Lillian

It seems that most of us agree that the highest priority should be to move the Rios and Dunn contracts. Neither of these guys appears to be good enough to justify their salaries, even if they should start to play a little better. Their contracts could cripple the organization for the next three years, and tie managements hands from making any further needed acquisitions. The only way you can trade such under achieving players is to include them in a deal with a player that some team really wants and needs. Looking to next year, perhaps they could now trade two different packages to a couple of contending teams. A National League team might have confidence that Dunn could produce up to his N.L. career numbers, playing 1B. If someone wants pitching and could use Dunn, trade Jackson and Dunn for a young pitching prospect. Then package Danks and Rios, and send them to a team needing a good LH starter. If they want Danks, who should be considered highly desirable, they have to agree to take Rios. This is addition by subtraction. Unloading the Rios and Dunn contracts would give the Sox a lot of payroll flexibility going into next year. We could afford to retain Quentin, and plug in de Aza in CF and Viciedo for the other corner outfield spot. With the money the Sox would save, they should be able to sign a good LH power bat to DH. That was the idea with Dunn, but I think that you have to realistically conclude that he is not the answer. Perhaps they could get even more back in those trades, however just unloading the Rios and Dunn salaries, without having to kick in any salary relief, would justify the moves, IMO. Is any of this realisitically feasible, and if so, which teams are the best candidates for such trades? And lastly, who would you target in the off season as a free agent LH power bat? Could Prince Fielder be affordable with all of the salary relief provided by these moves?

I hate to throw cold water on an upbeat post game thread, but Rios was O for 5 and left 7 men on base!!!!! If any team wants one of our pitchers, they'd better agree to take that Rios contract in the deal. I'm ready for a de Aza and Lillibridge platoon. And please, don't anyone dare post that "de Aza is not an everyday Major League hitter". How do you know? Based upon what, his 164 AB's, when he was 23? And, who says Alex Rios is? I'd be shocked if de Aza put up numbers any worse than Rios has. I'd take anywhere near de Aza's limited MLB production from last season over Rios, without even considering the money saved. For me, the question isn't whether I'd prefer de Aza to Rios. The question is; what GM would be dumb enough to take him and that contract? Besides K. W. Moreover, with de Aza in CF, you have your lead off hitter to replace Pierre. Then you have room for Viciedo. Please someone, take Rios and put us all out of our misery!!!

Something else that no one seems to be talking about is that Viciedo is killing RHP. Last year, when he was called up, he was given a lot of playing time vs. LHP. It appears that he may be even a better hitter against RHP.

I've been advocating Major League playing time for de Aza for the last year. He had a very good year last year, and is doing it again this season, especially of late. Look at his numbers versus RHP. He's hitting .338 with a .400 OBP and a .560 Slugging %. I think he had an OBP of about .420 vs. RHP last season. It's not fair to say that he couldn't be productive at the Major League level. He's really not had a chance to prove whether or not he is a Big Leaguer. He's only had 50 Major League at bats over the last 3 seasons. Even then, he was productive in his very limited playing time last year for the Sox, batting .300. He plays very good defense, and can steal a base. What's not to like? If they could dump that Rios contract, I'd love to see him get a shot at playing CF and leading off.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 06:31 AM) Lillibridge and De Aza are not everyday Major League center fielders. I'm not so sure that is a fair or accurate assessment. I, for one, would love to find out. Why not give them a chance?

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 05:55 AM) Rios is obviously dis-interested and dogging it this year. I've never seen a guy making about 15 mill look so unhappy. I tried to like Rios and thought he was avictim of bad luck because he was hitting the ball right at people. But it sure does look like he has shut it down. Would this be a feasible trade? Sox pick up a good chunk of Rios's salary and ship him and Danks to StL. for Rasmus. Am I under-valueing Danks and over-valueing Rasmus? Or both the Danks for Rasmus and just DFA Rios. The next few years an OF of Rasmus, Q, and Viciedo sounds good to me. Toronto got someone to bite on Vernon Wells contract, maybe the Sox can find a taker for Rios. I don't think the Sox need to acquire a center fielder. They could use either De Aza or Lillibridge, or platoon them. Both of them would also provide an alternative to the Pierre problem at lead off. That paves the way for Viciedo in LF. They just need to get rid of Rios. The Sox took the Rios contract without giving up anyone. If they can find someone to take him, even if they have to throw in a little salary relief, it would be worth it. I wouldn't want to weaken the pitching as that is likely what will carry the Sox to Post Season play, if they are to have any chance of playing in October. The Sox have other options in house. This is one of those "addition by subtraction" problems. Get rid of any or all of Pierre, Rios and Dunn, and the black holes they represent in the lineup, and instantly you have a better offensive team, no matter who you put in their place. And the salary relief would give you a chance to try something else next season, or even pick up a producer from an out of contention team, looking to dump salary later in the season.

