Dick Allen

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 04:00 PM) I found this on rotoworld: He could very well be part of any trade. This is the guy I was reading the article about. The NCAA uses baseballs with different seams than MLB and guys generally have nastier sliders in college than the pro's because of it. I guess there is also a little difference in the minor league ball and the major league one.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) Kenny Lofton is also in his 40's and that catching prospect the Rangers got back is a pretty good one... I see you forgot to mention that. The trade is for 2 months. Kenny Lofton being 40 really doesn't play much into it. He's playing well this season, Dye has not been. You can call the catcher a good one, but he's been a pro for 5 years and he's with this 3rd organization and he's in A ball. He was converted to a catcher from an infielder, so he probably wasn't too much of a infield prospect. I did mention that.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 03:03 PM) That very well may happen if we do not get the player(s) we are looking for. I don't think the $3.5 million is that huge of a factor in whether to trade or keep Jermaine, not so much as the draft picks are. I doubt you will see Dye dealt for nothing as you saw Iguchi. I would think that any money saved this year could theoretically be added to next season's budget. $3.5 million for Dye+$1 million for Iguchi= $4.5 million, almost $1 million more than the entire bullpen makes. What will be interesting to see is how this failed season damages the season ticket base and how that affects the payroll.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) then why not let dye stay here and pad his stats for free agency? it helps him and it will help us if he walks because we'll get a nice draft pick or two (i assume). I really doubt KW gives him away, although he could save some money dealing him for garbage. It would be bad PR though. I kind of doubt they would have given Iguchi away if Richar was hitting .249 in Charlotte, but KW is absolutely correct in wanting to see what he can do now instead of waiting for a September call-up. If he bombs, they could always attempt to re-sign Iguchi, but I think they are going to go for someone a little more athletic.

There was an article in one of the LA newpapers yesterday that said it Texiera or bust. Konerko wasn't available, at least at a price the Angels were willing to pay.

Kenny Lofton is hitting .303 this year with over 20 steals. He netted Texas a A ball catcher originally signed in 2002, now with his 3rd organization. This dissappointment on this board is going to be immense if you really think Dye is going to net a top prospect for 2 months of his services, $7million or $8 million contract and .230 batting average.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 10:37 AM) I agree with DA....Dye is going to be a stud the rest of the year. I think he's finally relaxing and not trying to hit 5 homers every game. Combined with him looking much healthier, I hope KW is able to get a Linebrink-esque package for him. But please, please don't trade him to the Cubs. If KW traded him to the Cubs and he helped the Cubs win, how would that sit with White Sox fans? It would really chap my ass. Unless the Cubs offer a package far and away the best available, he should stay away from dealing with them.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 10:24 AM) I completely agree with you about the draft picks. But the opinion varies depending on who you talk to, so they're definitely worth mentioning and I guarantee KW will use that fact as leverage in any trade discussions. I highly doubt there's any way Dye accepts arbitration. Why would he accept around ~$10 million for limited playing time (which would hurt his future value) when in free agency he will get more than double that guaranteed. He would know Boston would either trade him or open up a full-time spot for him. If his numbers aren't so great at the end of the season, the offers he gets may be a little lower than he's expecting. There's always a possibility he decides not to sell himself low on a multi-year contract thinking he could get back to his 2006 numbers or at least a lot closer to them, which would make him a lot more money. Keep in mind, he already has sold himself low once. He may want to try another way. Its a tough situation. The White Sox really don't have anyone else in their system they want to see out in RF for the rest of the season, ala Richar at 2nd, they seem to want Sweeney to spend more time in AAA, so they really have no reason to trade him if the offer isn't at least as decent as the draft picks, which to me aren't all that great. Another team isn't going to want trade a great package for a guy they will have for 2 months who is currently hitting .230. I think Dye's numbers will be good the rest of the season, but like everyone else, I'm wrong a lot of the time. Linebrink gets compared with the package offered. I don't know much about the prospects Milwaukee gave up, but they don't appear to be that appealing. Also Dye gets paid a little more.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 09:56 AM) Mediocre 2nd basemen free-agents-to-be who don't offer compensatory picks don't bring back much. It is not a position of great value and the market for them is poor. Pitching and position players with power are another story. Just look at Linebrink, who's numbers are far from 'huge'. Away from Petco his ERA was almost 6. This year his HRs and BBs were up, Ks down. All the Padres got for him was a 20 yr old AA starting pitcher with a career 2.28 ERA and 11 Ks/9, a 26 yr old relief pitcher with career 1.76 ERA and 11.6 Ks/9 with 1.00 WHIP, and LH starting pitcher with modest but not bad stats. That is a nice little group of prospects right there for a guy who is s*** outside of the biggest park in baseball. For any team that adds Dye, they are getting a guy with huge power potential who has been absolutely tearing it up since coming off injury. Not to mention draft picks after offering him arb. I fully expect a package of talent much closer to what the Pads got for Linebrink (centered around a B+/B spect) rather than Iguchi brought back. Iguchi brought nothing, just an opportunity for Richar, which is the smart thing to do. Dye will bring a little more, but not the kind of prospects people on here were talking about earlier. The draft picks are a total crapshoot. Depending on who eventually signs him, they can be expensive and not necessarily that high, and especially in the case of Boston, there is a risk JD accepts arbitration. If he doesn't particularly like the offers he gets he accepts the arb. from the Red Sox and suddenly they have a $10 million a year part timer, which they probably would trade, but really what would that net back? A "B" prospect seems about right, and I wouldn't be surprised if the White Sox pick up some of the remaining portion of the contract.

