SoxHawk1980

Figgins is a Podsednik with clearly better stats. Better in basically every stat, and a much better base stealer. And 2007 is a year when the Sox should contend for the playoffs. You don't make trades to make your team worse in the short-term when you're trying to contend. And yes, those prospects are pitchers, and that does have value. But do you know what the failure rate is for pitching prospects?

We could have at least gotten Figgins + an ok prospect for Garcia. Figgins + an ok prospect >> Gio + Floyd. Plus the Figgins deal would have helped us this year, whereas the Floyd deal doesn't help us at all this year.

Yeah, I guess BMac has to take his licks sometime. And now he's going to take them in 2007. Therefore, since KW didn't acquire anything that helps the team in 2007, and since BMac is going to be "taking his licks" this year, this trade didn't improve the team in 2007.

Very well said.

Actually I think that he very clearly pointed out that his top four concerns on this team are the LF, CF, SS, back-up catcher. I think middle relief is a relevant #5 concern.

Ok, I'll explain it. I think McCarthy will have a similar year to the one Garcia had in 2006. About a 4.50 ERA and other similar stats. I think McCarthy will end up being better than that, but pitchers usually don't "arrive" in their first full season in the majors. So, he'll have a decent season, like Garcia did, but not great. That would make for fine depth. That's a hell of a #6 starter. Now if a starter goes down, you basically have to go with a big question mark. Is any other pitcher ready to 5 innings and give up 2 or 3 runs in a start? Certainly no one I have confidence in. Just a lot of wishful thinking. I know what I've read about them and seen of them. I also know that they are just prospects. Most prospects never pan out. Gio is far from major league ready and no one knows if he ever will be. Such is the nature of prospects who have only gotten as high as the AA level (and not done very well there). He's a big question mark. Floyd was a top prospect whose star has fallen each of the last 3 years. He has talent and hasn't been able to ever put it together in the majors. He's a big question mark. So you've got a solid #3 major leauge SP who is dependable at that level and two big question marks. Clearly there is more major league talent, particularly this year in the former. How many long ones do you think McCarthy will give up? Don't you see that a couple decent pitcher prospects helps this team immeasurably????

Common sense. I love how everyone hated the trade when it was announced, and then 12 hours later, many have convinced themselves that it was a good deal, or at least the best possible deal KW could have gotten. This trade fits into KW's and JR's new philosophy to get younger and cheaper. Rebuild immediately. I think he liked this trade offer because it involved cheap prospects that help for the future, but not for the upcoming season -- not because it was the trade offer that involved the most talent. Nice. I'm just saying we don't know if Haeger is major league ready. On the other hand, the available evidence shows that Floyd definitely isn't ready.

After 2004, Garland had had 3 1/2 full seasons in the majors and looked like about a 4.50 ERA pitcher, a decent, reliable #3 starter.

Not solely. BMac was going to be in the rotation regardless. One of the starting 5 was going to be traded. So the quality of the trade is determined by how much you get for that traded SP. We got about as little as we could possibly get. KW could and should have gotten more.

Haegar is major league ready? He certainly didn't look like it in his one major league start. We have no idea if he's major league ready. I have no faith in him. Broadway? I don't think he is anywhere close to major league ready. He may be great one day, but 2007 is way too soon for him. Floyd? How much major league suckage does this guy have to show to illustrate that he is not major league ready? The depth that we used to have was BMac.

I could list the various rumors, but I won't. Suffice to say that numerous reports and just plain common sense when viewing that worse pitchers were garnering much more money tells you that Garcia was very valuable. And yes, it was for one season, but for a contending team, a full season of a good SP for relatively cheap money is worth a lot.

1. Less talent on the team (and organization now). 2. BMac in his first full season in the majors won't do better than Garcia would have done (about the same, I think). 3. When a SP gets injured (and this happens to basically every team, every year), we'll have no major league ready replacement to fill in, because we've lost our SP depth.

I would have traded Garcia for some player or players who would have helped the team now. A pitcher of Garcia's quality who is as inexpensive as he is in 2007 is worth a hell of a lot in this market. KW could and should have moved Garcia for more than prospects. He could have easily gotten an OF upgrade and a decent prospect.