If service time is indeed the reason that Viciedo has not been brought up, why couldn't they have made the move earlier, and simply planned to send him back down later in the season, if the team didn't have a realistic shot at post season play? If the Sox were in contention, and Viciedo had been contributing significantly, that would have justified the cost of one year of service time. If not, they could have still avoided the adverse service time consequence by simply returning him to Charlotte. I understand that they would have had to use one of his options, but that shouldn't be an issue with Viciedo. Once he comes to the Big Leagues, he shouldn't need to be sent back down very often.

The great intangible positive with Lillibridge is his heart. This guy is like Notre Dame's Rudy. You would have to think that his hustle and determination would light a fire under some of the other guys. He's the classic over-achiever. Of course, he can't possibly keep up this pace. After all, he isn't really going to hit .300 with over 50 homers. Nevertheless, he is putting guys like Dunn and Rios to shame. They have to be embarrassed to begin with, but Lilliibridge is making them look even worse. In his very limited playing time, he's already made twice as many really great, all out effort, plays in the outfield as any other full time outfielder on this squad. What an inspiration!! He's becomming my favorite player. How can you not love a guy like that?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2011 -> 06:31 AM) Rios had his hands higher up in 2009 when he was having a terrible season with the Blue Jays/White Sox. He lowered his hands last year and suddenly refound his stroke. You're probably correct. I don't remember how he used to bat. In any case, It looks like a terrible way to hit. He better change something, because whatever he's doing, isn't working.

I'm always amazed at why guys don't try to emulate other players who have "figured it out". If you were Rios, and you saw how Konerko's great mechanics help him to be such a good hitter, and then you witnessed Lillybridge turning his career around with a few positive changes in his mechanics, wouldn't you think about trying to tinker a little with your own approach? Every time I watch Rios hit, or should I say "not hit", I wonder why he doesn't try to get his hands up, where they belong, and place his feet in a good athletic stance. Rios probably has a lot more athletic ability than Konerko, but his approach to hitting is just awful. If I were the hitting coach, I'd tell him to try something new, because whatever he's doing now isn't working.

I hate to be so obstinate about it, but at this point, if Ozzie doesn't play Lillibridge in place of one of our strugging players, I don't think I'll watch. Brent has earned a chance to play regularly.

All of this "pride", obstinacy, and ego, makes this underperforming team even more difficult to watch. At least some accountability would make me feel like rooting for them. I want to see Lillibridge, Viciedo, and maybe even Gallagher. If they don't produce, then try something else. Dunn should not hit against left handed pitching util at least one of the following happens: 1) He starts to really produce big numbers versus righties. 2) His platoon substitute fails miserably. 3) Injuries force him to hit full time

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 30, 2011 -> 08:06 AM) Because you don't pay a guy at age 31 $16 million per year over four years to be a platoon player. Just like Ozzie won't take away Dunn's ab's and give them to Lillibridge or Viciedo. He almost always lets veteran players work out of slumps unless they're injured. Nick Swisher is one of the only benchings of a high-salaried player (for a longer than 3-5 game span) that I can remember in the last decade. I understand, but what would you do, if it were up to you?

Dunn has been very bad vs. left handed pitching for the last several years. That wasn't always the case, and in fact, he had a few years earlier in his career when he actually hit lefties really well. Scouts must have found a big hole in his swing vs southpaws, and the book on him is probably pretty well established by now. Dunn's value to this team is to provide a left handed presence in a very heavily weighted right handed line up. Versus left handed pitching, that function is not relevant, and he isn't good enough to be in there, when he serves no other purpose. What exactly is he supposed to be bringing to the game? Is it his blinding speed? Or perhaps his great defense, which if he had it, wouldn't be relevant as a DH. The point is he serves no purpose vs. left handed pitching. Any other player on the bench would be a better choice. Lillibridge is the best current option. He's very good vs. lefties, and when he plays his speed and defense add a lot to the team. He could play right, and let Carlos D.H. versus lefties. Or, he could play left, and let Pierre DH, although, many of us have our doubts about the merits of J. P. being on the field, in the first place. Brent has certainly earned the playing time, and he would be a far better option than Dunn vs lefties. And of course, an even more obvious solution here is to bring up Viciedo and platoon him with Dunn. In order to get the youngster more playing time, he could spell Pierre a couple of games a week vs. right handers, and maybe even give Carlos a day a week off in RF. Why is none of this apparent to management? In fact, why wan't this the plan from the beginning?

