Lillian

Well, I just watched the video of Yolmer's homer. It was another blast, way back. That little guy has got some pop.

I didn't see this Yolmer homer, but a couple of his recent bombs have been "way back". He didn't look like he was swinging that hard, either. He appears to have more power than most of us thought. I'm eager to see the replay of tonight's homer.

Jose will probably be the #3, or 4 hitter and veteran leader, for the young contending club in 2019 and I believe that they will try to extend him. If he stays in his current shape, which is perhaps the best he's been since coming to the States, the front office may have confidence in his ability to be productive, into his mid 30's. I suspect that by then, he will be the DH. He is the clubhouse leader, especially for the Latin players, particularly Jimenez, Robert and Moncada. It wouldn't surprise me if Hahn sees both Abreu and Avi as part of the core, going into their window of contention. I'm not a big fan of having the entire team be kids. They are going to need some leadership. It would be hard to go out and bring in another veteran, who would be as effective in that role. But then, I guess most of you have already concluded the same thing.

I agree that Moncada needs all the at bats he can get, if the clock is going to be running, on his service time. Next year is a chance to see just what he can and cannot do. It's way to soon to think of platooning him. In fact, I don't see him as ever being a guy who would be platooned. Of course, that does not preclude having him hit left handed, exclusively.

While we're making out possible lineups, for next year, I'd like to pencil in Yolmer at 3RD base, vs. RHP pitching. You know that I've always loved him, and he is making a believer out of the skeptics. He doesn't hit much, right handed, but from the other side of the plate, he's good enough to start, given his great defense. This year, in 338 AB's, he is hitting .269 with an OBP of .327 and a Slugging % of .412. I think that we're all a little surprised at how strong his arm is, but he has made some very impressive throws from third. Let Davidson play 3RD vs. LHP and DH vs. RHP. Delmonico should get a shot in LF, especially vs RHP. They need a LH power bat, as I'm always wont to point out.

Our Ken Berry, didn't sing and dance, but he won a couple of Gold Gloves and even made the 1967 All Star team, despite batting just .241 and collecting only 25 XBH, the entire season.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 08:14 PM) Is Engel potentially as good a hitter as Ken Berry? Yes, he is probably as good of a hitter as Ken Berry was, but with more power and speed. Berry was a career .255 hitter, with an OBP of .308. However, his first 500 at bats were about like Engel's, so far. Berry was a great defensive centerfielder, but he was not as fast, so he had less range than Adam does. He was not quite as athletic as Engel, either. Although Berry brought back his share of balls headed for the bullpen, in old Comiskey Park, I'm not sure that he could have made some of those leaping and diving plays that Adam has made. The question is; can a Gold Glove caliber centerfielder, with below average offensive skills, still play on a contending team, in today's game of baseball? Perhaps not, but I could live with it. There are 8 other guys in the lineup. Let them produce the runs, while your Gold Glover saves them.

Back to the topic of this thread; In a previous post, I whimsically dreamed of what a terrific player he'd be, if he could hit even .250, with an OBP of .330, or better and hit 20 - 25 homers. After watching all of the Youtube videos of some of his catches, from his college days to the present, I'm willing to lower my expectations for his offense. Even if he hit .230 with an OBP of .300 and 15 homers, it would be worth it to keep him in CF. Add in a few doubles and stolen bases and he would be productive enough to bat 9TH, while playing Gold Glove defense. I've always embraced the old baseball adage, which calls for strength up the middle. Give me great defense behind the plate, at the keystone combo and centerfield, with great pitching. Let the offense come from the corners. This team is going to have productive offense from 2ND, with Moncada and maybe from SS, if Anderson can get back on track. The Sox might even have productive offense from their receivers, if Collins pans out. Why not give Engel a chance to round out his game a little, at least until Robert is ready?

Well, if Engel doesn't make the team, perhaps "Da Bears" could use him:

Yes, but "ReyLo" translates to "King Lo". How do you like that?

OK, so putting aside the "grade," can we agree that Engel has tremendous speed, better than Hanson and perhaps best on the Sox?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:44 PM) I don't recall FS ever giving him an 80 grade. Link? No, it was MLB Pipeline that graded his speed 80. Future Sox does not normally publish grades, but again, here is what they say: "Engel has true plus-plus speed".

Here you go, Gentlemen: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/242451240/al...g-speed-to-sox/

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) I read the quote and then put holes into it. Adam Engel is NOT as fast as Billy Hamilton. No way. I don't think he is even the fasted guy on his own team. That belongs to either Hansen or Moncada. That makes three guys who are clearly above Engel, which makes it impossible for me to call him an 80. So, am I to assume that MLB Pipeline and FutureSox are not reasonably accurate sources for such grades? What would be a better source, without having to pay for a subscription?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:32 PM) Sure. But if you can point out multiple players who are faster, you can't call him an 80... just by definition. Let me put it this way, Billy Hamilton is an 80 speed. Do you see Adam Engel as that fast? I have not seen a single report that puts him into that category. Yoan Moncada and Alen Hansen are probably 70-75's. Would you put Engel in those categories? I wouldn't. To me that means he can be rated the same as any of those guys. Perhaps you didn't read the entire quote. MLB Pipeline rated his speed as 80, last year. Who am I to argue with MLB Pipeline? They currently rate Moncada's speed a 65, which I admit seems a little low.

