SoxHawk1980

A bad #5 starter can really hurt a team. It has hurt the Sox in the recent past. And these guys in the pool to be come #5 starter have very little major league experience and no major league success yet. Do you really think there is very little chance that the would combine to make up a bad #5 starter in 2007. It is anything but unlikely. And, it is not at all uncommon for SP's to go on the DL. If/when that happens in 2007, then two of those guys will be in the rotation for some period of time. Do you think that lack of depth could hurt the Sox? I'm sure that's how KW saw it. That doesn't help the Sox at all this season. And THAT is the problem. As a GM, not everything is about the coming season. If you don't think you're in contention, then by all means work on the team's future. Feel free to make the current team worse to build on the future in those situations. But when you've got a legit chance to go to the WS, maybe that isn't the right time to trade a legit #3 SP for prospects that won't help you this year.

Well, then I don't have any idea what this inside information is, if it has any credibility or value. So basically that info is nothing and is worthless to me and every other Sox fan. We gave up a guy who is likely to be a #3 starter for a guy who is likely to be a #2 starter. Both have the possibility to be better than that, or worse of course. And the "two arms" we got back for Brandon are prospects. Maybe Masset can upgrade the bullpen a little this year. Maybe. No one thinks Danks will help the Sox this year. Nor should they. This is a good move for the future and a horrible move for the present.

I'm excited about Danks future. I'm much less happy about the White Sox present. The White Sox present is more important than Danks future. I think that is the nature of the unhappiness around here. We have (had) a good shot at the WS in 2007. Now those chances aren't so good.

I'm excited to see winning and championships, regardless of whether it involves the development of our minor league prospects or not. And I think Gio is a long step away, if it is just a step. He's never succeeded at a level higher than A-ball. He is yet to master AA. I don't think he'll be major league ready to start 2008. Maybe mid-2008, but I doubt he'll show particularly good things at that point, given his age and experience. He might be two steps away. Certainly two years. Unless of course we rush him. I wish I had reason to be excited about Floyd. I'm only optimistic about him if there is something that can be fixed and that Coop manages to fix it. Floyd has never pitched well above the AA level. He's never been good in AAA or the majors. Yes, he has some major league experience -- more than just spot starts, as you said -- but he's been awful. So far he's been simply horrible in the majors. If he starts the year in the rotation, I'm going to feel horrible. I think he's going to need some time to work on things in the minors. Maybe he can get himself righted there. I don't want him wasting major league innings to figure things out. Prospects are good, but they don't help you win championships this year. So far KW has taken a WS contender and taken them a step or two backwards. We needed to get better to win the division in 2007 and KW has made us worse. If we finish 3rd again, the fun of seeing prospects develop will be little solace.

One unproven rookie who has never had major league success. We went from 6 legitimate, quality major league SP's in 2006 to 4 in 2007. So, we have a big hole in one rotation spot and no depth. What if a SP goes on the DL (not exactly a remote possibility)? Then our rotation and our team is in serious sh*t.

By the way, I think this elusive "inside information" about McCarthy which has been mentioned in this thread is dubious at best. It sounds like spin to me. Whispers about poor work ethic, attitude, etc. surround many, many players. They typically get thrown around a lot more after a trade. Whenever an organiztion trades away a popular player, we always hear a lot more about how he really was a bad seed. I call BS.

I'm sorry, but are you kidding????????? I agree with you about how you think BMac would have done for us in 2007, but I think it is completely ridiculous to say that ANY of the pitchers in line to replace BMac would have done that. Those are the numbers of an average #3 starter in the AL. It is crazy to think that any of those pitchers (the vast majority of which appear to be not at all major league ready) can pull off #3 starter numbers in their first major league season. One should expect #5 starter numbers, and one can hope that they aren't horrible #5 starter numbers. Any honest fan should expect a major downgrade in Garcia's rotation spot in 2007.

If it was true that the trade was because of issues between Ozzie and Brandon, KW chose poorly.

Why do you think this? I'm not being critical of your comment at all; I'm just curious as to how you draw this conclusion. All I know about Haeger is his minor league stats and what I saw of him in the majors (which was obviously limited). Is it just his minor league success that leads you to this conclusion? I want to believe he will be great, but a lot of players have a good AAA season and never do more. I'm just curious if you have more info.

I think the difference between McCarthy in 2007 vs. Haeger in 2007 is HUGE. Haeger is completely unproven in the majors. Haeger has had only the slightest taste of major league experience. We have NO IDEA if he can ever succeed in the majors. McCarthy is no ace, but he has had some major league success as a starting pitcher. There is real reason to believe he could continue to have at least a moderate level of success (see Garcia in 2006). Hager is a huge question mark. There is little reason to be comfortable with or confident in him...or Floyd....or Danks....or Gio. Our SP depth has gone for 6 in 2006 to 4 in 2007. Can you imagine how shaky this rotation will be if one of the SP's goes on the DL? *shudders*

I think it is pretty hard to defend KW so far this offseason. He has traded away major league talent for prospects when we are a potentially WS contending team. He has made the 2007 team worse so that the future can be brighter. (I know I am repeating this a lot, but it seems like some people simply refuse to believe this reality).

