Dick Allen

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 06:44 PM) Yeah the struggling bullpen with quality arms like Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, Thornton, etc. you can certainly give Kenny a pass on. Nobody was claiming before the season that we had the worst pen in the AL. However, this outfield issue we have was utterly predictable,. Let's say that our outfield was healthy with Erstad, Pods, and Dye and they all played 150 games. We'd STILL have an average-below average OF especially for an AL team I disagree. He went cheap, and he went with a lot of question marks. MacDougal has a hard time staying healthy. Aaardsma was only good part of a season in meaningless games with the Cubs. Sisco's numbers with KC last year were worse than Cotts' numbers with the White Sox. Thornton was a bust until last season. Chances are he would fall back at least some. KW went with radar readings over past history and results, and it bit him on the ass. BP was criticized heavily here when they suggested the Sox may lose 90 games. They pointed out the bullpen would have problems with strikes. With a payroll in the top 5 or 6 in baseball its hard to imagine how they can have as many holes as they do. Erstad, Pods, Crede, and Thome getting injured shouldn't shock anyone. You had to expect Dye to step back a little off last years numbers.Maybe not as much as they have, but more like 2005. Granted, everything that can go wrong probably has, but there still is a lack of fire on that team IMO.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 06:44 PM) You're not getting anything more than two B level prospects right now for Dye. I also think him saying how close he is to going on the DL is a little payback for the Sox brass b****ing about him not demanding that he stays with the Sox. His leg was really bothering him when he rolled into that DP. Harold was talking to him for a second. I was absolutely shocked he remained in the game. I thought for sure we would see Andy Gonzalez again. There are too many poor major leaguers on the White Sox roster. More now then I can remember in a long time.

I just got back from the game and can tell you Dye is about a millimeter from having to go on the DL. Those looking for a big return on a trade for him are going to be dissapointed I believe. Nick Masset is just not very good. He needs to go to the minors and show he can get people out. I think we are not very far from seeing bags on heads at games. People were actually laughing at the Pride and Passion things they put on the pre game video.

It appears years and years of failure have finally caught up with Mr. Shaffer.

I'm picking Erstad. According to Hawk and DJ, his ducksnorts are planned and an artform. Besides he starts everyday and leads off for the White Sox when he's healthy. If Aramis was on the Sox, where would he play?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) I didn't say a thing about what their actual potential is or was. You made the point that McCarthy was criticized on this board for being poor as a reliever and I explained why to you. McCarthy being criticized had everything to do with the perception of him by Sox fans. Obviously many of us didn't have that perception of Masset or Sisco, and so they haven't been analyzed as McCarthy has. Additionally, most of us haven't been exposed to Masset and Sisco as much as McCarthy and so we tend to buy into what we are told about them rather than what it is we all saw with our own eyes with McCarthy. Your explaination was flawed with misinformation. Maybe you shouldn't believe everything KW tells you. KW was talking him up as a reliever. He dominated the Mexican League this past winter. If, well he's better as a starter is true for Masset and Sisco, and I have yet to hear that from someone in the White Sox organization, just from some comments on this board, it should be true that McCarthy would be better as a starter, if not for the sole reason, that he has been. We will see where this ends up. I still think people pulled the trigger on a KW steal with this Texas trade way too early. McCarthy is going to be a good pitcher. Danks probably will be one too, but his numbers this year are similar if not worse than McCarthy's last season when Brandon suddenly was a bust and will never be any good according to a few on this board.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) McCarthy was criticized because he was hailed as some sort of savior for the better part of three years. Sisco and Masset are guys new to the organization, with Sisco especially being a guy no one expected all that much from. That's simply not a good comparison. Masset clearly needs to go down and start in AAA, but because the rest of these pitchers have let us down, it's difficult to do that right now. However, if this goes on for another few weeks, there is probably a pretty good chance Masset gets sent down to work on starting and throwing more strikes. McCarthy got everyone excited in spring training of 2005 when he was for the most part lights out. He was good his first major league start against the Cubs but then was pummelled. He then came back and took over for an injured El Duque and was lights out. He then wasn't part of the postseason roster, and Vazquez was acquired and McCarthy relegated to a relief role. Hardly a savior for 3 years. And unlike Masset and Sisco he had shown he actually could be a decent starter in the minors and had success starting in the major leagues. Just because someone is new to an organization doesn't mean you shouldn't look at their past. McCarthy happens to be younger than them both, just to add to it. McCarthy was totally written off as awful when he failed as a reliever, but 2 guys older, with less success in the minor and major leagues, who can't throw strikes to save their lives, are thought of as potential starters on this board. Crazy. In fact, if Jon Danks had McCarthy's major league numbers in 2005 this season, there would be numerous threads about where his statue is going to be placed.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) Masset looks pretty good when he gets extended time, and not as a short reliever. Steve Stone was on the other day, saying how Massets future is as a starter and he should be a pretty good one. Didn't Stone also say Masset would be a devastating reliever this year? You can't start if you can't throw strikes. Its amazing the criticism McCarthy got on this board when he suddenly became a relief pitcher and wasn't successful, but Masset and Sisco get nothing but the benefit of the doubt saying they should be starters. Considering Massset is 32-45 with a 4.53 ERA in his minor league career, I don't know where anyone can come to the conclusion this guy is much of anything.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 02:06 PM) Who would you like to see get the first shot in the rotation? And you can put several guys in an order you like in case there are also injuries/somebody struggling/other trades. The list of guys I immediately think of is Masset, Broadway, Floyd, Russell, Egbert, and Gio. Here is my list: 1. Masset (I'm really curious what he would do as a starter) 2. Floyd (With his age, now or never point is nearing as he pitches better at AAA) 3. Egbert (His GO/AO and our ballpark seem like a perfect fit) After that, I don't think Gio is ready, Broadway is doing well at AAA but I don't trust his control enough with the 2 seamer yet, and Russell is struggling way too much at AA for me to think he's ready. IMO, KW would want Floyd in the rotation.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 01:42 PM) Ahh, how humorous it would be if KW were to get Chris Young back in a Buehrle deal... The great Chris Young could come to the rescue- he of the .281 OBP and .715 OPS. He'd fit in wonderfully with this club! How often have you seen him play? How can you base anything on stats? Practice what you preach. Young is going to be a very good player.

He was DFA'd by Billy Beane. I wonder if KW may go after him. He wanted him 4 or 5 years ago very badly.

Supposedly Minaya said he will not give up Milledge or Gomez in a Buerhle deal.

Owens got sent back to Charlotte. I hope I never see him in a batter's box in a White Sox uniform again.

The White Sox are 76-86 their last 162. Making a good run doesn't look too promising.

When is the playoff ticket money due?

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 04:11 PM) As long as I don't have to watch Owens bat anymore. Pinch running is fine, but keep him away from a bat. They should have let Garland hit, and DH'd for Owens

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) ... I can't wait to hear what he says about this one. Its going to be the highlight of the rest of the season. The games are pretty meaningless at this point. Ozzie's press conferences are going to be classic. I bet you they have a team official nearby to make sure he doesn't say something that would get him in too much trouble.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) Williams should wait until Podsednik and Erstad are playing together for several weeks before deciding to sell anything. It's only right. And a week after they return, when they get hurt again, he should still wait it out. This team is talented.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) 7th series in a row, 9th series in a row who gives a crap. This team stinx and i think we all know it! Wait until Pods gets back. The Knights never lose when he's in the line-up.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 03:58 PM) Uh, not it isn't. I've been advocating a trade of Jenks for quite awhile. So have I. Big heavy guys with screws in their elbows usually don't last long. His velocity is only going to head further south. He was great when we needed him in 2005, now pawn him off on somebody and get something useful back while you still can, and before you really have to pay him for what most likely will be declining performance.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) 1 out of a million?! So you're saying there's a chance......................yessssssssssssssssssssss.

Ozzie's postgame press conferences are only going to get more entertaining.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 03:29 PM) I think a fire sale might actually make this team better this year. I agree. They can't be any worse.

What I don't understand by waiting for this team, they waited all of the second half last year. They waited all of this season. Its only getting worse. Chances are there is nobody on the White Sox current roster that will be on the roster for their next WS appearance. They had their chances and they simply blew them.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) this team has played bad, but the Jenks "velocity" thing is just dumb. Its been dumb for years. Why? Its what the White Sox GM used to measure the greatness of his bullpen coming into the season.