Here is what MLB had to say about him, last year, in their Pipeline assessments, which rated his speed as 80: Engel was one of the best athletes and biggest enigmas in the 2013 Draft, which is why he lasted 19 rounds and signed for $100,000. He batted just .265 with two homers in three years at Louisville and provided inconsistent production in his first three pro seasons. He led the Class A Advanced Carolina League with 90 runs and 65 steals last year, but also topped the circuit with 132 strikeouts and posted just a .704 OPS at age 23. But Engel made adjustments in the second half and flourished in the Arizona Fall League, winning MVP honors while pacing the prospect showcase in batting (.403), on-base percentage (.536) and slugging (.642). Though AFL statistics must be taken with a grain of salt, his right-handed swing was much smoother and his rhythm and timing were much improved. He seemed to recognize pitches better and was able to stay back on balls and drive them more consistently. Engel never has lacked for strength or bat speed, and if he can become even an average hitter with average power he can make a huge impact at the big league level. His top-of-the-line speed makes him a disruptive force on the bases and a defensive asset in center field, where he shows fine instincts. Even if his AFL performance was a mirage, his tools should allow him to contribute as a fourth outfielder.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) I would put say that Moncada and Hansen are probably faster. I think Engel probably rates more of a 65 or 70 after seeing him in action. Oh yes, I forgot about Hanson. He is very fast. Aren't you impressed with Engel's speed, running to first? He looks awfully fast to me.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 02:56 PM) Looking at his D numbers now, they have all gone positive except for a small negative to his arm. If you drop down to his Inside Edge numbers, you can see where his range comes into play. He has made 100% of plays in the routine range (90-100% prob) 100% in the likely range (60-90%), 80% in the even range (40-60%), and 33% in the unlikely (10-40%) and even 6.3% of the remote plays (1-10% chance). He is either above or at the top end of each of those ranges. That means he is likely getting good reads and routes, because Engel is not a guy with 80 speed to make up for bad reads and routes. Obviously we are still in SSS range, but the early numbers are very positive. Interesting stats. Thanks. Regarding his speed, who on the Sox has more speed than Engel? I would guess that perhaps Anderson and Moncada possess Engel's speed, but I doubt that they are faster.

Since I'n the one who started this thread, please allow me to clarify my intent. Adam Engel is not a "one tool" player, and he is intriguing because he has elite defensive skills and tools, for an important defensive position. Of course, it's the "if" that is problematic, and I agree that you could say that about any player; "if Davidson were an elite defender, with great speed, a great batting eye, terrific contact skills and a great baseball acumen, to go along with his considerable power, wouldn't he be something?". However, it is not necessary to stretch the imagination, in order to see Engel's realistic potential. He is really only lacking in one critical skill; he does not make consistent contact. We don't know what the cause is. Is he swinging at bad pitches, is it his approach, or bad mechanics? He has power and elite speed and athleticism, do go along with his stellar defense, but obviously he has got to figure out how to become a productive, or at least acceptable hitter. There is a reason that he was a pretty highly ranked prospect in our system, and why management is still trying to provide him with opportunities to develop, even at the MLB level. Apparently, those of us who are intrigued, are not alone. Look, hitting at the Major League level is incredibly difficult and is more of a learned skill, than a natural athletic gift. We are seeing plenty of guys initially look clueless, but later learn to be good hitters. You can't teach speed, athleticism or power, but you can teach hitting. It's a skill and you don't need to be big, or strong to do it well. Look at Altuve. That little guy is leading the League and his Slugging % is amazing, for a guy of such small stature. I'd just like to see Engel develop the ability to barrel up the ball. He would be a real stud. Again, I'll simply quote Future Sox, in their assessment: "Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from."

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 07:04 PM) Yeah, Engel is a negative WAR player, at -0.4 fWAR in 71 games. Leury is at a +1.1 fWAR in 87 games. Leury was pretty good before the injury, and not as much thereafter. He's also got much more positional versatility than pretty much anyone else in the roster, and is a switch hitter. On balance, if it were a choice between Engel and Leury, I'd probably go with Leury, given that Engel simply can't hit enough to be a starter. I'm also not convinced that Engel is an overall better player than Tilson, but for Tilson being made of glass. I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season. I agree that, at this point, Leury is a better player, and will always have more versatility. That is not the debate here. I'm just intrigued by the elite defense, that Adam provides at a key defensive position, and the potential as a hitter, given his power and speed. That is a rare combination. But again. we all agree that he has to hit, which he hasn't yet been able to do.

He has power. His issues are contact, and pitch selection.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 06:45 PM) You can't play a guy with an OPS of 530 in any sort of role, not even off the bench. Sorry. Adam Engel is absolutely useless hitting that poorly. Let him go back to AAA next year and earn another chance but trotting him out in a competitive year? Ha, don't make me laugh. I think we all agree that his current skill level level with the bat is not acceptable. That is the point. We are contemplating how to get him to a respectable level, as a hitter, to go along with his elite defense and speed. So, you believe that he has just as good of a chance to do so, back in the Minors? Whether, or not, next year is a competitive year is a big question. I think it depends upon how fast the pitchers will be ready, as I have stated elsewhere. It's doubtful that Kopech and Hansen will be big contributors, that soon.

Leury was always regarded as a plus middle infielder, but the outfield is really new to him.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 06:00 PM) I don't think Leury is a poor defensive CF, although Engel is obviously better. Regarding his arm, I was unaware of that write-up, but every metric and the eye test have shown that his arm is nothing special. We'll see if it improves I agree that Leury is not a poor defender, but I doubt that he is any better than average.

Leury has done very well, but he does not have Engel's upside and he is not really a good defensive centerfielder. Regarding Engel's arm. My understanding is that his arm is highly regarded. Here is what Future Sox had to say: "Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from." I just think that if he could hit .250 with an OBP of .330 plus and hit 20 - 25 homers, he would be a terrific player, the way he plays centerfield.