Dick Allen

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 12:18 PM) Yeah those trades he made, with major pieces of the team, in 2003 and 2004 really bit us in the ass. But I can see why you wouldn't have any faith...KW has no history of winning. He's won once. Its not like he has a history of winning. 1 time in 7 years in a 5 team division is below average. Considering he has had the most resources to work with in several of those seasons and considering how poor Detroit and KC and for several years Cleveland were in the division, it makes his history even worse. His "I'm used to winning" line several weeks ago was laughable. 2005 was great, but he was very fortunate a lot of things went his way, even with guys who turned him away. It doesn't take anything away from it, but its not like KW is head and shoulders smarter about baseball than any other GM in the game. His arrogance since 2005 is obvious. He has all the answers, yet with a payroll over $100 million, all the best talent, the greatest coaches, the best owner, the best manager, his team finished 3rd last year and is in 4th this year in a 5 team race. I think its time KW get off his high horse.

Paulie is heating up.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 02:09 PM) Strained left rib muscle for Barbaro. Once again, thanks KW! Which charity is getting more money this year White Sox charities or Pods? I'm sure he's a nice guy, but how can you count on him to stay healthy? Of course, KW knows better than anyone.

I still have a hard time believing the NTC was something that suddenly popped up at the end of the negotiation. I really think its something that is being used to make both sides look good. Buerhle looks good because he's willing to accept a big discount in exchange for it, and the White Sox look good, because when Buerhle goes away, the issue isn't money. I personally think the White Sox and Buerhle's agent played Joe Cowley and whoever is the Score's informant like a fiddle and nothing serious went on this past week. I think it all was spin preparing for Buerhle's departure. QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:39 AM) So, keep them on your team by giving them everything they want. No trade clauses have interesting ways of handcuffing what can and can't be done to a team. Things change, its best to stay flexible. As for Garland, it guarantees squat. Garland was practically guaranteed to not sign an extension, Garland was practically guaranteed to be traded etc. if you believe the media reports. Which is a lot of what this situation is, media reports. I posted on another thread to wait and see what happens in this situation before jumping to conclusions and I still believe that is good advice. It hasn't been an issue for years, it won't be an issue for the next draft. Another reason to stay flexible, the budget may need more $$ for the draft. You are worrying about nothing with this. Now if they start drafting Boras clients then I am worried right along with you. Screw sandwich picks. They cost a lot, and with the White Sox recent history, chances are they will be very mediocre selections.

I just don't know why anyone would want KW just to take the draft picks for Dye or Buerhle. Their bonuses would have an effect on the White Sox payroll, and with the way the Sox have drafted, chances are they won't be very good players. Pick up guys who have had bonuses already paid and have had at least a little success in professional baseball. BTW, anyone else sick of seeing Josh Fields strikeout?

What is all this talk about ridding themselves of Buerhle if something happens to him? If he blew out his shoulder or elbow or whatever, no team is going to want to pick up the contract NTC or no NTC. Its apparent the White Sox at the very least don't want pitchers with full NTC, so Buerhle's White Sox days as well as Garland's are numbered anyway. Frankly, I think these "negotiations" were all hatched for PR. I'm sorry, but why would you go through the entire song and dance of negotiating years and numbers and get caught up in a NTC? Wouldn't that be a starting point? Considering you have to accept a "hometown discount" isn't it fair to assume you need something in the contract saying you will be in said "hometown"?

