teams have more money then they're willing to disclose publicly. Obviously the Sox intend on paying Rios his $$$ for the rest of his contract. There's no doubt in my mind that the Sox could spare another 500K (or whatever league minimun is) to call up a Jordan Danks, or Tyler Kuhn etc. if they were to give Rios his release due to performance issues. You know a trade will net you nothing and you're gonna have to pay most of his salary anyway, just let him go if he continues to suck (haha, yeah, if...) I know I'm not at all an expert of MLB finances, but there has got to be a scenario where this is somewhat possible. The only thing keeping it from happening is either foolish pride on KW's part or just a blind faith that somehow Rios will become a productive major leaguer in a Sox uniform. I agree with you. However, if the objective is to clear a roster spot on the 25 man club, why couldn't they send him to Charlotte? Boy, that would really infuriate Rios. Who knows, maybe it would lite a fire under him. He is clearly an underachiever. If he played well at Charlotte, perhaps someone would want to take him off our hands. If the risk is that he would have to clear waivers, in order to go to AAA, so be it. If a team wanted to claim him off waivers, I'd be thrilled, and I suspect a lot of other Sox people would be, as well. Am I missing something here?

Another reason why the Sox could benefit from platooning a few guys is that there isn't a single switch hitter, with the exception of Escobar, and I don't expect him to be on the Big League club, once Jackson demonstrates that he's back.

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree about Jackson's strength, especially versus LHP. Yes it's true that he draws a lot of walks, but there is much more to his offensive game. If you examine his split stats versus LHP, for the years 2006, 2007 and 2008, when he was just 24 to 26 years old, you'll note that he not only had a terrific average and OBP, but he also hit a lot of doubles and even a few homers. Here are his stats vs LHP, in the last two of those years, projected over a 162 game season: 2007 36 2B 4 3B 17 HR 96 RBI .320 AVG .408 OBP .549 SLG .958 OPS 2008 46 2B 3 3B 11 HR 66 RBI .315 AVG .446 OBP .492 SLG .938 OPS The guy can clearly hit lefties!!! I suspect that he'd hit a few more home runs in our ballpark. He'll turn just 30 next month. He's still in his prime, and I see no reason to not expect him to get back to where he was, now that he's healthy. Wouldn't you take those numbers sandwiched between Konerko and Viciedo, versus lefties? I'd much prefer that to the hole in the lineup that Dunn represents vs. lefties.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 08:42 PM) Even then, Charlotte isn't Chicago. Here's the problem with Jackson. Not that he put up a 660 OPS against LH pitching with well over 100 at-bats (0 homers) last year. It's that, even at his best, his #1 ability is walking to 1B. Which is probably Adam Dunn's best skill set against LHP as well. Who is going to drive either Dunn or Jackson in (let's say they're hitting 5th or 6th in the order) at the bottom of the line-up? That's why OPS can sometimes be misleading. A lot of Jackson's is OBP and less slugging...against LHP, we need the opposite, more power hitting and less base clogging. If we had consistent threats up and down the line-up, I might agree that Jackson would fit in better. But it's also been 4 years since he was a productive, everyday player. Stranger things have happened, sure, but the odds of Jackson being in Chicago in the first two months are about the same as Jake Peavy throwing 96 or 97 again. I wouldn't put much stock in any stats from Jackson, past the 2008 season. I would think that his production prior to 2009 would be much more indicative of his ability. The illness and injury pretty much rendered him useless the last 3 seasons.

Here is what K. W. had to say about the Conor Jackson signing: Williams: About the signing of Conor Jackson to a minor league contract today: "He was on a career trajectory that was seemingly … the ceiling was through the roof. He got valley fever. And from what I understand, it’s just a terrible thing to catch. He’s working his way back. He’s going to be working his way back in AAA."

I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments, as usual. I'm not normally a big fan of platooning players, but when you have combinations of inept hitters versus either left or right handed pitching, and there are capable replacements, why not? A hitter like Dunn is so bad versus LHP, and he has to bat in the middle of the order to be useful, in any case. A hitter like Conor Jackson, who completley dominated LHP when he was healthy, has to be seriously considered as a viable solution to the hole in the lineup that Dunn represents vs. LHP. I'm watching Jackson's daily progress at Charlotte, and hoping that he soon displays his ability to hit, especially vs. lefties.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) Theoretically, Flowers could be the RH half of a DH combo with Dunn. With how hot AJ's been going, he's the only one providing protection to Konerko in that line-up. It's definitely not coming from Rios. So the question is where Flowers is going to get AB's if we're going to give Lillibridge the AB's against LHPers (sitting Dunn). Until Jackson proves himself, and he hasn't really been healthy for a full season since 2008...they will look at Brent as the first option over Jackson and leave DeAza in CF to play everyday because of the lack of another decent leadoff hitter on this team. It could come down to who does Robin want to sit more against LHP, Dunn or DeAza? At any rate, there probably won't be any major changes (except for Morel's role in the 2 spot) for another 2-3 weeks. Then you're probably going to have to move Ramirez or AJ back to the 2nd spot at some point if Morel continues to struggle, with Viciedo moved up. But that doesn't leave Konerko with much protection against LHP behind him. What are Lillibridge's splits as the leadoff hitter again? I'd have to look them up. He only had 29 AB's last year in the lead-off spot. However, he has the speed and his OBP was .346 vs. LHP

