Lillian

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 06:25 PM) My suggestion would be to leave it as is and not make it so complicated. You are going to be hard-pressed to find a better defensive arrangement than Pierre-Rios-Quentin. Pierre was fantastic defensively last year, Rios was good, but not great, and Quentin was awful. The only way logical way you can improve that is to get rid of Quentin, because even if you move him to LF, he's still in the outfield, and he's still bad (and I have a hunch, though it may be incorrect, that most flyballs go to left and left center, so you are going to want the superior defender out there anyways) Would you be satisfied with Quentin in Left, Rios in CF, and Andruw Jones in Right? That is not only a decent defensive outfield, but completes a very good team defense, with Carlos being the only weak link. You don't have to ask me who I'd have lead off in that scenario. I think you know the answer.

I'm still hoping that the Yankees spend big on Crawford. That should motivate them to dump Granderson and his contract. The Sox could then make an effort to acquire him, if they could dump Pierre and Teahen, and their salaries, which would pay for Granderson. There is your new leadoff hitter, and centerfielder. However, I'd settle for any good defensive outfielder, with a decent bat. I just don't like an outfield of Pierre, Rios and Quentin. Carlos is fine in Left, with Rios and a good glove roaming the rest of the outfield.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 06:02 PM) Ugh, again with the leadoff hitter thing. You do not build a team by selecting players for lineup slots. You build the team with the best offensively players you can (fitting your general plan, ballpark, etc.), and THEN make the lineup you think will work best. No, Pierre is not Ricky Henderson. No, he won't get on base at a .400 clip. But given the players the Sox have, no one else really makes any better sense right now. You do not go out and acquire a "leadoff hitter". I agree. The Sox don't need to acquire a lead off hitter. My argument starts with the need to improve the outfield defense, while retaining Quentin, who no longer has the option to be the DH. If Quentin is in the outfield, he should be in Left. Then you need a better outfielder to play RF, or move Rios to RF, and play a better fielder in CF. Pierre has no place in that scenario. However, if the outfield addition can provide some offensive production, then you have the luxury of Rios leading off. That is how I got there. What is your suggestion?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 05:40 PM) Then the highest priority is not having runners on base. No, it is still the highest priority for the lead off hitter, but Pierre does not excel at that. I would not expect him to have an OBP higher than his average for the last several years, which is around .330, although he did exceed that last year. I've beaten this "dead horse" enough. Let's just chaulk it up to a difference in philosophy about baseball. At any rate, I'm pretty sure that we won't have a chance to see anyone other than Pierre leading off, unless he is hurt or traded.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 05:37 PM) I don't know if you noted this...but Alex Rios's career OBP is .331, and it was .334 last year. Juan Pierre's career OBP is .347, and it was .341 last year. Yes, you're correct, and if Pierre could always lead off an inning, I would agree that he might be a better choice than Rios. The problem is that many times he will not be leading off, and then I would prefer that Rios be at the plate. I'd like to have a guy leading off who could get on base at a .370+ rate, but if not, then at least give me someone with gap power and the ability to drive in runs. It's just a difference in philosophy. I remember the 59' Sox. That team couldn't score runs, but they could manufacture a run with Aparicio leading off with a walk or a single, stealing second, and scoring on a perfectly placed single by Fox. Or, Fox would execute a perfect hit and run in the hole vacated by the second baseman covering the bag, with Aparicio running. Then someone would hit a sacrifice fly to bring "Little Louie" home from third. Those days are over. This is the American League, with the D.H. I think "Ozzie Ball" is over rated. Give me either a high OBP or Slugging %. A guy with neither, who is only good at running, should be a pinch runner.

