Lillian

Have you all seen these Gordon Beckham training videos? http://stacktv.stack.com/video.aspx?videoID=90594432001_666 Sorry, I misspelled "Training" in the thread title.

I think that this discussion should really begin with the question of where Dunn should hit. Once that issue is decided, the other pieces fall into place fairly easily. As I stated in another thread; Batting Dunn third diminishes the value that his left handed bat was intended to provide. He was acquired to fill the void of a left handed bat to break up the right handed heavy lineup. If Dunn bats third, you still have Konerko, Quentin, Rios, and maybe even Ramirez, hitting consecutively, and they're all right handed. Moving Dunn to clean up resolves that issue. Then the only qestion is who is better suited to bat 3rd? Rios is not even close to a prototypical number three hitter. He has never produced the kind of power numbers that are expected from that spot in the order. If he were the only power hitter on the team, perhaps it could be justified, but on this team it makes no sense. Moreover, I still like the idea of having a "second leadoff" hitter heading up the bottom half of the order. Rios would be perfect as a 6th hitter. He could still drive in the good hitters in front of him, and if he leads off, he is a threat to steal. That makes Quentin the default candidate for the third spot in the lineup, and if he hits anywhere near his 2008 performance, that is precisely where he belongs. A healthy, productive Carlos Quentin fits the bill of a number three hitter to the "T". To me the right, left, right combo of Quentin, Dunn and Konerko is the obvious choice. To answer those who say; "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", we should remember that they've only played two games, and the results are likely not the result of the batting order. When a team puts on that kind of dominant offensive demonstration, it's likely more the consequence of ineffective pitching.

Batting Dunn third diminishes his value as a left handed bat intended to break up the right handed heavy lineup. If he bats third, you could have Konerko, Quentin, Rios, and Ramirez hitting consecutively, and they're all right handed. Moreover, I still like the idea of having a "second leadoff" hitter heading up the bottom half of the order. Rios would be perfect as a 6th hitter. He could still drive in the good hitters in front of him, and if he leads off, he's a threat to steal, or initiate a hit and run. Pierre Beckham Quentin Dunn Konerko Rios A. J. Ramirez Morel

Well, I guess that will officially close the book on the Swisher fiasco. So, the Sox got nothing in return for Swisher. Both Marquez and Betimet released. Oh, they do still have Nunez, don't they? What a disaster. I was actually beginning to like Marquez. That 16/2 Strike out to walk ratio in S.T. looked pretty impressive. He appears to have recovered from his surgery, and even added a cut fastball. I don't see how this organization can afford to discard young, inexpensive, serviceable arms. But what do I know?

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 18, 2011 -> 11:46 AM) Our starting 5 is deeper than a lot of teams...this is discounted why? Because we don't have 30 crappy minor league starters that will probably never see the light of day in the majors?! Even if Peavy goes down, our remaining 4 are STILL deeper than what most teams have. I agree entirely. This year, the staff is good enough that even if someone were lost, it wouldn't be that hard to find another pitcher to be the 5th starter, with everyone else capable of moving up in the rotation. Next year, there will be several spots to fill. You might simply say; "Let's worry about next year, next year", and that's a reasonable position to take. My thought was that it would make sense to try to acquire a young quality arm now, as both insurance for this year, and to fill some of the holes that will need to be filled next season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 18, 2011 -> 10:58 AM) Look at the bats that became available last year for practically nothing. Ramirez, Burrell (who went on to win a title), Jose Guillen, probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting. Well, if it's so easy to come up with productive bats, then doesn't that argue for trading some offense for pitching depth? You wouldn't argue that finding pitchers is also a simple task, would you? I don't know who should be shopped, but it just seems there is not enough pitching depth this year, and going forward.

Jordan4life, So, just whom do the Phillies think they're going to get to provide the right handed offense they need, if they aren't willing to give up anything?

Are any of you worried about the pitching depth on this team? We all love the starting rotation, one through five, and the bullpen looks balanced and solid. However, is there even a single minor league pitcher in whom you'd have confidence to step up, in case someone got injured? Moreover, Buerhle and Jackson will be free agents at the end of the year, and Danks seems reluctant to sign a long term deal. That leaves Peavy, who has yet to prove that he can stay healthy, and Floyd who has yet to prove that he can be consistent. Of course, there is Sale, but he may be needed in the Pen, and no one knows if he can provide 30 starts, with that delivery. I'd feel much better if the Sox had one more, good arm, waiting in the wings. The Phillies have a lot of pitching depth, and are growing more desperate every day for offense. Their offense, particularly from the right side, has been a question mark ever since they let Werth go. Now Utley's knee has them very worried, and with Brown lost for a while with a broken wrist, which is always scary for hitters, they might be getting desperate. The Sox have suddenly become pretty deep in the outfield, with Milledge beginning to look like he might actually realize some of that long held promise, and Viciedo needing a spot when he recovers from his injury. Why not see what kind of pitching the Phillies would consider trading for Quentin? Oh I know, a lot of you will suggest trading Teahen instead. But come on, Phillies' management isn't that stupid. I love Carlos, and think that he could well get back on track. However, you have to give up something to get something. Perhaps the Phillies like Quentin too. In fact, didn't they try to acquire him in the off season? Would they be willing to part with a promising young pitcher, in exchange for a badly need right handed slugger? Austin Hyatt is intriguing, but I don’t know if he is regarded as a potential top of the rotation starter. Who else could provide a good enough return to consider trading Quentin? Does the idea of trading Quentin for more pitching make sense to you guys?