I understand the skepticism versus Conor Jackson. However, you really need to consider the circumstances. That Valley Fever was completely debilitating. I suspect that K. W. acquired him with precisely the idea in mind of having him spell Dunn vs. LHP. It's hard to believe that he would want to take a chance on reliving the nightmare that was Dunn last season. A replacement vs. LHP is the minimum step that any rational observer would seek.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:38 PM) Why? If we're basing thing entirely on this season's sample size, his splits against RHP and LHP are pretty much identical. Look at de Aza's splits from last year, and his Minor League play. He is adequate vs. LHP, but not nearly as good as he is vs. RHP, which is where Lillibridge really excels.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:13 PM) The main question I would ask is, what is the purpose of this season? Is it to compete for the AL Central or develop for future years down the road? By your decision to not bench Morel and/or Beckham, it seems you have the "we have to find out if these guys can play everyday and be part of the future" idea in mind. On the other hand, can you really "fix" the rest of the offense with 3 platoons if Beckham and Morel put up OPS numbers in the 500's? Based on spring training, Dunn was able to handle left-handed pitching quite well. But if you went by 2010 and the first week of 2011 alone, you would certainly be justified looking at him as a platoon candidate. It just doesn't seem like the kind of decision Ventura is going to make from just 10 or 11 at-bats in the first week of the season, especially since Holland and Harrison are two of the better lefties in the game and Dunn had never seen Wilk before Saturday. I'm also guessing this means you're going to send Escobar down OR Jones/Stewart, yes? Perhaps we can get away with making Nathan Jones the long man, but from the first two times out, this doesn't seem to be what Ventura is looking for out of him... If Lillibridge is splitting time with DeAza, then you're REALLY thin at back-up infield...of course, you could always move Brent from CF to one of the infield positions, but that takes away some of your flexibility. And the players that Escobar and Lillibridge would normally pinch run for are not the players they would replace on the infield (Morel, Ramirez, Beckham). Then you have the economics of the situation. The fact that Dunn and Rios are each owed roughly $40-45 million, and by making them both strictly platoon players, it makes it that much more impossible to ever get those contracts off the books for KW, without eating huge chunks of salary. Yes, it's a compelling argument that Fukudome always does well in April play, but Rios is so sensitive (not sure what would be a better term) that in all probability only playing 25-35% of the time (against LHP) would bring about further deterioration in his skills, attitude and performance. As with Dunn's first handful of AB's, Ventura's not going to go there this early in the season. And finally, Lillibridge looks to have back his REALLY long swing. By projecting them into the line-up based on limited 2012 success, how much is that success likely to repeat itself if you look at Brent's career track record as a major league hitter? 25%? Obviously, he's only getting limited AB's, so it's not fair to judge him based on a few PH appearances...but expecting Lillibridge to hit 15+ homers again is just like projecting Brent Morel to hit 18-24 homers based on the last six weeks of 2011. And we saw how well that performance from the end of last season has carried over to this one. The pitching is too good to waste this season, if there is any chance to compete. I'm all for giving the youngsters Morel, Beckham, de Aza and Flowers plenty of playing time, but if there is a way to maximize the offensive potential, why not try to do that? Regarding Escobar, yes I would send him down for Conor Jackson, as soon as Jackson demonstrates that he's back to his normal level of performance. They have Lillibridge to fill in at infield position, if they need it. Removing the "hole" in the middle of the lineup vs. LHP is a higher priority than a utility infielder. If the infield defense were a weak point, that would be another story. However, all of our infielders are superb, and this team does not need a defensive replacement at those positions.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:27 PM) Can Lilly play second base effectively? It might be time to start sitting Gordon 3 days a week. Definitely at least 2 of every 7 games. Yes, Lillibridge can play 2B, and he would be an offensive upgrade vs. LHP. However, I'd rather give Beckham a chance to figure it out. That is not the case with Dunn and Rios. They have had plenty of time to do that. Lillibridge is a better platoon candidate for de Aza in CF.

Here are Dunn's split stats vs. LHP for each of the last 4 years: 2008 .195 .351 .422 2009 .268 .351 .438 2010 .199 .304 .416 2011 .064 .235 .074 Watching him thus far this year, (0 for 11) I don't expect any better. At this point in his career, he has "earned" a seat on the bench vs. LHP. You have to ask yourself how you bat a guy with numbers like that in the middle of your lineup. I don't care how much money he's making.