Yes, you have to restock your farm system from time to time. But you don't make your team worse in a good contending year so that you can load up on prospects. 2007 was going to be a potential WS contention year for the Sox. And KW's moves have made the 2007 team worse. Building for the future is good, but you do it at the right time. You do that when the team is not in contention or when you have such a surplus of talent that you can afford to make the trades.

I think he would likely have been as good as Garcia was in 2006. I don't think any of the pool of pitchers who are now going to compete for the 5th starter spot can come close to that in 2007. Kenny Williams: working hard to give you another championship in 2010

No, the Sox aren't writing off the 2007 season, but they have made moves which have the net impact of making the 2007 team worse than the 2006 team talent-wise. Clearly these moves are good for the future (if a significant number of these prospects pan out), but they have been done to the very clear detriment of the 2007 team.

Enough with your insults and ceaseless defenses of KW and Ozzie. It is just foolish. I hope you know that Ozzie has a great deal of influence with KW on personnel matters.

Almost a step back??? It is definitely and obviously a step back for 2007. I really didn't think KW would give up this much and hurt our 2007 penant chances this much.

This is true. I think he is basically a #3 starter. He certainly doesn't have ace potential, at least in my mind. But, as I've been saying for months, I thought he could step in do as well as Garcia did last year. Now, we don't have a pitcher ready to do that. For 2007, KW has effectively decreased the quality of the rotation, and thus the team. I haven't read anything else in the thread yet, but is anyone making the case that KW is still trying to make the 2007 team better? It looks to me like all of these moves are about the future to the detriment of the present. Danks may be a better prospect than McCarthy, but he certainly isn't as major league ready as McCarthy.

1) You don't get adjusted to MLB pitching by coming up to the majors and sitting on the bench and playing maybe one game a week. 2) When he hasn't yet done particularly well at the AAA level, it is hard for me to see that he is ready for the majors. 3) Therefore, Sweeney needs more time to figure things out and become a better baseball player at the AAA level and come to the majors only when he can come up and get significant playing time. Rushing Sweeney to the majors isn't going to be good for him or the Sox.

Definitely. Being a fan IS about rooting for your team to win. I root like hell for them to win, regardless of how good or bad they are. But there is a difference between rooting for the team to be great and convincing yourself that they are great, regardless of the facts. I hope the Sox will win 162 games and the WS, but I try to analyze the team realistically. One can root for one's team to win and be a realist at the same time. Rooting for your team does not require you to analyze the team unrealistically. For instance, I see Jon Garland as a pretty good #3 starter and no better. But I hope like hell he'll have an ace season like he did two years ago. But just because I hope he'll be great, I'm not going to pretend that he is. Athletes need to go into a game confident and thinking that they will win because that belief actually affects how they will play and therefore the outcome of the game. However, fan comments on these boards don't affect the outcome of the game. If it did, I would be happy to post rah-rah optimism 100 times a day.

I see. The nature of the vast majority of fans is that their expectations exceed what actually happens. Check out the prediction threads every year. I bet 85% or more of the win total predictions exceed what the team actually ended up winning. That's what fans do. They want their team to do well so much that they resolve most of the uncertainties in their head about their team in the positive direction. Anyone who isn't following the positive fan current is then labeled a pessimist.

It is actually much easier and more fulfilling to go through life as a realist. Realistic fans are the best fans. Any fan can have their hope for the best morph into expecting the best. Unfortunately, this is what most fans do.

False. Last year we won 90 games and managed 3rd place. Next year, the division is going to be just as good. Detroit will be down some, but Cleveland will be better. Minnesota will be good again. If the team doesn't improve its talent level over the 2006 team (and it hasn't), one should not expect different results.

I know he sucks, but at least he'd be expensive. There is no reason to waste money on Erstad. If you want a defensive replacement OFer who can't hit his weight, you can find that for the minimum in a NRI.

Sweeney is an excellent prospect, but he isn't ready for the majors yet. His 2006 performance in AAA and the majors showed that. We shouldn't slow his development by bringing him up to the majors so that he can sit on the bench as a backup OFer. The fact that he is a little better defensively than Terrero doesn't justify hampering his development.

No doubt. I'd love to have Rios, but we can't handle losing another SP. We have no one who is dependable to step in and make 25 starts. Would you do Garland for Rios straight up? I wouldn't. It might be a fair talent-for-talent deal, but I don't think the Sox can afford to give up another SP. It would fill one big hole and open another.