Thanks for the responses. I'm looking forward to following him and I'm hoping for big things. I'm always intrigued by a guy who has his kind of huge upside. I think we pretty much know what Teahen is, and Morel will likely never be a big power bat. Moreover, he's another right handed hitter. But adding a left handed bat of McPherson's potential is very intriguing, assuming that his potential is realized.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 2, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) You tell me... How many guys toil in the minors until they are 31 and then become starters at the major league level in some productive capacity? I wouldn't describe his effort as "toiling" in the minors. He dominated during his time there. The explanation for why he has not had more time in the Majors is quite simple. He has had one hip and two back surgeries. It's reasonable to question his health, which I do as well. However, is it really fair to say that he has already demonstrated that he can't play in the Majors?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 2, 2011 -> 11:46 AM) Oh course, McPherson proved he cant do it at the major league level, which is more of an indicator of what his contribution could be to the team. His minor league numbers are useless at this point since he's a know quantity at the MLB level. Is that really fair? He's only had 371 Major League at bats, all but 11 of those were before he turned 26. Don't you think that it's a little premature to judge his ability to play at the Big League level? Ted Williams used to say that it takes about 1,000 at bats for most guys to figure it out at the Major League level. What better source of wisdom on the subject can you consult than Ted Williams?

Neither Mark Teahen nor Brent Morel have ever posted offensive numbers, at any level of professional baseball, comparable to McPherson's 5 year stats at AAA. Therefore, the questions we should be asking are; Is he healthy? And can he translate those numbers at the Big League level? His injuries are the obvious explanation for why he has not yet had the opportunity to perform at the Major League level. Again, for me, he is a better option than Teahen. If the Sox decide to go with the defense, then Morel is the frontrunner. In any case, I think that it's an open competition at 3rd base. We'll just have to wait and see how Spring Training goes, and then how these guys perform once the season starts. I'll say this; if McPherson starts the season at AAA, I will be surprised if he is not the best hitter on the Knights, by far.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 2, 2011 -> 08:34 AM) Potential and Dallas McPherson? ?????? Would you please elaborate?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 2, 2011 -> 08:06 AM) One very simple question answers your question. Where would he play? Well, with the condition that he were healthy, and adequate defensively, third base. That would give the Sox one more big left handed bat, which they still lack, with Dunn providing the only real left handed threat. They're much better balanced in that regard than they were last year, but they are still very heavily weighted with right handed hitting. If they are still considering Teahen as a third base candidate, then why shouldn't they consider McPherson. He is probably better defensively, and has much more potential offensively than Teahen. If they simply want to go with the best defense at third, then Morel is the obvious choice. Vizquel should be a late inning defensive replacement, and their first option as backup at 3rd, SS and 2nd. I love Omar, but at 44, it just isn't realistic to expect him to be much more than that.

I've been very intrigued by the acquisition of Dallas McPherson, ever since his signing was announced. This guy was a "can't miss" prospect in the Angel's organization, before he hurt his back. Now seemingly healthy, after a couple of surgeries, it may not be too late for him to realize some of his potential. He dominated the minor leagues, with a homer every 12 at bats in 1,287 at bats in AAA, over his last 5 minor league seasons. His OPS was .966 over that time. Moreover, he didn't do that badly in his very limited Major League playing time. I understand that the Sox already have a bit of a log jam at 3rd base with Morel, Teahen and Vizquel, but if McPherson can stay healthy, he could be a major contributor from the left side, in the middle of the lineup. Does anyone have any real insight into his health? How is he defensively, when healthy?