For those of you who are Pierre fans, I personally don't care about the stolen bases. We are going to have a lot of thunder in our lineup, and the highest priority for our lead off hitter is to get on base. I want those Konerko, Dunn and Quentin home runs to come with one or more guys on base. Moreover, the Sox will have very good balance up and down the lineup. Pierre could very well be hitting with Beckham, Ramirez, or A.J. on base, and when he does, I will likely have no more confidence in his ability to do anything productive than I did last year. This team has a chance to score a lot of runs, especially if they can find a productive hitter to play either CF or RF, moving Quentin to LF. At that point, Rios could lead off, as I have advocated for some time. The Sox don't need to steal bases to manufacture runs, although Rios can do some of that as well. I'd be very happy to see Pierre moved, or relegated to a bench player, even if he is costing the Sox $5 million.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:09 PM) Yeah, all things considered (contract, age, and cost to acquire), I would surely take Gardner over Granderson. Quentin, Granderson or Gardner, and Rios is much better. The Yankees would be anxious to unload Granderson's contract, but not Gardner. We could afford to have one questionable defensive outfielder, if it's LF. Wouldn't you rather have Quentin's bat, rather than Pierre's?

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:32 AM) If the Yankees sign Crawford then I want the Sox to go after Gardner. If the Red Sox sign Crawford then I want the Sox to go after Ellsbury. And in either situation I'd love to see Pierre relegated to 4th OF or (preferably) gone. Thank you, thank you, thank you. A man after my own heart. Then you put Rios in RF, and Quentin in LF. What would they want in return?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 07:41 AM) The LA Times floated 8/$180 as a possible. They can't be serious. That is insane. He would be 38 at the end of that contract, and still earning $22.5 million per year!!! How many stolen bases would you guess he might have in his late 30's? His hitting is not nearly good enough to justify that kind of money, especially when he can no longer run like he's been able to run, up to this point.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Dec 3, 2010 -> 06:09 PM) Do you think that maybe he'd tell Boras to get something done with the Sox if he has a good season, given that he has only been successful when he pitched for an ALC club, or do you think he's gone after the season? I assume you mean that he's not going anywhere this offseason, but what about when he becomes a FA? Does anybody think that there is any chance that Jackson stays in Chicago past 2011? I believe that Jackson is short ML service time, with 4.07 years, and therefore will not be a free agent until after 2012. If the Sox offer him arbitration, he would still be theirs at the end of this coming season.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Dec 4, 2010 -> 02:04 AM) I am super pumped about this signing. I think this is going to be a huge boost for this club. Dunn is going to hit at least 53 homers for this team. Book it. I don't understand why some think that Dunn's homerun total will rise significantly. Washington's park is no bigger than the Cell. Remember, he will be coming to the American League. If there is one undisputable thing about Adam, it is that he is amazingly consistent. Therefore, I expect him to hit his perrenial 40 homers, no more, no less.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 05:38 PM) Just sign DLee and take the 2 comp picks for Pauly. Save the cash and spend it on the swiss cheese pen. Makes perfect sense to me.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 05:07 PM) You couldn't get anyone to take Pierre, LAD are paying a portion of his money anyway The Dodgers are paying $3.5 million of the $8.5 million owed. Therefore, Pierre will cost the Sox $5 million. If someone would take him, wouldn't you be happy to add that money to the payroll?

Why not dump Pierre, save the $5 million he would cost this year, and put that money in the bullpen? Rios could lead off. Vizquel and Ramirez platoon in the 2 hole. Quentin bats 3rd and plays LF Dunn hits clean up as the DH Paulie 5th Teahen 6th, in RF Beckham 7th Morel hits 8th when Vizquel sits Castro and any good defensive catcher share the 9th spot That's my order, unless they could dump Teahen and his salary, which could also go into the bullpen.

How can the Sox even consider trading Floyd for anyone other than a real difference maker? I don't ask that because I think Gavin is so good, but rather because the pitching staff would be so thin beginning in 2012, without at least both Floyd and Danks. With both Buerhle and Jackson in their last contract years, and Buerhle eligible for free agency, what would the Sox have left, if they trade Floyd? Peavy will likely be an expensive question mark for the duration of that contract. Danks and Sale is not enough of a core, and pitching is simply too expensive to acquire through free agency. Moreover, the Sox have a very thin farm system, with neither a lot of good pitching prospects, nor many trading chips. Don't they need to hang on to any good young, and locked up, pitchers?