Watching Dye last night, he looked real healthy. He was definitely running better than he has all season. I think he may be over his quad injury and the cortisone injections seem to be working. As we have seen with Iguchi, free agents to be without huge numbers don't bring back much. If Dye does go somewhere, the team that gets him is going to be very happy IMO. I think he's going to put up good numbers the rest of the season.

Freddy is pissed that Dubee has left the Phillies organization.

Iguchi came through in one of the biggest at bats in franchise history. His homer after the ball went through Tony G's legs was very underrated. The White Sox most likely would have lost that game if not for that, and who knows what would have happened. Here's to you Gooch.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) I'm not saying they wouldn't have signed Dotel, I'm saying that trading away guys who are signed for $2 million a year is barely saving money. Its saving $2 million and since they both suck and aren't contributing, if fact TL being in the minors actually is a postive because he didn't hurt the major league team which cannot be said about MM, the "win" if trades must be judged by that would go to KC. I personally would have made that trade, and I would have made the Sisco trade as well, but as of right now, advantage KC.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 02:33 PM) With MacDougal? The Sox signed him to a 3 year, $6.45 million deal. Octavio Dotel's contract with the Royals is worth $5 mil for this season. They did not save money by trading MMac: MMac is still in the "ungodly cheap" phase of his career. How do you know if they still had MacDougal they still wouldn't have signed Dotel? He may be ungodly cheap, but he is the most expensive piece of KW's bullpen. I bet you KW would rather have TL right now.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:52 PM) The fact that Moore paid Gil Freaking Meche $55 million speaks volumes about the level of pitching talent in their farm system. Kind of like giving a 50 year old Contreras $30 million and Vazquez $33 million 2 years before you lose control of him. The White Sox system is just as weak. Look at the guys they have brought up this year.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Tyler Lumsden has put up a 6.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Omaha Royals (AAA). Batters are hitting .302 against him. It's really hard for me to find a logical reason why one could say that the Royals have won that trade. They have saved some cash. Kind of like how the Sox won the trade with Philly even if Floyd is garbage and Gio never sees Chicago. Some people here defend KW by his "winning" trades. I don't care about winning trades. Winning games is more important.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Tyler Lumsden has put up a 6.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Omaha Royals (AAA). Batters are hitting .302 against him. It's really hard for me to find a logical reason why one could say that the Royals have won that trade. They have saved some cash. Kind of like how the Sox won the trade with Philly even if Floyd is garbage and Gio never sees Chicago.