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) You know what, KW and co. all had the right idea, but it was horrible, pitiful execution. All of the negotiations should have been under closed doors, and there shouldn't have been this much info released. Its the "we really tried" technique that you knew was coming. They even went as far as saying the money was right, so the Sox wouldn't have come off as lowballing.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) So if KW and JR give in and give Mark what he wants, what if Mark blows out his shoulder in September and his performance diminishes afterwards? They would have a very difficult time recouping even a tiny fraction of their $55-60 million investment. I'm not saying that Mark's NTC demand is unreasonable, but you need to take off your fan glasses and look at this through the ownership's perspective. How have high-tier veteran pitchers performed after signing big four- and five-year contracts recently? What happened the last time that the Sox give a veteran pitcher one of those big four-year deals? What would've happened if JR had allowed Schueler to give Blackjack, Fernandez, and Alvarez deals like that back in the mid-90's. From what they've seen around the league recently and experienced personally, their chances of getting their money's worth from the deal that Mark supposedly wants is very low. FWIW, this is Buerhle's 8th season. After 2009, he becomes a 5 and 10 man if he remains with the White Sox, so he would have an automatic no trade at that time. What this tells me, if the report that the NTC was the hang-up is true is the White Sox aren't going to let themselves be stuck with pitchers who have these rights. So Buerhle and Garland cannot be on KW's infamous "3 year board", because then they would have full veto rights in any trade. So if your Buerhle, you aren't going to sign for a "hometown discount" because its obvious they will trade you halfway through the contract to avoid having an automatic no trade. BTW, the last time the Sox gave a pitcher a 4 year deal, although techically a 3 year extension was Vazquez.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 06:18 AM) You cannot. This entire debacle, in my mind, reveals a smart part of what KW wanted to do with Buehrle. Number one being that he wanted to sign him to a reasonable deal and then just flip him one year later because he would be under control for three more years, thus shooting his trade value through the roof. Second, he's jacking up Buehrle's trade value by showing teams he'll sign for 4/$56 with a NTC. You'd figure just about every single team that isn't as cheap as us would have no problem doing that, especially Boston. I agree. I bet he would give Buerhle a NTC for a year, like the others, then he becomes a 5 and 10 guy. So it really is showing teams who you refuse to give a negotiating window to a signal that he would sign. After 2009 Buerhle becomes a 5 and 10 guy, so a NTC wouldn't be needed with the White Sox, if the article or any written so far are true, the hang-up is a no trade for the 2009 season, as I would imagine the White Sox would give him the 1 year clause. Seems pretty ridiculous to me. Buerhle is willing to give up money and years and the White Sox don't want to give him a no trade, something they have no problem giving partially to Javy Vazquez. As White Sox fans, we should all be livid if this is the truth, and KW winds up trading him for garbage.

I really think people are overestimating what Dye would bring back in a trade right now. His average is .230. He's getting $7 million. He's only signed for 2 months, as of the trade deadline, and has had knee and quad problems this season. I'm starting to wonder if you could even get 1 B prospect for him.

The Score actually had guys on the air saying it was a done deal. Levine talked to Buerhle's agent who said nothing had changed. Buerhle told Farmer nothing was up. Maybe they are negotiating now, but as far as yesterday, as much as it pains me to write, Levine was spot on. The Score was off.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 08:55 PM) Jose says that, but in all honesty, he knows he wants to be on a non-suck team... I love you Jose, but you need to be traded ASAP and Gavin called up. oh great... looks like Gonzalez is gonna stay in the lineup for good now. I predict he finishes the year up at around .195. I agree with you about Gonzalez. He was hitting .180 until he saw some Tampa pitching. As far as a Contreras/Floyd switch, be careful what you wish for.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 09:21 PM) Hawk Harrelson ladies and gentlemen! As of last week, Javy had 4 wins blwon for him, tied for 2nd in the game of baseballx fans really underrate this guy and i don't understand why. People lump him in with Contreras as far as underachievers go and they are talking out of their butts when they do so Vazquez has a real sweet ERA the past 4 seasons too. He's a star.

Should be no surprise Contreras would wave his no trade. He waived one to come to the White Sox, saying the same thing. I may be the only one on this site that hopes the Sox keep him.

