Capn12

Yeah, those were the intentions...but seemingly someone would have made sure Koch was healthy enough to actually do it.

Foulke is walking no matter who he is with in 2003.

and Joe Nossek...he should get up and walk around sometime.

Don't forget Jimenez...he is probably still getting blamed daily for something that goes wrong, although the guy was a blockhead.

Pitching Year Team G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 1999 TOR 56 0 0 5 31 0 0 63.2 55 26 24 5 30 57 3.39 1.34 .000 2000 TOR 68 0 9 3 33 0 0 78.2 78 28 23 6 18 60 2.63 1.22 .258 2001 TOR 69 0 2 5 36 0 0 69.1 69 39 37 7 33 55 4.80 1.47 .265 2002 OAK 84 0 11 4 44 0 0 93.2 73 38 34 7 46 93 3.27 1.27 .214 2003 CHA 43 0 5 5 11 0 0 41.1 43 27 25 9 18 33 5.44 1.48 .265 Career 320 0 27 22 155 0 0 346.2 318 158 143 34 145 298 3.71 1.34 .245 Anything stand out there to you all? almost 100 innings logged last year in Oakland, all of which I am sure Koch was trying to throw 100 mph every pitch. You think that has no long-term damage on an arm? Think again

Well f***, you can't really be the closer when the manager doesnt call your number in the 9th. Theres only so much that Koch himself can do....he can fess up and tell someone that he is hurt if he is, or he can just go out there when called upon, do what he can, and hope to get back into good graces..this is 2002 Foulkegate all over again. We may never know if the guy can overcome his problems or not.

Yes, advanced scouting and analysis shouldve been done on Koch's arm, based JUST on his usage in the past.

The Marte that is 5/12 in save opportunities? Face it, fact is that Koch can't throw 100 mph right now, no one knows why. We can speculate as to why, I personally think its the constant overuse in the past

Koch has blown 4 saves, the same exact number that Gordon has, in 6 less games. Koch is 11/15, Gordon is 5/9, and Marte is 5/12. Tell me how Koch based on stats is such a waste, when his numbers are better than the other 2 guys?

Because our other options stats areso much better Koch has blown the same amount of saves that Gordon has, in 6 less tries, without his out pitch. When Gordon starts to struggle, and he will, is everyone on here gonna be pissing and moaning about KW signing him as a FA? The scouting shoulda been dome on Kochs arm, it obviously wasnt, and yet its all Kochs fault that he has pitched a TON in the past.

I agree...that falls squarely on scouting, and KDub.....yet Koch is getting all the heat here

That makes 2 of us Indy...

Jesus f***ing Christ people.....you get rid of one scapegoat in Jimenez, and I guess you all have to find someone to lay all the problems on afterwards. Koch was WAY overused in hus MLB past. He isnt gonna admit it, what pitcher looking to get paid would? The trade on paper was in favor of us, we get a great lefty prospect pitcher, AND a Top-Notch closer when he is on. Little did any of us know that his velocity was way off from what it normally was. You can't just look past what the guy has done in his career. People b****ed when we had Roberto, b****ed and whined when we had Foulke, and now piss and moan about Koch. Let Coop figure it out, NO CLOSER IS GONNA BE PERFECT. Something is wrong with Koch, be it overuse in the past, or injujry...but when he is on, he is one of the best.

BULLs***....the man has been completely OVERWORKED in the past by Oakland and Toronto, then KW goes and gets him without thinking of the consequences. Koch will be fine, I'm glad I have at least ONE supporter (thanks Indy). Foulke wouldnt have been here next year, hated our management, how many times has it been said. Foulke was screwed 6 ways to Sunday by this organization, and he woulda wanted NO part in being here any longer than he had to. All these people crowing about how good Cotts is, well...you cant have him AND Foulke.

"Take our Colon, PLEASE!!"

Thats right...we win, KC loses...that matters most I agree. WE win despite CLee tonight.

I am...I am positive that Koch will be closing in August sometime. And I'm not saying thats a bad thing, hell I like the guy. I'm not trying to be grim, just honest. I'll have no problem with Koch in there as closer, cause hopefully Coop can figure out what the problem is, he's been outstanding with our other pitchers.

Again, no one is gonna take Koch in a trade, and like I mentioned, JR doesnt pay 5 mil for just another bullpen arm. Gordon will unfortunately blow one sometime soon, then everyone will be jumping off the Gordon bandwagon. His numbers themselves say he has blown 4 out of 9 opportunities. Koch has blown 4 out of 15. Tell me again how those numbers say Gordon is better? Right now, yes, he is throwing better. BUt it won't last all season. ANd then, Koch will step in.

Not a chance my friend...JR doesn't pay someone $5 mil to be a mop up pitcher...He'll be closing again by mid August.

Which backs up my point. I can't argue on the subject of umpires, but Bartolo Colon has good enough stuff to where he doesnt have to try and eat away at the corners, most of the guys in that Detroit lineup couldnt touch his high heat, so why not use it.

He's not pitching like Bartolo Colon...the colon i know goes after hitters, challenges them with heat that they cant catch up to. The Bartolo COlon I see this year is going after corners, throwing 90 mph, and that COlon is getting lit up.

It just doesnt appear that he is pitching like he wants to be here anyways. Is another year gonna change that? The guy just appears not to try.

CLee and Colon traded? I'll be the first one to celebrate that day. CLee is getting better, but if you all want to see some of these "great" guys we have in the minors, LF is where they are gonna have to play.

I'm not hating. I'm just pointing out that anyone who thinks that TG is gonna maintain his 5-7 pace over the past week is sorely mislead. I appreciate what he has done. But to bench, R Alomar, PK, Thomas, or Daubach.... just to play TG everyday..... is ludicrous. I wouldnt want him starting over any of those people, but over Crede and Valentin once a week for each, hell yeah. Those two are about as consistent as TG anyways...they are both hitting under 250. Whats the love affair with Crede and JosE6?

Date Opponent Score AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS Jul 19 DET W 6-2 1 1 1 0 0 1 3 0 0 0 0 .260 .341 .445 .787 Jul 17 DET L 9-10 4 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 .255 .337 .421 .758 Jul 13 @ CLE W 7-4 5 2 3 1 0 1 3 0 0 0 0 .248 .329 .418 .748 what do u want from him?