I didn't see a thread on this, but Roland is back with the D-Backs. I don't know exactly what he did with the White Sox, if anything really, and know he does live in AZ, so I was wondering if he took the job because of that, or maybe there was something else going on. I imagine he knows Schaffer pretty well and wonder if he became dissillusioned by his termination.

Why don't they just bring the whole team back? They seem to be pretty good. KW should be allowed to bring Pods back, provided that he's willing to resign the first time Pods gets hurt. How many times does a guy have to get hurt before you realize that is something that most likely will continue?

QUOTE(max power @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) I dunno about cotts, but the other two I agree with a great degree of certainty. Either KW or Ozzie or both hated McCarthy and Garcia had to go because of $, and an expiring contract. I'm sure the velocity drop concerned him as well

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) Jon Garland, 2000: 15 games, 69.2 IP, 6.46 ERA, 4-8 record, 1.75 WHIP. Greg Maddux was pretty awful in 1987 when he was 21, and I don't think anyone would compare Floyd's career to his. Floyd is a power pitcher, Garland is not. Garland was 20 when he put up the above numbers. Floyd is 24 and getting worse. When he came up when he was 21 he did alright. His first game he gave up 1 run in 7 innings. His given up 92 runs his last 90 innings. Even the 2007 version of Jose Contreras hasn't been that bad.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) Damaso Marte was here for what, 1 year before Ozzie hit town? 2 pretty dominating seasons. He struggled when Ozzie came it, but if we base it on this year's numbers with the Sox bullpen, he still was pretty good.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) I don't want to cast myself as a Williams defender...but I guess I'll do it. That farm system ranking turned out to be largely illusory, didn't it? Who panned out from the system that existed in 2000? Crede, Wells, Buehrle, and Garland had graduated to the bigs in 2000 - 2001 hadn't they? Borchard and all the high profile 1999 and 2000 pitchers basically flamed out. In retrospect, it's safe to say it wasn't the best system in baseball. And the major league staff shredded their arms in 2000. I don't think he came into as cushy a situation you paint it. Williams work at the major league level improved significantly. I think he built decent clubs from 2003 through 2006. He rarely made any bad acquisitions in those years. The farm system was definitely overrated. The ironic thing was with Kenny's previous job, that false ranking probably helped him get his current position. He has such a reputation for being this maverick. It seems after the Thome trade, he's really gone conservative. I think one problem is he may be a little too attached to some of the guys that contributed to a WS. He did deal Rowand, but that was Jim Thome he was getting back.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 09:04 PM) That's an excellent comparison. We've all heard how "mentally fragile" Gavin Floyd can be on the mound. Ozzie needs to get into that head of his to turn that thought process around because he certainly has the arm to succeed. Its funny we didn't hear how mentally fragile Damaso Marte was until Ozzie hit town. I will go to my grave thinking Ozzie gets way too much credit for Garland's turnaround. Garland was basically the same pitcher even a little worse his first year with Ozzie. And he's averaged a little less than 1 more inning per start since Ozzie took over. He cut his walk rate down. If Ozzie is the reason for that, what's the deal with the current bullpen. I think managers and coaches get way too much blame and credit. Just think, if Ozzie bailed at the end of last season, and a new guy was brought it, and the White Sox had the same record as they do now, we would be constantly told how that was proof positive how great and important Ozzie was, that the disaster that this current team is would never occur under Ozzie's watch.

Didn't Contreras win his first 9 or so decisions after signing the extension? Every extension signed is a gamble. His is/was because of his age. Who is to say he won't make a semi comeback next year? El Duque looked done and he's been competent. Obviously he is awful right now, and really hasn't been the same since the back issue last year. I would trade him, but not if you have to pick up a nice chunk of his contract. Maybe shut him down early this season and try to prepare him for 2008. The problem with the extension was the Sox were at a disadvantage because Contreras was the stud the second half of 2005 and in the playoffs. He was as good as anybody and the Sox really had little leverage. Sometimes it is good to play things out.