Josh Fields with a rare whiff. Will this game take less than 90 minutes?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 03:42 PM) No one has stated that he doesn't or shouldn't care about that money. We're stating that it is conceivable he may want to play in Chicago and have $50,000,000 rather than play in New York and have $70,000,000. Then that begs the question, why wouldn't he sign the extension last summer before the ridiculous contracts were passed out? It certainly wasn't for much less than what the Score is reporting.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) It's about relative amounts. To the poster, it makes a HUGE difference. To someone who already has tens of millions of dollars, it won't matter as much. I'd sure like to get 100k, but Bill Gates really wouldn't care about that much money. And you know an additional $10 million or $20 million doesn't mean anything to Buerhle how?

Maybe Hahn is going to Tampa to ask the Count face to face to waive his no trade.

QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 03:09 PM) Most of the stories I have heard is those said lottery winners that piss away their funds usually end up A) Robbing a Bank B) Killing themself C) all of the above. Also, how does anyone on this board rationalize the difference between $10-$20 million plus to a person? I hardly make close to that money though it would be nice but for someone that has made money like that (at least $30 million for the past couple years) they can understand it more. To me $10-$20 million is a TON of money, for someone like Mark who seems to be a very simple man $10-$20 million might not be that big for him with the opportunity to stay in Chicago. I am sure there are ALOT of other factors playing into Mark's decision, family, his house, child (and one on the way), his team mates and the farm system/club that had faith in him all these years. Money isnt everything to some people. If money weren't important, why did he turn down the security that the White Sox offered him last ASB?

Look for Offman to back off during the next update.

Look for Offman to back off during the next update.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) I can see him saying no deal is done....but if Hahn is on his way out than its likely they have already had some discussion and the rest will be finished up in person. You think Hahn would just fly out knowing the agent is out there??? My guess is they have talked, both sides are optimistic based on initial discussions and as a result the two sides agreed to meet in Tampa to get an official deal done. He says they haven't talked.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 03:03 PM) There is no guarantee that there is a $100M contract out there for him. What is his value if he has a 5+ ERA the rest of the year. Also I go back to trying to pick where you want to play. I do not have the luxury of deciding to forego a ton of money to live whereeverI want so I can not speak of this personally but could he maybe only want to play four more years and raise a family and kick back and play with his kids? $50M goes a long way when your lifestyle is hunting and playing with dogs as oppossed to opening recording studios and building atrocious houses. If Buerhle plays in Chicago his wife is a few hour drive away from home as oppossed to palying on the coast where air travel is involved. Kind of sounds worth the $5 to $10M he could be giving up if you ask me but I am sentimental at heart and hate change. I just threw 100 million out there to make a point. There is a lot better than 4/50 million.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:59 PM) That pretty much indicates that Levine's assumption is bogus. I'm not saying the score is right either, but if Hahn is in Tampa and Buehrle's agent is in Tampa there is a freaking reason (especially based upon Buehrle's quotes in the Sun Times article this morning). I think there is going to be some sort of special announcement around game time tonight (even if the game is in Tampa). Why? Buerhle's agent is saying he has no idea where the imminent signing reports are coming from. He hasn't spoken to the White Sox in a while. Sox By Mark Gonzales, 1:40 p.m. Jeff Berry, the agent for Mark Buehrle, said in a telephone interview Wednesday afternoon that he was surprised by a published report that stated the team had resumed negotiations with the White Sox's left-handed ace and that a deal could be finalized by the end of the week. "Nothing's going on," said Berry, who did acknowledge he was in the Tampa area. "Despite what's been [published]. "I'm not sure where those reports are coming from." Berry said he hasn't spoken recently to Sox general manager Kenny Williams and said his client's status remains the same since the end of spring training -- in which any negotiations won't resume until after the season, when Buehrle becomes a free agent. Five weeks are left before the July 31 non-waiver trading deadline

There probably isn't too much a difference to Buerhle if he makes $50 million or $100 million, but he would hate 20,30, 40, 50 years from now to find out there was. There's more than a couple of players who were apparently set for life, finding out otherwise. Also the union would be concerned about the effect it would have on similar pitcher's contract offers. It conceivable could lower the "market rate." You can be pissed off at the union all you want, but its probably been as successful as any in history. If he's considering signing this reported contract, you can be assured he's being pressured not to.