He has been dominant vs. LH hitters in 5 of the last 6 seasons. He should be a big improvement over Williams as the LOOGY.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 03:41 PM) Nobody likes a snitch. All Oney would have had to do (if he HAD to say something) was point out that Bobby performed poorly and was given a greater opportunity than he'll likely find elsewhere at that same level of performance. Bobby Jenks was Doug Jones-ish last year. But instead of making it about baseball he made it about Bobby's personal life, crossing a line that hopefully will lead to JR sitting Ozzie down and telling him to reign in his POS kid or else. I'm not defending Oney, but I can appreciate how Jenks' comments would anger everyone in the organization.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 11:29 AM) I think you have to add in more of the full picture before you can compare Jenks to Hamilton. Let's hypothetically say that Hamilton had fallen off the wagon fully in 2009 (when he had that first few drinks and was wandering around asking if anyone has some coke, by his own description). Then, the Rangers cover for him. They continue investing money in him, continue giving him shots, don't bench him even while he's struggling, and finally let him go when his contract ends. They never say anything publicly about anything. Then, Hamilton comes out and criticizes the team for not giving him enough playing time. After all the covering for him that the team had done. You really would keep your mouth shut? If you were another player on that team, would you respect the team more if they continued to keep their mouth shut or if they stepped up and defended themselves? I'd find it much more pathetic if the team kept its mouth shut. You have focused the issue on the key point. No one disclosed any of Jenks' personal problems before. This recent disclosure is a response to Jenks' criticism of management for not having confidence in him. I think that you are absolutely right about how the other players would feel. Many of them may be as miffed at Jenks as Ozzie and Kenny probably are. Jenks is being an ingrate, and deserves to be called out. He let his team down by his off field behaviour, and has a lot of "chutzpah" to criticise the organization publically, after they covered for him for so long.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2010 -> 09:47 PM) There is now absolutely no need for KW or Guillen to say anything else negative about Jenks. They can legitimately take the high road and distance themselves from Oney's comments, and it doesn't matter because the message and some vague, 140 character summary of the facts are already out there. KW and Ozzie should chime in by decrying Oney's statements. All that would do is put more emphasis on them. That makes sense. Should we conclude that K. W., Ozzie, and perhaps even J. R., are privately condoning Oney's remarks, even if, as you suggest, we are likely to hear public protestations to the contrary?

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 18, 2010 -> 09:07 AM) The Vikings PBP guy and morning guy on KFAN in Minny loved the moved for the Sox and thinks Crain will be the closer. I doubt that he will close, except in situations where the hitters due up in the 9th are all right handed. It would be nice if he could be an effective closer though, as then Sale could be in the rotation. It wouldn't make any sense to make Sale the second best southpaw out of the pen, behind Thornton.

We shouldn't forget that the Metrodome had a lot to do with their prior dominance. Thankfully, at least the Sox don't have to contend with that obstacle anymore. I guess another possibility is to just compile such a better record than theirs, against every other team we play, so that even if they have a dominant record versus the Sox, they still can't catch us. At least we know that we wouldn't have to face them in the post season, if we can get there. No one has mentioned any player that has had an especially successful career vs the Twins, whom the Sox might try to acquire. Maybe they need to create a new position; "Designated Player vs. Twins". If the Sox do acquire another starting pitcher, I hope that he's really good against them. Then they should make sure that he gets a start in every series with Minnesota.

Thank you both for the great insight. That was exactly the kind of information which I was seeking. I did see somewhere that he is trying to acquire a good splitter. That's a much less stressful pitch than the slider, and very effective, isn't it?

Acquiring the Sox killing reliever, Jesse Crain, got me thinking about what else the Sox could do to improve their chances in head to head competition with the Twins. After all, the White Sox had a better record against the rest of the league than the Twins did last year, and no one did much better in inter league play than the Pale Hose did. It was the complete dominance of the Twins over the Sox that kept Chicago out of the post season. So, with that in mind, are there any additional, realistic moves that could still be made that might up the odds versus our division rival, or should I say 'nemesis'? To begin with, many would suggest that a big part of the problem is psychological. Perhaps Kenny needs to make his next signing a good, reliable, "shrink". But beyond Crain, and a good psychiatrist, what else would you recommend? Adding a player of Dunn's caliber should help in general, but we really have no idea how he will do against the Twins. Perhaps they should target a player or two with a history of playing especially well against Minnesota. None of our existing starting pitchers have done very well against the Twins in their careers. Even our good pitchers, in good years, haven't had much success. You would think that southpaws would have had the best success, with all of the Twin's left handed hitting, but neither Danks nor Buehrle has fared particularly well. Some of you will appreciate this little stat. Guess who was one of our very best hitters last year against the Twins. None other than my 'favorite' player; Juan Pierre!! He hit .333 with an OBP of .388. How about that? Put 'em in the middle of the order, whenever we face the Twins. Oh, and then you could bench him the rest of season, and use him as a pinch runner. Seriously though, any thoughts?

In reading the blogs, and articles on the Crain signing, there doesn't seem to be anything that addresses what accounted for Crain's second half season performance last year? Did he acquire a new pitch? Did he change his approach? From June to September, he faced 132 hitters and allowed just just 2 extra base hits, 1 double and 1 triple. That's pretty remarkable. Was his dominance a fluke, or can we reasonably expect him to continue to perform anywhere near that level? Of course, he will no longer be able to pad his stats versus the White Sox. I wonder if Konerko, A. J. and others were consulted before Kenny "pulled the trigger" on this signing. In that he seems to be equally effective vs left handed hitters, he could be a good candidate to close. Thornton and Sale could close in special situations, such as vs. the Twins when the scheduled hitters in the 9th inning are the big left handed bats in the middle of their order. The organization has already hinted that might be their thinking. Has anyone seen an explanation for why he improved so much during June to September?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 06:19 AM) There's no way Philadelphia would make that trade. I can imagine they do like Carlos Quentin, but probably more as a replacement for Raul Ibanez. If you want to include another player to get Dominic Brown, you are pretty much limited to Chris Sale and any other minor leaguers the Phillies may want. Carlos Quentin and Sale is too much to give for Brown. Wouldn't K.W. be crazy to even consider that?