Lillian
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Posts posted by Lillian
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Indications that Bloom is negotiating, albeit; in public:
Initial offer: Trade Price and his entire contract, for another team's prospects.
First update: Doesn't want to include any other players, but agrees to pay down a part of Price's contract. Still looking for something back from the other team.
Stay tuned for more concessions. ???
4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:If I had to guess, the sawx FO is waiting for KW/RH to get desperate and stoopid.
The sawx had to see how KW/RH stupidly gave away valuable pieces for Shields and Samardzjia, and are waiting to rip off the SOX.
I hate the idea of these imbeciles making a trade, particularly given their rich history of abject failure in this area.
I hadn't thought about that. Good point. Let's hope that they learned their lesson, and they might be well advised to inform Bloom of their acquired wisdom: "We made that mistake, but we won't do it again".
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2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:
I wish the Sox would add a SP from FA. That might help with more leverage, as they don't come across as desperate for pitching then.
Good point. If they really think they could use two, sign one now and continue to negotiate with Bloom, for Price.
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11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
The given quote makes it sound like if they had a team that would take on Price's full contract but they had to give up players from their system, and they had another team that would take on $60 million of Price's deal without them giving up anything else, they'd take the latter option. Which makes sense, I would prefer to avoid sending out players in their situation also.
I wouldn't take any statement from Boston at face value, with perhaps the one exception of something that represents a concession. The stated "demands" are likely merely posturing. I continue to believe that Bloom's #1 priority is offloading salary obligations. If he can dump $96 million, in one transaction, I think that he might consider that a success. From Hahn's perspective, he may be just as happy to take Price and money, but I suspect Bloom would favor not having to include $60 million, as that does not satisfy his primary objective. I can see why he would suggest that. He may be trying to look less desperate to be offloading salary. That would be a smart negotiating tactic. However, think about it; the whole point of trading Price and the biggest reason Bloom was brought in, was to get the team payroll under control. Adding $60 million to the deal does not go nearly as far toward achieving those objectives.
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2 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:
So traderumors just posted a story about Red Sox getting under luxury tax. They don't want to attach prospects to Price but said.. "They are, however, willing to pay down Price’s contract to get it closer to $20MM per year rather than the current $32MM". What is consensus for Price at 3/60. Imo that is solid value, helps hit the window and shouldn't cost too much at all prospect wise. I would honestly take that over Keuchel and the rotation starts looking a lot better.
Ok, we are beginning to make progress. Bloom continues to "insist" that they don't want to attach prospects, however they appear to be openly recognizing that Price's value is considerably less than his contract. So, now we have established two critical factors; 1) Bloom admits that Price is worth substantially less than his contract and 2) that he is desperate to unload salary. Any buyer should be asking Boston what they can do to make it attractive for a team to accommodate their pressing need to unload that contract. Sending anything of value back to Boston shouldn't even be in the discussion. I suspect that the most enticing offer to Bloom would be one which did not ask for the contract to be paid down.
If I were Hahn, I would tell Bloom the following: We understand that you really want to offload a considerable amount of salary obligations. We agree with your statement that David Price is worth less than the $96 million contract. You concede that it's at leat $36 million dollars more than Price's value. We have consulted various analytics, which assert that it is closer to $50 million over his value. How much would you value being able to reduce your payroll by $96 million, over the next 3 years? We would be willing to take that entire contract off your hands, but we would need to receive enough value back, in return. Which player, or players can you offer to include in the deal, in order to fairly compensate us for the overpayment on Price's contract? You have stated that you do not want to include prospects. We would consider an established player, instead of prospects, if said player's value, is at least as high as his salary, plus the approximately $50 million of excess cost to us, in relieving you of your ageing pitcher and your obligation to pay his contract.
If Bloom wants to negotiate. the only points worthy of discussion are the exact amount of the excess cost, over value, of Price's contract and exactly which player we would accept from Boston, to be included in the trade.
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4 minutes ago, pcq said:
Red Sox plan to keep Bentendo. There are other suitors for Price.
That's what Boston says. Count me as a cynic. I'll believe it, when I see it.
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1 hour ago, sox71 said:
This will drive the analytics departments crazy in any organization. A $60 million gap in value. If that is true, I do not know how this trade is ever made if an organization has truly bought into analytics. Seems according to this that it would cost more than just Benintendi............... Just want the White Sox to get some pitching without giving up Vaughn or Madrigal, if not, those two losing seasons were even more of a failure. Just waiting with the rest of you! Have a great day.
It's hard to comprehend why anyone would think that a team should be willing to include any decent prospect, in a deal for Price and Benintendi. Even if the analytics are off slightly, there is no rational argument for a team to agree to take that awful Price contract, without Boston adding something of value, and without requiring any player in return. I assume that every front office is aware of the analytics and gives them credence. Therefore, I will be shocked if Bloom gets his way.
