Lillian

Yes, the Sox have a lot of outfielders, but only Jimenez is really near ready. Basabe, Adolfo, Rutherford, Gonzales and maybe even Robert, are a ways away. Anderson and Moncada, are already establishing themselves on the parent club. Regarding Harper; if it will take that much money, to sign him, I agree with your assessment that it's hard to see the Sox making that kind of commitment, and I would echo their reluctance. Moreover, if both Moncada and Anderson turn out to not be productive players, this rebuild is going to be in serious jeopardy.

Machado is no longer the best use of the vast financial resources, which would be required to obtain him. I would much rather pursue Harper. He fits the Sox plan, much better. He is an outfielder and bats left handed. Those are two good reasons, for starters. In 2020, I could see Harper in RF, Robert in CF and Eloy in LF.

We should anticipate that, by 2020, the infield will consist of Moncada, Anderson and Madrigal. The question is, where do those 3 best profile? Moncada's personal preference aside, it's pretty hard to refute the argument that the best use of those 3, would be Moncada at third, Anderson at SS and Madrigal at second. Does anyone have valid reasons, to the contrary?

Well, he would have to really be bad, to simply DFA him.

He won't have enough of an opportunity to establish his trade value, so he will likely be the starting right fielder, next season. Then what could transpire, if Lopez, Kopech, Giolito and a healthy Rodon keep the Sox in contention, and Avi has a good first half, is that they could face the dilemma of either trading him before the trade deadline, or keeping him, for the final stretch of the race. If Eloy has already been called up, he could certainly take over in RF, but having both Avi and Jimenez in the lineup could be the preferred strategy, if the Sox are indeed competing. Of course, If the Sox falter, out of the gate, all of that would be a mute point.

Apparently, you have not read all of my posts, in this thread. If so, you have misunderstood me.

My guess is that Madrigal has all of the tools to be a very good SS, with the one exception of his arm. He is supposed to have terrific hands, and he is very quick. His range will likely be very good. Given his high baseball acumen, and previous experience at SS, he should be very capable at turning the double play. His one questionable defensive tool will be his arm strength, which will impede his ability to make throws from deep in the hole, at short. In any case, we will soon find out, as they plan to let him start at short. Regarding his height; a hitters power has more to do with bat speed, than his size. Moreover, "size" is not measured exclusively in height. There are some very strong guys, who are not tall. In Madrigal's case, I have no idea how strong his hands are and what kind of bat speed, he generates. That will determine whether, or not, he will be able to produce any kind of power. However, power is not his game, and if he begins to focus upon things like launch angle, with that goal in mind, it would be a mistake. His role will be to see a lot pitches, get on base, and provide a threat to steal, thus distracting the pitcher. Those are the lead off hitter's responsibilities and that is what we should all be hoping that he can provide. How many homers he hits is of little importance. In any case, the difference between his hitting 7 or 8 long balls, versus 10 to 15, is not significant. Adding 5 more homers per year, from your lead off hitter, is hardly a difference worth worrying about.

This is the most valid point, made so far, in this discussion of Madrigal's hitting skill. I frankly hope that he does not try to elevate balls. That is not his game. His value will be on making contact, using his speed and getting on base. I suspect that his ability to barrel up pitches will diminish somewhat, once he begins to face Major League pitching. Although he rarely strikes out, he also does not walk, as much as he should. At his height, his strike zone is pretty small. He should be able to draw more walks, and I would expect his OBP to be around .400. If he does that, sees a lot of pitches and then provides a legitimate stolen base threat, he could be a fantastic lead off hitter. If anyone can learn to be more patient and learn to draw more walks, it is a guy with his kind of baseball acumen.

On May 29, 2017. he fractured the index finger on his left hand. He missed quite a bit of time.

A few things, which you may not know, that are worthwhile to note: 1) He was a pretty good pitcher and he does have a decent arm 2) He is not as slow, as some of us are suggesting and he is a good base runner 3) He hits lefties, almost as well as RHP. He should not be platooned 4) He mashed in the Minors and his hit tool has never been in question 5) His work ethic is exemplary and he is a good athlete. I hope that the hard work, which he has been applying toward learning to play the outfield, will earn him more playing time. You all know that a dangerous left handed, middle of the order bat, has been my perennial quest. Maybe he can be that guy. He is a more likely candidate than Delmonico, whom I love, but who does not possess any where near Palka's power. The exit velocities, which we have been seeing, are no fluke. He absolutely "mashes" and has terrific opposite field power. The other day, I suggested that he work with Thome, to exploit the shift. There are a lot of hits, through the left side of the infield, and he can easily hit the ball over the left field fence.

Stone just made the same observation, which I suggested, the other day. Soria seems to have adopted Shields' lower arm slot, for that breaking pitch and it is working. Here was my post, about which I feel even more confident, now: "I wish more pitchers pitched with his kind of finesse and cunning. Did you notice that Soria was throwing a few similar pitches, in his Friday night's relief appearance? He would do well to try to emulate Shields' approach, as he too has lost his heater, at this stage in his career. Again, even guys can throw a legitimate fastball, could benefit from such innovations. Trying to simply blow everyone away with 95 + mph fastballs, doesn't seem to work as well as it used to. There are too many guys throwing that hard and hitters appear to have adjusted to those speeds."

