Lillian

I just read what "Beautox" suggested, in the thread on "Todd and Melky". If his facts are all correct, his suggestion makes sense to me and it would constitute a realistic way to acquire the kinds of prospects, for which we're all hoping. It's an intriguing scenario, involving salary cap relief to the Red Sox.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) Kahnle's return isn't optimistic at all if anything its slightly below what the market has previously dictated for relievers of his caliber; Groome had a lat issue earlier this season in addition to make up concerns and is currently ranked at 87th and Chavis is experiencing a break out of his own and ranked 96th. As it stands right now it just depends if Hahn wants to roll the dice again with a reliever, he has seen similar situations play out before with Crain and Jones but if he does I expect next deadline provided Kahnle produces to bring back two prospects in the 60-100 range and a lotto ticket. Frazier himself should bring back Ockimey & Mata as it stands so that return for both is light. If Robertson is moved to the Yankees I doubt they go after Andujar or that the yankees move him; Mateo makes too much sense for a number of reasons for both clubs; he is behind their top prospects at every position, and even further down the line if he his moved to the OF, currently taking up space on the 40 man and that is going to be a crunch going forward and he is experiencing a resurgence in AA so it makes sense to sell high after his mediocre stint at A+ this year. For the sox he gives them an interesting option if in the next 2 years Anderson can't get it together at the major league level. Abreu as the second piece makes sense as well because of his distance to the show and he is going to eat up another 40 man spot this offseason. for the rest of the season the projection systems are expecting Frazier to produce another .9-1.2WAR and if you go by fangraphs values for prospect ratings he should be worth a 45FV hitter or 45-50FV pitcher. Kahnle is currently 27 is projected between .3-.5WAR for the rest of the season, if you project him to produce 4.5WAR(1.5 per) over his next three years before he is a FA his value not including his salary is roughly 44.6M including the remainder of this year and it doesn't factor in a potential comp pick as the next cba isn't till '21. Take all that into account and I feel some on this board are severely underrating his value. Thank you for the information on Groome. I was not aware of his negatives. I also agree with you about Mateo being a better target than Andujar. Mateo is the guy, for whom I've been hoping.

21 of Boston's top 30 prospects are pitchers. There are probably some decent arms that Hahn could pry away from them, for a package of Frazier and Kahnle, but not Groome. If I'm wrong, I'd be thrilled, however I just don't see it.

Speculation that the White Sox could be getting Groome and Chavis from Boston, for Frazier and Kahnle is a pipe dream. As you all know, the young southpaw is Boston's #2 prospect, according to MLB Pipeline, and #34 overall. Hahn has proven to be an able negotiator, but I think that is just not realistic.

Ok, I'll concede that Rose probably shouldn't be in the equation, but remember that Moncada can also play there. Of course, these guys won't all work out, but I'd hope they could spread the talent around the field, a little better than that.

Regarding the speculated trades of Groome and Chavis for Frazier and Kahnle, plus Andujar from N.Y., for Robertson: I don't know if someone has mentioned that, in addition to the overly optimistic nature of this return, it seems unlikely that our Sox would be seeking both Chavis and Andujar in these trades. That would add 2 more third basemen to our number one pick in last years draft. You could even add Matt Rose to the list, as he is considered a plus defender, at 3RD, with a power bat. Isn't that a little "overkill" at the hot corner?