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 27, 2011 -> 01:33 PM) I think you meant J.P. Riccardi. Not Mike Rizzo. Yes, thanks.

When Toronto's GM, J.P. Riccardi, just let the Sox take Rios and his contract, I was elated. Now I think most of us think that K. W. probably did the Blue Jays a big favor. His contract runs all the way to 2015 when a 13.5 million dollar option, or a 1 million dollar buyout, would complete this horrible deal. In the meantime, he will cost the Sox about $12.5 million a year. For my part, I've seen enough. The end of 2009, the second half of last year, and this horrendous start tell me that he is not worth $12 million now, and I doubt that he will be any better as that contract matures. He has pretty much gone down hill since the promising beginning of his career, and at 30, I doubt he will improve much from here. I wonder if the Yankees are desparate enough for pitching that they might agree to a swap of Granderson for Rios, if the Sox included Jackson. The Yankees would acquire a centerfielder to replace Granderson, and they would fill one of their big holes in the starting rotation. I understand that Granderson will probably not continue to hit homers at his current pace, but he is a left handed bat, and could either lead off, or bat in the middle of the order, providing the left handed presence that Dunn was supposed to give the Sox. Moreover, his contract is shorter, which I personally like. Then all they would have to do is find a way to get rid of Dunn's horrible contract, and his unbelievably bad performance in the A. L. What National League team is desparate enough for power and has anything the Sox could use? If there is such a potential deal out there, please Kenny, put us all out of our misery!!

This year's team has the same problem that the Sox had last year. They badly need a left handed threat in the middle of their right handed heavy lineup. Initially, Dunn was able to at least provide a left handed presence, even if he wasn't actually producing. However, it has now gotten so bad that I doubt any opposing pitcher is concerned about facing him, much less fears him. While I agree that Viciedo should be called up and given plenty of playing time, I think that move has to involve replacing Pierre. Viciedo is another right handed hitter, and that is not what the Sox need to fill the hole that Dunn has created. That is why Kotsay was allowed to play so much, even though he was so unproductive. It's the same problem. This team has got to find a left handed presence, and quick. They need to find a left handed hitter to bat 4TH or 5Th, between Quentin, Konerko, Alexei, Rios and Beckham. The only possible candidates on this team are Teahen, McPherson and Gallagher. I wouldn't be opposed to giving any of those guys a chance to bat 5Th. None of them are good enough to even consider for cleanup, but a guy like Gallagher might be able to hit 5th. He's a high OBP guy, with one more walk than strike outs. And he has gap power, with 18 doubles in just a quater of a season. He's played quite a bit of outfield in his career. Maybe they should call him up too. At least he wouln't lead the League in S.O.'s If the Sox really wanted to try something radical, they might bench Pierre, Dunn and Rios. Put Viciedo in LF. Lillibridge in CF, and leading off Gallagher moving around to spell Konerko and Quentin each a couple of games a week. He could DH the rest of the time. I'd love to see a lineup like this: CF Lillibridge 3B Vizquel RF Quentin 1B Konerko LF Gallagher DH Viciedo SS Ramirez C A. J. 2B Beckham I realize that this isn't going to happen because they're paying Rios and Dunn too much money to sit. However, I go back to what I've said before, which is that players should be held accountable. There is no excuse for a guy to be as bad as Dunn, unless he's hurt, in which case he shouldn't be on the field, in the first place. I mean really; leading the League in S.O.'s and striking out 9 consecutive at bats, while producing not much more than your part time utility speedster (Lillibridge). I don't care how much he's making, he can't be allowed to continue to kill this team's chances. We're nearing the end of the first third of the season. Enough is enough. The Sox are wasting way too many good pitching performances, just because high priced offensive players can't contribute. If you don't bench these guys, it sends the wrong signal to everyone in the organization. It says; "Don't worry, just get a big contract, and then you don't have to ever produce again. Just sit back and collect the money. Oh, and you young guys toiling the Minors, don't even think about being able to take away an established veteran's job. It isn't going to happen." I understand that this is common practice in baseball, but that doesn't make it right.

What a thoughtful and well reasoned post. It was very interesting. Thanks I'm just thrilled to see him hitting third in the lineup. I've been arguing for that all year. It just reinforces how bad Dunn has been. He's had the benefit of batting in front of Konerko and Quentin all season, and hasn't been able to capitalize on the opportunity. Carlos is a prototypical #3 hitter, and I hope that Ozzie realizes that, although he was quoted yesterday as saying that he intends to put Dunn back in that spot, as soon as he starts hitting. How frustrating? At this point, Dunn's only value is to break up the string of right handed hitters. Even then, the hole in the lineup that he represents may offset that benefit.