Moreover, I suspect that every GM realizes that they can bargain from a position of strength. As I've repeatedly stated, the buyer has the leverage here. It's the seller who needs to get this done. My questions are; how many teams would accept Price and Benintendi, while agreeing to not demand any money back, and if there aren't any teams willing to do that, how much more might a team be able to squeeze out of Boston?
I understand that there is always the possibility that Boston would agree to add some money to the deal, in order to get Price's contract moved, or even to acquire some prospects. However, I suspect that Bloom would prefer to get the maximum salary relief, which is apparently the primary motivation for the deal, to begin with.
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10 minutes ago, SCCWS said:
Another wildcard is the Cole signing. Yankees will go into ST as the prohibitive favorite. It will be interesting to see what Boston will now do from a payroll standpoint.
In the Dombrowski era, the Red Sox would be spending, to keep pace with the Yankees. However, their new GM was brought in to get their fiscal house in order. For the first time, in a long time, it appears that Boston will not be spending recklessly. The money they do spend is apparently intended to be allocated toward things like retaining Betts. It is clear that shedding Price's contract is a high priority. That is the most important point.
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1 minute ago, SCCWS said:
Two thoughts: There are 5 teams interested but we don't know how interested. If 3 or 4 are truly interested, Bloom has some leverage. Price appears to be liked by his teammates but is not very popular w fans and he has a lot of media issues. He is regularly trashed on Boston sports shows.
I know which other teams are reportedly interested. The question is; are they smart enough to understand that it's a buyer's market, for Price, because Boston needs to unload salary?
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Is the consensus here that, if Price were a free agent, with no qualifying offer attached, that he would get approximately $20 million per year, if it were a 3 year deal? If so, then Bloom has to know that Boston is either going to have to add a player, or money, to get a team to bite. I hope that other GM's understand that. It's not only about his value, it's about the degree to which the seller is motivated. It is obvious that Bloom is highly motivated.
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24 minutes ago, SCCWS said:
As I posted earlier, every media type has another take from their "source"
Feinsand notes that the Red Sox have no desire to attach a desirable young player such as Andrew Benintendi to Price in order to simply shed the remainder of his contract. The Athletic’s Chad Jennings offers a similar sentiment (subscription required). “I don’t think we’d ever want to rule anything out,” chief baseball office Chaim Bloom of parting with prospects to help facilitate a Price trade (quote via Jennings). “But so much of what we’re always going to be trying to accomplish, but certainly now, is to make sure we have as strong a farm system as possible.”
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/david-price-trade-rumors-red-sox-padres-wil-myerss.html
Of course, the Red Sox "have no desire" to attach a desirable young player. News flash for Boston; No team has a desire to bail you out of an albatross contract, just as a giant favor. If you want to off load salary, make a reasonable offer. If not, "go pound sand," as someone here said earlier. Enjoy paying your 34 year old pitcher, $32 Million per year, for the next 3 years. If they thought that they were going to "desire" to get out of the last 3 years of that deal, they should have insisted upon a team opt out, when they wrote up the contract. Seriously, I still suspect that it's just posturing. Bloom was brought in to get that payroll under control. I think he eventually gives in, if teams can be patient.
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If they acquired Benintendi, I'd use the following line up, vs RHP:
2B Madrigal (If he's successful and getting on base and stealing - if not, he bats 2ND, as a good hit and run guy and TA hits leadoff and steals bases)
3B Moncada LH
DH Eloy
1B Abreu
C Grandal LH (McCann gets the playing time vs. LHP)
SS Anderson
LF Benintendi LH
CF Robert (Just as a rookie - ultimately much higher in the order)
RF Mazara LH (He sits against LHP - Benintendi plays RF & Eloy goes to LF)
Collins has no place on this roster - Next year, he could take over for McCann, if he is not resigned.
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What kinds of offers are being made for Price? Are most teams asking Boston to kick in money, or another player? Do any teams appear willing to send the Red Sox any decent prospects?
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1 minute ago, wegner said:
Bryan Mata is their #3 prospect according to Pipeline and a pitcher. If they want to ask for our top prospects...2 can play that game.
Including prospects, going both ways, complicates any potential deal. I still think that this is about Boston shedding that contract and that will likely be the key. I have read that the Boston front office is insisting that they don't want to include Benintendi, but that could simply be posturing. As you and I have said, if Bloom is desperate enough, he may have to give in to the buyer's demands. The problem is that there might be some GM dumb enough to agree to Bloom's demands. He is in no position to demand anything. Let's hope that Hahn realizes that.
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3 minutes ago, tray said:
I will bet Walker is very happy to essentially be going home (I think he is from Oklahoma). That was a good trade for the Sox, for the Rangers, and for Walker. Likewise, Mazara will benefit from a new hitting coach and a new opportunity here.
That's water over the bridge though. If we get AB in a Price deal then Mazara can be our DH and our lineup will be formidable from top to bottom.