This is some interesting scouting information on Stewart: http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball...k2k1030qrockies It's surprising to read, from several sources, that he is regarded as a good defensive player. That wasn't the impression that I got reading the posts in this thread. Could we be wrong about his glove?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 22, 2010 -> 01:24 PM) I highly doubt he defends as well as Pierre, and I also doubt that he has the bat control of Pierre. If it were up to me, I would prefer to get rid of both of them, but as of right now, Pierre is the more valuable player. Here I would respectfully disagree with you. De Aza is a much better outfielder than Pierre. He has equal speed, and a much better arm. He gets good reads and jumps, and takes good routes to the ball. He is a true center fielder, unlike Pierre, whom I'm sure neither of us would want to see anywhere but Left.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 11:28 PM) Taking his total line in AAA - .301/.368/.470/.838, 665 PAs, 42 2B, 9 3B, 13 HR, 27/35 in SB, 56 BB, 113 K - how much of that added power is due to playing in good offensive leagues? I think it's safe to decrease his average, as I don't think he's a .300 hitter at the MLB level. I think it's also probably safe to marginally decrease his power, his walks, and increase his strikeouts (just percentage wise, probably not total). Given approximately 600 plate appearances, it should be reasonable for him to put up something like .278 BA 30 2B 7 3B 8 HR 45 BB 110 K 5 HBP 5 SF right? That turns out to be a .278/.336/.402/.738 line. It probably favors RHP, so, again, he has use to a major league club. But take a standard deviation to that - say +-.15/+-.20/+-.30/+-.50 - and that line could be as good as .293/.356/.432/.788, or as bad as .263/.316/.372/.688. Unless he brings something exceptional to the table, such as defense [haven't heard anything great], speed [minors numbers suggest he can, but won't steal a ton], a bunting ability [i have no idea], or a huge RHP/LHP split [can't find anything conclusive right now], then there really is no point in starting De Aza. He's probably a 1 WAR...I don't know why people would be beckoning for that to be in the lineup, especially when the Sox have guys in all 3 spots that could be 2-3 times more valuable than De Aza himself. It's like people pleading for Lillibridge to be the everyday SS, when everybody knows that would be an absolutely terrible idea. Right. This is all pretty reasonable. However, as you point out, his stats are much more favorable vs. RHP. He has demonstrated an ability to hit really well vs RHP, especially for a centerfielder. The other thing is that he can also be a run producer, not simply a lead off guy. I'm not suggesting that he bat anywhere other than lead off or 9th, but as some of us have said, at least when he comes up with guys on, he has the ability to drive the ball somewhere, unlike Pierre.

Thank you, "Joeynach" and "Lostfan". I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one who felt that way watching Pierre. At least de Aza has gap power. Those 83 RBI's over his last 166 games at AAA suggest that he's a capable run producer. A guy like Pierre, who can't drive the ball, really needs to walk a lot more, beat out lots of infield hits, including bunts. The older he gets, the less he's going to be able to do that. He used to average 50 infield hits per season, including over 20 bunt singles. That's how he managed to hit .327 a couple of times in his youth. I'm afraid those days are behind him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 01:52 PM) If you really think Ozzie will not start Pierre next year, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. But yes, I had a bad feeling when Pierre was up with RISP. Just in general, the lineup you suggested seems more like a team that would compete with Royals instead of Twins. You're an astute fan. Given the limitted minor league talent, and financial resources, in the organization, how would you suggest that KW try to compete with the Twins?