Given our lack of trading "chips", here's an idea that might be better than a trade: Bring up Gallagher and platoon him at leadoff with Lillibridge. Apparently, he knows the strike zone and has already drawn 25 walks in just 1/4 of a season, for a .389 OBP. His OBP is even better vs. right handers at an impressive .410. He has gap power and could play left. I understand that he has just average speed, but who cares, if he can get on base? Lillibridge is killing left handers again this season, after doing pretty well against them the end of last year. I think most of us are learning to love this kid. Some have pointed out that he would be overexposed playing every day. He has done much better vs. lefties, so playing just a few times a week shouldn't be a problem in that regard. This solution would result in Pierre being relegated to the bench, traded, or DFA'd. That alone gives this idea merit.

Why does a man as big and strong as Dunn have to try to hit home runs? Wouldn't he be better off to try to shorten his swing and just make contact more often? As strong as he is, I'm sure that plenty of his hits would leave the park, but they can't fly out of the park if he doesn't put the bat on the ball.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 21, 2011 -> 02:59 PM) I hate to pick on the one negative today, but I have no idea how a player as established and consistent in his career as Dunn is, can be this bad for this long. Dude, get it going. Dunn's only value to this team right now is his left handed "presence" in the lineup. He should never bat 3rd again until he starts hitting. Quentin should hit 3RD and Paulie clean up, then let Dunn hit 5th to break up the rest of the right handed hitters.

If Ozzie doesn't let Lillibridge take J. P.'s leadoff spot, I give up on him as the manager. This kid has earned more playing time, and Pierre should have done enough to play himself off this team. How long does a guy have to demonstrate that he's a better baseball player than a guy he should replace? Offense, speed, defense, the kid is doing it all, and that's without regular playing time, or a regular position. I know that he has never really shown anything until late last year, but he's not that old and has never had that much of a chance. How can you not be a fan of a guy who's doing everything he's doing? And while we're at it, let me fill out the lineup card for you Ozzie: LF Lillibridge 3RD Vizquel RF Quentin 1B Konerko DH Dunn SS Ramirez C A. J. 2B Beckham CF Rios

Why not start by trying to determine what the starting rotation could look like for the next couple of years? The Sox have Floyd, Sale, Humber and Peavy under their control, if they want them, for two years or more after this season. Humber only has one year of ML service time, so he could be an inexpensive back of the rotation starter for a long time. Buerhle and Jackson will be Free agents, and Danks only has one more year before also becoming a free agent. If the Sox could sign Danks to a long term contract, their pitching could be very good for the next 3 years. Jackson and Buerhle would be my personal choices to trade for young talent. I think that we have to root for both of them to do well, so that we could get something back from a contender, around the trading deadline. Who are the teams to which Mark would agree to be traded? The contract should not be that big of an issue to a contender. After all, it would only be for a part of this season. They wouldn't owe him anything next year, and could get the draft pick. What is the highest priority in a trade? I still think that a good left handed bat should be a priority. All of our decent prospects are right handed, as is everyone on the ML roster except Dunn.

I didn't finish reading all of the posts, but it should be noted that replacing Pierre with Viciedo would require another move. That's because Ozzie insists on a stolen base threat at the top of the lineup. Lillibridge is the only even slightly viable candidate for that spot. Therefore, you would have to find a place for Lillibridge in the infield, with Viciedo, Rios and Quentin in the outfield. As others have stated, McPherson is simply a left handed power bat off the bench, taking Teahen's place. Viciedo is right handed, and needs to play every day. There is nothing wrong with this move. The Pierre issue still has to be addressed, but this move is an entirely different matter. Is there anybody else around who the Sox could acquire to play either 3RD or 2ND and fill the lead off spot? Beckham could always go back to 3RD. I still like Lillibridge but it appears that Ozzie doesn't want to go that way. Unless we can find a prototypical leadoff hitter, Viciedo will not replace J. P. in LF. What a shame.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 17, 2011 -> 07:35 AM) If Joe Mauer read everything that was being said and whispered about him in Minnesota and let it get to him, he might never get another hit in the majors. These guys are used to dealing with criticism. They're professionals. It goes with the multi-million dollar guaranteed contracts. It's when it extends to 12-18 year olds, the recruiting and "shady agents" and criticism of basketball and football players, that's when I think it can have more of an effect by far than ANYTHING said at soxtalk or wsi or The Score or WBBM or written in the newpapers. I'm sorry, I should have put it in teal. I thought the sarcasm was obvious. My point was that if Ozzie talked about him the way most of us do, and the way some of us seem to think Ozzie should, it couldn't do much for the guy's confidence.