Asche's line, in 107 at bats, vs RHP, going into today's game: .411 .492 .710 1,202 1 for 1 today, as a pinch hitter.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 05:39 AM) Here are your problems: 1) You're assuming that all of Avi, Davidson, Leury, & Sanchez will maintain starter-quality players. That remains to be seen and very unlikely IMO. 2) Starting Yolmer Sanchez over Yoan Moncada is crazy to me. Moncada can be a special player, Sanchez can not. Not much to debate there. 3) Young pitching will go through growing pains. You can't assume guys like Lopez & Giolito will come up and immediately be productive starters. 4) Not dealing Quintana & Kahnle (assuming value is there) is poor asset management. They can bring in high-end talent that better fits our projected competitive window. 6) The system has gotten better but still need's an influx of talent, especially on the positional side. It's the reason we're rebuilding in the first place and you don't suddenly jump ship because of a weak division and a few early hits. The goal is a deep system that will consistently provide waves of talent. 7) You are obsesssed with left-handed, middle of the order power bats. I don't think I've seen a post of yours without mentioning adding one According to some of Hostetler's and Hahn's comments, the front office shares my "obsession". The reason that it has been such a focus of mine is that the Sox have had such a long drought, when it comes to filling that need. Of course, I agree that Moncada is going to be a better hitter than Sanchez. However, as I previously posted, I don't think that he is ready. Part of my motive for suggesting this entire scenario is to avoid rushing some of the prospects. It takes most young players a while to figure out Major League pitching. Perhaps this is more true today, than ever before, given the variety and quality of the pitching that they face, in the Big Leagues. I'm not in favor of bringing up guys too fast, only to face the inevitable dilemma of having to sign them to big free agent contracts, right after they have finally figured out. Matt and Avi may be just two such examples of players taking a while to "figure it out". Fortunately, Davidson wasn't brought too soon and therefore still has plenty of time before he becomes a free agent. In Avi's case, the Sox wasted a couple of years of service time. On the other hand, it's possible that some hitters might not ever figure it out, unless they see enough Major League pitching. It is indeed a real dilemma. It would be nice if they could be exposed to such pitching, without being in the Majors, and burning through their service time.

Some of you may think that Moncada should be part of next year's lineup, but I'd prefer that they hold him back, until he forces the issue. It would be nice to have him come with the rest of that young core, and delay his service time, toward free agency. He really needs to get the strike outs down, and improve his defense. I still think that he would be better suited in the outfield, where he could utilize his speed and arm.

The unanticipated emergence of offensive production from Avi, Davidson, Leury and Sanchez means that the Sox may not have to completely tear it down, in order to rebuild. Although probably no one expects Avi to win a batting title, for which he is currently in the lead, he does appear to be a legitimate offensive weapon. Davidson's 17 homers, in just 196 at bats, represent a home run, every 11.5 at bats, which puts him in the very top echelon of sluggers. If he is for real, the Sox could be just one left handed bat short of a very formidable middle of the order. Leury and Sanchez now appear to both be at least adequate offensive contributors, while filling two important defensive positions. It should be noted that all 4 of them are still young enough to be part of the core, going forward. It's great that they have the next wave of players coming, which should afford them an opportunity to realize the stated goal of "sustained success". When Moncada, Robert, Collins, Burger and some of the other very promising youngsters are ready, they could have a terrific core, going forward, however that probably won't happen until 2020. In the meantime, there may be a way to compete as early as next year, providing they don't trade Quintana, a move for which there now appears to be much less urgency. If they can fill that seemingly perennial need for a middle of the order left handed bat, and find at least 2 starters, out of that stacked pipeline, to fill out the rotation of Rodon and Quintana, couldn't they compete in the very winnable Central Division? Among the top prospects, who are the two most likely to be able to contribute to next year's starting rotation? Giolito, Kopech, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Fulmer and ??? What do think of the following moves?: 1) Trade Frazier, Melky and Robertson 2) Keep the young relievers and make either Jones or Kahnle the closer. 3) Sign a veteran free agent, left handed hitting, high OBP slugger to play either Left, First or DH. "Caulfield" suggested a first baseman, which could make sense. Starting lineup next year: CF Leury Garcia, or maybe Engel has figured it out. RF Avi Garcia 1B/DH Abreu 1B/DH LH Bat? 3B Davidson SS Anderson 2B Sanchez LF Delmonico C Navaerez/Smith

Anderson has taken a lot of pitches, out of the zone, in his last couple of at bats. That would obviously pay off for him, if he could learn to do it consistently.

Davidson is the type of hitter who would probably not succeed at being a bench player. He is the slugger type, who needs to get in a groove, as he seems to be, at the moment. He's young enough, and has several years of control. It would make more sense to keep developing him, including his defense, and let him hold down 3RD. No one is pushing him, and it will likely be at least 2020, before Burger is ready to challenge anyone for that spot.