So far, early in the season, it is very apparent that this team has the two most important components to play winning baseball; pitching and defense. The starting rotation is deep, and the bullpen has a collection of great arms, with a nice mix of veterans and youngsters. Unfortunately, the offense is going to struggle to score runs. Saving a trade, there are several things that could be done to attempt to better utilize the limited talent on this squad. Some changes in the order, and platooning a few guys, could improve the offense, without compromising the defense. I posted a few of these recommendations in another thread, but suspect that the subject got buried there. Given its importance, I’d enjoy your suggestions regarding how the Sox might improve run production without a trade, and without compromising the defense. Here are my suggestions: Fukudome has a career OBP .047 higher than Rios, versus RHP. He would make a good number two hitter against righties, and his defense is probably close to as good as that of Rios. His career .368 OBP, and ability to take a lot of pitches, would look very good hitting in front of the heart of the order. Against LHP, Rios could return to RF, and Ramirez could bat in the number 2 hole. Alexei has very good career numbers vs. LHP, including a .354 OBP. Lillibridge demonstrated tremendous power versus LHP last season, with a .585 slugging %, and a very respectable .346 OBP. He has earned some playing time, and the least that he should be afforded is the opportunity to hit versus LHP. He could platoon with de Aza in CF, and provide comparable defense. De Aza is a better hitter vs. RHP. They are almost interchangeable, and both provide good speed and defense, thus making an ideal platoon tandem. The third platoon will likely materialize once Conor Jackson gets his swing back at AAA. He is too talented, with too impressive of a track record, to languish in the Minors. especially on this offensively challenged roster. Now that he seems completely recovered from his terrible bout with Valley Fever, and the hernia he suffered, he should return to his previous form, especially given that he'’s only 30. He could platoon as DH with Dunn. Even if Adam gets back on track, he is not that good of a hitter versus LHP, and Jackson has always owned lefties. In his first 3 Big League seasons from 2006 through 2008, his OBP vs. LHP was .378 .408 .446 respectively. Striking out fewer than once every 10 at bats would also be a refreshing change from the "whiff machine" that is Dunn against both right and left handed pitching. If Jackson starts hitting at AAA, he has to be given a shot, and a platoon with Dunn is the minimum opportunity that he should get. Another lineup change has to be to move Viciedo down to the number 5 spot. That would put Paulie 3RD, Dunn clean up, and Viciedo 5TH, versus RHP. Versus LHP, I’d like to see Konerko 3RD, Jackson 4TH and Viciedo 5TH. In any case, Paulie should not be batting clean up, as it would result in his leading off too many innings. All of these changes would increase the number of base runners, and the mix of right and left handed hitters in our otherwise right handed heavy lineup. The Sox will still need to get better production from Beckham and Morel, but that could very well transpire, and both players provide Gold Glove caliber defense. Robin must figure out ways to maximize the offense, without compromising the stellar defense, and these changes could go a long way to accomplishing that.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 14, 2012 -> 06:56 AM) At what point do you send him down to AAA and have him totally revamp his swing? I was all for giving him one more full season to prove himself, but now I'm thinking spending some down time in Charlotte without the pressure of immediate results may do him some good. Not saying we should make the move now, but if he keeps this up throughout the rest of April and into May it must be considered. The good news if we go this route is we have a guy at AAA (Tyler Kuhn) who can take Beckham's spot on the roster and who can compete with Lillibridge for playing time at 2B. Kuhn is exactly the same age as Beckham, and also had a stellar university career. Last year made people really take note of him, and he is off to another good start. I'd be very interested to see how he would adjust to MLB pitching.

This offense is very worrisome. The same group seems to be picking right up where they left off last year. Rios, Dunn, Beckham and Morel, are still huge holes in the lineup. Let's hope either they figure it out, or that Robin and K. W. will be proactive, and make changes before the team finds itself in a hole, from which they can't crawl out.

It looks like the hitch in his swing has become more exaggerated, and he seems to start it later. It's so frustrating to watch. I can't believe that there aren't people working with him to fix this.

I understand that he is not a plus defender, and that's why I suggested that Morel should be a late inning defensive replacement. McPherson really hasn't had a chance to play regularly at the Big League level, since coming back from his back surgeries. He's only had 26 at bats since 2008. Does anyone really believe that those 26 at bats provide evidence of anything? He has hit very well at AAA, especially vs. RHP. I don't think that there's any way to know what he would do. He certainly has the potential to be an impact bat, which I don't think either Morel or Escobar do. What would you guys suggest that this team do to make the offense more respectable? There isn't much for opposing pitchers to fear in our lineup, besides P.K.

I know that it's a little premature, but I'd love to see Escobar sent back down to Charlotte, and Dalla McPherson brought up. He has been a monster the last couple of years, vs. RHP at AAA. The offense could sure use a left handed power bat. I don't think that there is much more for him to prove at AAA. The poor guy had so much promise before his back problems. Morel could play 3RD versus LHP, and be a late innings defensive replacement.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 08:20 AM) Then put him at Charlotte for a few weeks and if he is going to return to consistent MLB level hitting, he ought to destroy AAA pitching, right? And if he's hitting so well that the team can't afford to not call him up, then make that call. That is precisely what I anticipate will happen, unless he is not completely over his illness.