Freddy was going to be traded and BMac into the rotation regardless. It is just a question of what you get for him. In this market, of course he could have gotten more than two good but not great prospects. Yeah, he is a decent prospect with some upside and downside. Same with Gio, who is an even more distant prospect. Is the team better than yesterday? Yes. Does this trade help us in the future, yes it does. Sounds like a plan to me. You are drunk on the kook-aid. You worked really hard to spin this horrible trade into something positive. We're worse than before the trade. And these prospects are certainly not sure things for the future. It is similar to the difference between supporting your team and fawning over every move the organization makes, regardless of how good or bad they are.

He certainly looks like he's building for the future more than for the present. The Garcia deal sure as hell doesn't make us better in 2007. It makes us worse.

Of course KW wants to win. That doesn't mean that every trade he makes is actually a good one. Sometimes bad trades are made. It happens. The Garcia trade was one. The rumored Garland trade would have been one too. Neither of those trades would have made us better in 2007. Maybe 2008. More likely 2009. It is too soon to give up on this team and rebuild.

And others will reject any criticism of this organization. No matter how bad of a trade KW makes, some fans will work really hard to spin it into a positive. I know this one took a hell of a lot of work.

Yes, he's well aware that we need 5 starters, and at the same time he's clearly willing to trade off more than one of our starting rotation. He was negotiating to trade away Garland AFTER already trading away Garcia. I think you'd be surprised if he traded away another starter for prospects. Don't be. The trade made us better this year? Please stop drinking the kool-aid. It has gone to your head. Neither Floyd nor Gio are as good as Garcia. Not close. We don't know if they ever will be. Prospects are prospects. Many prospects don't pan out. And these guys aren't exactly blue chip prospects. Floyd's star has been falling for years. Gio is yet to succeed at any level higher than A-ball. They may do well, but they may not. This trade certainly doesn't definitely help us for the next 5 years. We'll see what if anything they do with that $10M. I'll give them credit if they use it well. We'll see. But clearly, for now, this trade was definitely awful.

You actually think this was a good trade??? He traded a quality SP for two decent prospects. Gio had a poor year in his first year in AA in 2006. He's nowhere near major league ready (think 2 or 3 years for his debut and then probably a year or two before he hits his stride, if ever). Floyd was a top prospect 3 YEARS AGO. And his value has dropped steadily since then. These guys aren't even blue chip prospects. Like all prospects, they are just maybes and not even great maybes at that. This would be a decent trade for a rebuilding team who had essentially given up on 2007 already. I don't think KW should have given up on 2007.

You are confident that more SP trades aren't happening? The Sox were at least working on a deal to trade Garland for prospects. Do you think KW is done shopping SP's? I don't.

I love it when a major league GM works hard to make the AAA team better. If the Sox were a crappy team, then rebuilding by trading veterans for prospects would make sense. This team is one year from winning the WS and won 90 games last year. This team was ready to contend again and was likely to make it back to the playoffs. And he's having a fire sale which makes us worse in 2007 and set to contend in 2009...maybe.

No, I believe what Kenny Williams says. I'm looking at Kenny's direct and indirect quotes in that article. Rogers is an idiot, but he's not a liar. He doesn't fabricate quotes. Kenny has made his intention clear. And basically he's going to work hard to keep the Sox in about 3rd or 4th place in the AL Central. I'm looking forward to Soxfest this year.

So the Sox win the WS, come back and win 90 games and then apparently KW wants to scrap the team and rebuild? That has to be the most stupid idea I've ever heard and we're seeing it play out right before our very eyes. We'll be very lucky if the Astros save us from ourselves and nix the Garland for prospects trade.

Of course this trade stinks to high heaven. It was quite clearly a salary dump. When you trade a valuable starting pitcher in THIS market who is making about 10M for two prospects who will get league minimum, it is all about dumping salary. People are hoping that Kenny will spin these prospects into some better deal. But the problem is that Floyd and Gio aren't worth as much in any trade as Garcia is. KW took his best trading chip and turned it into something worth much less. If the Sox spend this savings on something worth more than Garcia, then I'll be happy. I don't think that will happen.

Few deserve to get into the HOF as a broadcaster less than Hawk. Do you guys just want him in the HOF because he's a Sox broadcaster? Does that mean you want all Sox players throughout history to be in the HOF too? Hawk is a bad broadcaster, period. Nothing like turning an institution with a proud tradition into a joke.