Is Benintendi's arm good enough for RF? I know that he's a better outfielder than Mazara, but Mazara does have a plus arm. Having an adequate arm is more critical in RF, than speed, range and the ability to get good jumps. It would not be acceptable to have opposing teams running with confidence, on our right fielder's arm.
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2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:
Bentendo had an OPS+ of 100. So I hope he could pick things back up.
I'm not absolutely fixated on Benintendi. My position is that we should be able to get someone, with additional value and usefulness, if we agree to take on all of Price's contract. Is there another realistic candidate, who would be a better choice?
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3 minutes ago, wegner said:
I always like when I am on the same side of the argument as you, Lillian...you are always so level headed.
Thanks. Now let's see if Bloom and Hahn agree with us. LOL. They are probably a lot smarter and certainly better informed than we are.
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12 minutes ago, wegner said:
Hahn is reminding me of a bad hitter who is up with the bases loaded and nobody out. He has all the advantages yet he approaches the at bat like the pitcher is the one in command of the situation. The Red Sox need to get some financial flexibility and we can provide that but we do not have to. We have the upper hand, do not give up anything of value IMHO.
Absolutely correct. If there is another team, dumb enough to bail out Boston, and agree to give the Red Sox any meaningful prospects, let them be the suckers. This only makes sense, if we get someone extra of value, and don't have to give up anybody who matters.
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3 minutes ago, poppysox said:
Makes me mad if RH didn't hang up the phone.
I agree. That's nuts. If Bloom wants salary relief, he shouldn't be expecting any top prospects back.
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I can't imagine that Boston would be willing to include Rodriguez. They still have control over him, for 2 more years, and he's very good. Isn't he considered by them, to be a key part of their rotation?
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13 minutes ago, steveno89 said:
Long story short, no club is going to be touching the Price contract unless the Red Sox pay down a gigantic portion of it, or attach Rodriguez or Benintendi potentially.
You are probably right. The question is; Would you rather have some money back from Boston, or try to pry another player from them? Then, which player? I suspect that Bloom would prefer to get the maximum salary relief, and add another player.
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1 hour ago, SCCWS said:
This article states precisely what I have surmised. The Red Sox primary goal is off loading the salary. I don't think that they are looking for prospects. Our Sox are ideally positioned to take on Price, whom we could use, and that awful contract. We can probably beat out any of the competition, providing we don't demand any money. Again, whom could we accept, as the carrot, to do this favor, for Bloom?
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I thought that the motivation and urgency for Boston was to shed payroll. I think that is more important to them than acquiring prospects. The whole reason it would make sense for these two teams to make a deal is that Boston needs to unload salary and our Sox have the significant payroll flexibility. Therefore, what would likely entice Bloom the most would be to take on the entire Price contract. If we do that, they would probably not need any prospects, save perhaps a lesser guy, just to save face, with their rabid fan base. Now, the question is; Which player would we accept and they be willing to include, in order to entice Hahn to accommodate Bloom's desperate desire to off load that Price contract?
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My goodness. Mazara is not a "reclamation project," nor is he merely a "prospect". Please, some perspective is called for, here. He is a young player, who was brought up to the Big Leagues, very early in his professional career and has already performed well enough to be considered a bonafide Major Leaguer. However, given his age, there is still room for more production, and a reasonable chance that he can tap into what is, regarded by many to be, significant untapped potential. He has already put up at least one season that was very impressive, especially for a player who was only 22 at the time. He was injured for a month of the season, last year, but still hit respectably. I just can't understand the hyperbolic reactions to the loss of one of our several young outfield prospects. While Walker may have been ranked above guys like Adolfo, Basabe and Rutherford, he was not clearly that much better of a prospect. They are all in the same tier.
Moreover, if the more important objective of the front office is to shore up the pitching, this move only means that they have more money to allocate for the rotation, than they would have, if they had spent big on a right fielder. For me, it all hinges upon what they can accomplish, in the pitching department. I understand that several of the top arms are already off the board, however there are other viable options, especially if the Sox employ the strategy of taking on another team's big contract. That approach offers several advantages. The remaining years are almost certainly going to be less than the length of the new contracts being signed. In addition, there are no draft picks sacrificed. And finally, as I mentioned elsewhere, teams who are saddled with large burdensome contracts, in need of shedding salary, could be sufficiently motivated, even desperate, to unload a viable piece for our rotation. Think Price, from the Bosox.
The point is that any conclusions, regarding this off season, are very premature. Isn't the best approach to simply be patient and see what unfolds?
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I thought that the Heyman comment had been clarified and that it was intended to apply to the Rangers, not the Sox. Texa is after Rendon, and this move is ostensibly constructive toward that end.
Bumgarner and AZ nearing 5 yr deal per Passan
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted · Edited by Lillian
I'm beginning to suspect that Hahn has a deal in place with Bloom. Otherwise, it does appear that they aren't getting anything, other than a bottom of the rotation starter. It also wouldn't surprise me if they bring back Nova, who had expressed a strong desire to return.