Davidson has now hit one homer in every 12 at bats, almost all of them vs. RHP. Having watched Avi develop, it's hard not to be optimistic that Matt may be emerging as a regular part of this rebuild.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 04:52 PM) Lillian... Thanks for acknowledging my previous input. I already posted the following comment, in the "Day One Draft" thread, in response to "bmags," who also mentioned how pleased he thought I must be: I'm especially pleased at the underlying philosophy. You can imagine my reaction to this quote from Hostetler: "We needed power, especially left-handed power," said Hostetler, before preparing for Day 2 of the Draft. "When you look at the pieces [general manager] Rick [Hahn] brought in through trade and what we did last year in the Draft, the middle of the order bats were important for us." I'm obviously very happy with the picks.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 09:58 PM) Lillian will be happy. ABSOLUTELY!! I'm especially pleased at the underlying philosophy. You can imagine my reaction to this quote from Hostetler: "We needed power, especially left-handed power," said Hostetler, before preparing for Day 2 of the Draft. "When you look at the pieces [general manager] Rick [Hahn] brought in through trade and what we did last year in the Draft, the middle of the order bats were important for us."

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 11, 2017 -> 07:39 PM) http://www.hardballtimes.com/how-many-stri...ts-is-too-many/ Thanks "Caulfield," that's exactly what I wanted to see. It reaffirms my concerns over Kendall's extraordinarily high strike out rate.

Can any of you recall a collegiate player with a strike out rate comparable to Kendall's, who became an outstanding Major League hitter?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2017 -> 01:12 PM) Guys that make the majors and become serviceable players are not a dime a dozen. "A dime, a dozen" is just a figure of speech, of course. What I was attempting to say is that it doesn't require a lot of talent, or money, to acquire them. If you need a serviceable player, he is usually available. It's the big run producers that demand significant talent, in return, if a team attempts to trade for them, or acquire them through free agency.

"Does he have like a Cameron Maybin middle, ending up as a good fielder with huge Ks, but still a serviceable player?" Again, guys like that are "a dime, a dozen". Why waste a number 11 pick, on that?

QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Jun 9, 2017 -> 09:13 AM) Gross. Way too much swing and miss in his game. Don't want another toolsy athlete that will be great if we can teach him how to hit. I can just see him becoming another Mitchell or Hawkins. I agree with you, entirely. From an economic perspective; position players who can play good defense and have speed, can always be acquired relatively inexpensively. It is the middle of the order, good hitters whose contracts create a strain on the payroll. Kendall does not profile as that kind of player. My preference is for a potentially big run producer, ideally from the left side, regardless of the position they play. I know some of you are not high on Pavin Smith, but if he were still there, I can't imagine that the Sox would take Kendall over him.

I think that the next step in his development should be the ability to draw more walks. Being more selective, will also provide him with more opportunities to hit the kinds of pitches which he can drive for extra bases. He's still swinging at too many balls out of the zone, although he has nevertheless been able to maintain his average.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jun 5, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) Its amazing how many hitting experts there are out there. Amazing anyone could play baseball before Youtube. Yes, but do you agree with his analysis? I hope that Kendall has learned to point his front foot more toward the pitcher. Maintaining his foot angle toward the plate, while striding, is not only not conducive to generating power, but it looks like it would put a lot of stress on that leg.

I just watched this interesting analysis of Kendall's mechanics, by "Rebellion" and it's a little alarming: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/3/6/14...lb-draft-report It's the last video on the page and it may have already been posted here, but just in case it hasn't, it's worth watching.

Perhaps that thumb is still bothering him. I hope that's the reason. He was 0 for 5 today and drew the "hat trick". His S.O. are getting to be a little alarming.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 4, 2017 -> 03:47 PM) Meh, he's 1 WAR right now, which is fine, but his BABIP is high, his strikeout percentage is 20%. Good for him for batting .300 though. Moncada should be a higher ceiling than that. Is someone suggesting that Sanchez is the better player, either now, or in the future? The question is; if they were both good enough to play, where should they fit defensively? Sanchez is an outstanding defensive second baseman. Not only is Moncada not a very good defender, at that position, but several of us have made the obvious point that his tools are much better suited to centerfield. Having a great arm and speed are kind of wasted at second.