There seems to be some debate about how tall Nick is. His dad says 5' 7". I wouldn't be surprised if he is even shorter. However, I don't view it as a negative. Remember, smaller strike zone, and shorter path for the bat to the hitting zone.

Well, the fact that so many teams have passed on Singer, should shut KW up. He can't complain that his staff picked Madrigal, and passed on Singer. The rest of us, who also opposed Singer as our first selection, should feel vindicated, as well.

How do you reconcile that assessment with the fact that most scouts seem to say that Singer is a #2, or 3 starter? Mize is considered a potential Ace.

Relevant to my question, regarding where Singer would rank, on our list of prospect pitchers, since most of you agree that he would be behind all of our top guys, except perhaps Dunning, that would suggest that Brady wouldn't be fast tracked. He could conceivably be stuck in the farm system, for quite a while. There are too many good prospects in front of him. Seems a shame to draft a guy that high, only to have him stuck at AAA. Oh yes, I know, they can trade one, or more of their pitchers. Bottom line, for me, is to take a pitcher at #4, he should have Ace potential. Otherwise, I'd rather pick a position player.

Do you really believe that Madrigal could play anything but middle infield, and be a plus defender? I personally see him as an elite defender, at 2ND and an average defender at SS. I just don't think he profiles as a third baseman. Of course, I haven't seen enough of him to have much confidence in that assessment. It's just my impression. Hosteler's insistence aside, regarding "not even considering the MLB roster," if they draft Madrigal, it would be pretty foolish to put him at third, while leaving Moncada at second. It makes so much more sense to have them switch positions. Of course, that is assuming that he is able to be fast tracked to the Big Leagues. That could become an elite defensive infield, by around 2020.

If they select India, where would you guess that he would be ranked, in the Sox Farm system?

If that is true, why not pick India? Would you prefer him, to Singer?

If the Sox were to pick Singer, where would you guess that he would be ranked, relative to the rest of the young arms, in our system? Would he be ahead of any of our top 4 pitching prospects (Kopech, Hansen, Cease or Dunning)? My guess would be that he might be ranked ahead of Dunning, but none of the others.

Sounds alright to me. Maybe they'll consider Rodon the veteran presence. Teams rarely go with 5 very inexperienced starters. Where we disagree is in your assumption that they won't be "going for it next year". It will be the last year of Abreu and Avi's contracts, and with the addition of Eloy, they have enough pieces, providing that they get good enough pitching.

What kind of contract do you expect it will take to sign someone like Santana, for example?

If the Sox intend to sign one veteran, to be in next year's rotation, it will likely require a multi year contract, for anyone decent. By picking up Shields' option, they limit the commitment to one year, which should be ideal to bridge the gap to 2020, when Cease, Hansen, Dunning and Stevens should be ready to join Kopech, Lopez and Giolito.

It is easy to understand the "Shields hate". He was absolutely terrible, trying to pitch the way he had always pitched, during his successful years, when he had a legitimate fastball. However, watching him pitch this season, he is not the same guy. He and Lopez have been our most consistent starters, and it is not by luck. His new approach is effective at getting Big League hitters out. How much he would be worth, is a question that can be argued. However, to say that he is worthless, and to be so convinced that he should be jettisoned, as a mere salary dump, is not a very thoughtful conclusion. I wish more pitchers pitched with his kind of finesse and cunning. Did you notice that Soria was throwing a few similar pitches, in his Friday night's relief appearance? He would do well to try to emulate Shields' approach, as he too has lost his heater, at this stage in his career. Again, even guys can throw a legitimate fastball, could benefit from such innovations. Trying to simply blow everyone away with 95 + mph fastballs, doesn't seem to work as well as it used to. There are too many guys throwing that hard and hitters appear to have adjusted to those speeds.

Shields has been very impressive. He is a real "pitcher," relying on command, movement and changing speeds. That new arm slot was a huge discovery for him. As disgusted and disappointed, as I was with the trade that brought him to the Sox, I have come to appreciate what he has achieved. I wish more guys would try to experiment with such innovative approaches. Imagine how well a guy, with a 95 mph fastball, could pitch, if he had the rest of Shields' current arsenal. Maybe Giolito should adopt something similar, as his heater has become very pedestrian. If James can impart some of his knowledge and skill, to his young team mates, he will have earned his salary. As for his future with the Sox, I wouldn't be upset if they can get someone worthwhile, for him. Otherwise, he may have value, both as a mentor, as well as an innings eater. In any case, I would consider resigning him, for another year. If he is not traded, I'd like to see the Sox pick up that $16 million option. It would really only be $14 Million, as the buy out is $2 Million, which is a sunk cost, if they elect not to pick up the option. If next year, they could feature Rodon, Kopech, Lopez, Giolito and Shields, they could be competitive, while affording the rest of the young arms time to develop in the Minors.

The notion that Madrigal could be another Altuve is not likely to transpire. Jose is a rare talent and the odds of there being another one like him are not the kind of odds, that I would bet on. If Madrigal can be a good Major League second baseman, that would make him a worthy pick. However, if you are hoping that he is going to be like Altuve, you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment.