Dick Allen

BA needs to be in CF. Freddy making an ass out of himself again.

Soft tossing Freddy is really looking good. He's even hit 90 a couple of times.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) Freddy does it again. Ortiz leads off next inning....it's nice not having anyone on when he comes up. I thought Youkalis was the big out there. If he walked him, that inning could have deteriorated quickly.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 01:06 PM) for some reason, I don't think it's Frank. Bill Melton 1971 Dick Allen 1972

Crede is starting to fan a little more.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 12:43 PM) Yes, our offense is very good. Imagine if our leadoff hitter could hit and/or steal bases still. I don't understand how so many could say he was so great last year, and so pathetic this. His obp is only .004 lower than last year. He is only 18 runs short of his entire season total from last year. He already has driven in more runs, and he has approximately half of the SB. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Pods is anything more than average, but I thought that last year as well.

I think the second time through the line-up is going to be the key for Freddy today.

Freddy had his 86 mph heater working in the first.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 12:31 PM) Have I mentionned yet how much I absolutely despise Fox Saturday Baseball? I'd rather listen to Lou than McCarver. I don't know what McCarver has ever added to a telecast. He states nothing but the obvious.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 12:26 PM) 1st base for our AAA Team?? I had never heard Rowand was in that trade. I heard that Young definitely was and Rogo is always a possibilty to be thrown in any deal.

I read somewhere this morning that the package KW and the Reds agreed on for Griffey last year before Cincinatti ownership vetoed it was Rogowski, Young and Rowand for Griffey. I guess that explains where he would have played.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 12:16 PM) *gets Chills* LOL @ the team pretending Javy is good. Vazquez is a little like Wood. His reputation is built on stuff, and limited success a few years ago. Disregard the fact that his ERA is above league average the past 2 1/2 years and he looks pretty good. Unfortunately, he gained his reputation pitching meaningless games for the Expos.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 09:06 AM) I am wondering if Mark Shapiro makes it to next season. This was supposed to be the year when the Indians took the next step, and they have massively regressed and are now sliding back into rebuilding mode. This past offseason Shapiro clearly dropped the ball in replacing his departed players. I wonder which players are considered untouchable and which players are on the list to be moved ASAP? If anyone takes a fall for their struggles, it will be Wedge. I hear is job is hanging by a string.

I shutter to think what may happen if Freddy serves the meatballs he's been serving to this team. Hopefully he'll have a good game today.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:43 AM) My problem with his "discipline" is that he looks at strike 3 WAY too often like you said. I think when he learned his "discipline" he left the lesson on "protect the plate on a 2 strike count" to go bang his wife. Do you blame him?

IMO, Buerhle is a better pitcher with AJP behind the plate. That said, AJP was behind the plate when the Cubs tatooed Buerhle for 11 runs last weekend. Last night, Buerhle did give up a couple of runs that were results of broken bats and bloops. I really doubt acquiring a guy to play once a week is very high on KW's priority list right now. I think they ride it out with Widger, maybe call up Stewart in September, and give Stewart every opportunity to be the back-up next year. AJP may be the MVP of the Sox right now. I think he may be the one player they could least afford to lose to injury.

Most teams back-up catchers are not too good. Widger isn't good, but for a back-up he's fine. I would hope the Sox wouldn't waste prospects on trading for a back-up. Stewart is going to be the guy next year. Maybe even in September.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 01:22 AM) Last year he got on base and caused havoc. This year he seems to be trying to hit the ball in the air. When he gets on first he either gets picked off, or does nothing. And it seems this year, he has forgotten how to catch fly balls. Not difficult fly balls, no run of the mill he gets under it fly balls. Hopefully they start playing Mr. Fields in LF for the rest of the year, and we can go with a Fields/someone else platoon instead of the great he is fast, cant get on base, cant steal routine we have now. His OBP last year was .351. So far this year its .347. So he's basically getting on at the same rate. He's driving in more runs, and scoring more. Offensively, he is a better player this year than last. There was a love affair with his mediocrity last year that is unexplained. His homer in the WS is the one thing that will make me give him slack. Defensively, he is just awful. I wonder how hard Ozzie laughed when Pods volunteered to move to CF.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 04:12 PM) I defenitely agree that he's not performing anywhere near on a level commensurate with his salary. I think that's why a lot of people are on him a lot more than they otherwise would be. You're right. If he were making $4 million-$5 million, and was expected to pitch like a #5 starter, there wouldn't be an issue with him. If the Sox still had Duque, and he posted the identical numbers, we would be very satisfied. Vazquez is a guy that leaves you always wanting more.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 03:53 PM) Vaz isin't doing very well lately at all but I think saying you're "done" with him is a little premature. Like some other posters said earlier on in this thread, everybody was down on Contreras early last season and now he's our most dominating starter. Give him at least a full season ( especially the playoffs ) with us and working with Coop before passing final judgement. I agree he's nowhere near "done". There are a lot of pitchers that can't hold his jock. He's just mediocre. He's pitching like a #5 starter. As long as he doesn't blow out his arm or elbow, he'll always be able to find a spot on a major league roster. Unless he really kicks it into gear, he's days making $12 million a year will be over with the expiration of his contract.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 03:32 PM) When Wright won 14 in 02 the sox were around the top in runs scored. They might not have been consistent, but they could bomb the s*** out of a pitcher. Anyone know what Wright's been up to since he's had the surgery? I think he had shoulder and elbow surgery. Wright that year had an ERA of 5.18 and pitched 196 innings. The team was nowhere near as good as it is now. Magglio had a huge season, but Frank only hit .252, CLee .264, Paulie hit 27 homers, Mark Johnson and Jeff Leifer each batted over 200 times. I was in NY on my birthday that year, and Wright shut down the Yankees. Leifer hit one halfway up the upper deck in RF off the Rocket. Sox win. As far as Vazquez goes, pitchers who get almost 8 runs of support per start are usually going to have good records. Personally, I don't think his 9-4 record is as impressive as other pitchers with similar wins and losses totals. I think he's had the lead in all but 1 start. I'm thankful he won't be pitching against the Yankees or Red Sox. I also think this "working with Coop" stuff has to stop. The guy is not a miracle worker. If KW thought it would take a year of "working with Coop" to get Vazquez to be consistently dominant, he wouldn't have made the deal. He would have spent the money and/or players on alternatives.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:18 AM) Everyone was all over Contreras, I was I will admit it. I watched him get absolutely bombed against Arizona for an 8 spot. He was in between, throwing his forkball more than his fastball. He looked like he was taking a step backwards. Then poof, he turned it on. Does it happen with Javy, maybe maybe not. He has the stuff. Its just a few pitches that get him in trouble. Its not like they are just bombing the crap out of Javy. I would like to see him attack the zone more, and use his slider more to right handers with 2 strikes. I think he is trying to throw his two seamer more than he should because of trying to keep the ball in the park. I think that takes away from his game. Lets see what Coop does with him. I think its small adjustments that need to happen to make Javy into a winner for us. The other scary thing is at least for the last two seasons, Vazquez pitched significantly worse after the AS break than before.

QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 12:05 AM) 9-4 is not a bad record. Just saying. Sox are playing great and our number five starter is 9-4. Look at it that way. Do you remember Danny Wright? How about Schoenweis? Josh Stewert? Who do you like as your NUMBER FIVE starter? There are a lot of pitchers that could go 9-4 with 133 runs of support in 17 starts.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 09:48 AM) I love how everyone on this board is a serious budget analyst. We apparently have wasted all of our money on Vaz and have nothing left to fullfill "other needs." Apparently you all are plugged into Jerry's budget for this year. As far as if the team would be better off with BMAC, Young and Viz. How can you say that for sure. The team looks pretty good to me right now. Javy has won 9 games. BMAC has never started for a full season in the majors, who knows if he would have won that many games. You dont know that for sure, f*** he could have been hurt by now, and we could not have another insurance policy and be trading young for Jeff Weaver. This team is good, the pitching is good, the hitting is good and we are winning. Cant anyone be happy? You don't have to be a budget analyst to come up with the FACT that if Vazquez wasn't here, the money being used to pay him would have been spent on somebody else. Its beaten into our heads that every dollar that comes in is spent, and there's no reason to think otherwise. KW was rolling the dice with Vazquez. There is no question about his talent. He reminds me of a right handed Floyd Bannister. A guy with a lot of talent who could get on a roll and be dominating maybe for an entire year, maybe for half of one, but when its all said and done,will wind up with a pretty mediocre career, and have scouts and executives scratching their heads wondering why he wasn't better.

QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 12:05 AM) 9-4 is not a bad record. Just saying. Sox are playing great and our number five starter is 9-4. Look at it that way. Do you remember Danny Wright? How about Schoenweis? Josh Stewert? Who do you like as your NUMBER FIVE starter? Danny Wright won 14 games in 2002 with a team not as good as this one. He made nowhere near $12 million a year. I believe Vazquez has had the lead in every game he's pitched except 1. Vazquez might be the White Sox #5 starter, but KW and Ozzie didn't send Chris Young to Arizona along with Vizcaino for Vazquez to pitch LIKE a #5 starter. People around here blast the Tigers, saying they haven't beat any good teams, but then they look at Vazquez and talk about his dominating games against the Royals. Vazquez has a nice record, but his performance has been very dissappointing. If KW thought he was getting a guy to throw 6 innings and have an ERA over 5.00, he would have held on to Duque, Vizcaino and Young. QUOTE(KeithFranklin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 07:06 AM) Ahh remember the good old days when the 5th starter meant an immediate loss 90% of the time. I for one couldnt care less about how much the 5th starter is paid. Filling the park, concessions and merchandising now that the Sox are World champs easily pays for it and the Sox front office know it. The problem with paying him all that money is that means that money isn't available for other needs. I wouldn't care what they paid him if he earned it. I think he's been mediocre, just like he has most of his career, but I do disagree with anyone who claims he's dogging it.