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 12:57 PM) WHAT? What I mean is that, as a lead off hitter, playing CF, de Aza would not have to be a big run producer. If he could get on base at anywhere near the rate at which he did vs RHP in AAA, and be a stolen base threat, that would be acceptable. Even if he could come within 50 points of his .420 OBP, and post a .370 OBP vs RHP, wouldn't you be thrilled? The Sox could always use Pierre vs. LHP, if de Aza struggled too badly in that role. Last year, Juan actually hit southpaws better than right handed pitchers. De Aza is a better fielder than Pierre, although I must admit that Juan surprised many of us last season, with some pretty decent defense. However, de Aza has a much better arm, and is a better outfielder, who has always been known for his defense. He's a true center fielder. More importantly, he has extra base pop, which Juan does not possess. I'm sure that you know Pierre had just 18 doubles in 734 PA's. Don't you agree that is just unbelievably awful for a guy with speed? Add 3 triples and 1 homer, for a grand total of 22 xtra base hits in 734 PA's. I don't know how you felt last season, but anytime he came up with men on base, I had no expectations of anything good happening. With capable hitters like Beckham and Alexei at the bottom of the order, the Sox should have a more productive guy leading off, one who can drive them in, or at least advance them. Pierre is very one dimensional. He can run. But remember, he's getting old, and at 34, could well slow down more than he has already.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 11:14 AM) Really...an 88 win team with Matsui substituted for Kotsay at DH? That's a 90+ win team. Fix the disaster that was the closer's spot and you're right there. Well, you and "Fathom" don't seem to agree. I like it, but what do I know? The defense would be very good. You fill the hole that Kotsay represented with a real middle of the order RBI producer from the left side, who can also hit southpaws. And, you don't have to trade anyone, especially any of the pitchers. Didn't the Giants just reaffirm all of the old saws that extol the virtues of pitching? You know, "Good pitching will stop good hitting", "Pitching is 80% of the game", etc? The Sox would be pretty deep in pitching, providing they could sign Putz, and assuming Peavy can come back by May or early June. Let me say one more thing about the much maligned de Aza: This guy was a top prospect, who was plagued by injuries. He is still young, and seems to have proven that he can play, based upon his last two seasons at AAA. What more does he have to do to demonstrate that he is a viable Major League candidate to play CF? He doesn't need to be a top offensive player at that position, especially leading off.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 09:39 AM) Holy cow would that team suck. I'm also pretty sure I heard where de Aza is terrible against LHP. I do like the construction of your post in general, just not the players mentioned. Well, thanks for the kind words regarding the "construction of the post". Which players, other than de Aza, don't you like? Aside from de Aza for Pierre, it's basically last year's team with Matsui substituted for Kotsay at DH. Oh, wait a minute. I guess maybe that does suck.

After discovering how well the Sox hit right handed pitching last year, despite not having a left handed presence in the lineup, I don't think that they need to acquire 2 left handed hitters. Given the limited financial resources, why not just try to sign Matsui and make him the DH? Put him in the middle of the order, where his ability to drive in runs would be maximized. It should be noted that he has always been almost equally capable of hitting LHP. Move Rios to RF and Quentin to LF. Now I know that all of you are going to get hysterical over this, but I would like to see De Aza get a shot at CF. He is a very good outfielder with a decent arm and great speed. He kills RHP, and is probably the closest thing our minor league system has to a Major League ready hitter. As high as some are on Viciedo and Flowers, their production the last two years isn't anywhere near De Aza's. Over the last two seasons at AAA, appearing in a total of 166 games, which is basically one season's worth of playing time, he has compiled a pretty impressive set of numbers: 42 Doubles, 9 Triples and 13 HR's, while hitting .301 with an OBP of .368. He also drove in 83 runs, while mostly leading off!!!! That is very good offensive production for CF. He is a capable base stealer, and would represent a decent threat in the lead off spot. Although they are not showing his split stats for last season on the Knight's website, I seem to remember that he hit about .340 vs RHP, with an OBP around .420 He will only be 27 this Spring, and should just now be coming into his prime. Wouldn't you like to see what he could do, instead of watching Pierre's "Punch and Judy" hitting? I'd prefer an outfield of Quentin in LF, de Aza in CF, and Rios in RF. Bring back Paulie, DH Matzui, sign either A. J. or Olivo, sign Putz to be the closer, and the Off Season is complete. Line up vs RHP: CF de Aza 3B Vizquel RF Rios 1B Konerko DH Matsui LF Quentin C A. J. 2B Beckham SS Ramirez Line up vs LHP CF de Aza SS Ramirez RF Rios 1B Konerko DH Matsui LF Quentin C Castro 2B Beckham 3B Morel Teahen is your primary bench player, and LH pinch hitter. Pierre is a back up outfielder, and pinch runner, unless you can trade him, perhaps with Jenks for something useful. That is a relatively realistic, and modest off season agenda, which would not involve having to issue any big long term contracts, or trade any of the precious few Major League resources.

Granderson has always been very bad versus left handed pitching, posting a career avg. of just .215, OBP .274, SLG .346, and .621 OPS. If they acquire him, he'd better sit vs southpaws.