Dick Allen

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) I encourage you to read more Ditka books. The players absolutely loved him. He praised hard-working individuals to no end. Walter Payton used to call him up frequently and do his best "Mexican Whore" imitation. Ditka thought there was some chick out there who was obsessed with him and wanted to f*** his brains out, but he later found out that it was just Walter Payton. That's just one of the many examples to be found in great books such as "In Life, First You Kick Ass" and "Da Coach". Ditka had his fair share of players that loved him, he also had his fair share that couldn't stand him. His support of scab football hurt his credibility with a lot of guys.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:02 AM) I realize I'm risking the wrath of the entire board and Soxdom in general by not jumping on the Mariotti/Mornotti/whatever bashing-bandwagon, but there's a few things to be pointed out here, IMO. What Ozzie said this week was unbecoming of a manager of a World Series Champion ballclub. To use that kind of guttural language in front of the press, knowing it would be reported, was stupid. Don't get me wrong I LOVE OZZIE TO DEATH but sometimes he can be an idiot, and he's being one now. For all the Mariotti bashing (I read him every day), what's overlooked is that this man has been MORE than fair to the Sox over the past few seasons. The idea that he rips them and champions the Cubs is absurd. While he may call out Ozzie for something like the Tracey episode (or calling that guy in NY a "child molester") or even K.W. last August--wrongly, as it turned out--for not making a trade for a big bat, the man has been talking the Sox up all during 2005 and this year too. He was the guy last year who was telling Chicago to forget the has-been/never-were Cubs and check out the real baseball on the South Side. He was the guy calling KW a genius over the winter for his trades. He was the guy talking up the new Sox as genuinely exciting this year, because everybody knows that we have a chance to repeat. I don't know how much more of a cheerleader this guy's supposed to be, and be objective. What I personally like about Mariotti is that he is unafraid to challenge the sacred cows here in Chicago and rip into teams/ownership that deserve it. This year it's been the Cubs (and rightly so, yes?), but in the past it's been the Bears (any arguments there?), the Bulls (save for the last couple seasons) and probably the Hawks at some point. He was also blistering in his criticisms of the Sox prior to '05 and you know what? He should have been. Yes, he gets things wrong sometimes (famously predicting the Bulls would never win that last championship against Utah, I remember). Yes, his feud with Hawk is idiotic (on both ends). Yes he can be arrogant and a blowhard. But for my money I'd rather see a guy stirring the pot rather than lapsing into the passivity that apparently allows us to continue to suffer owners like the McCaskeys and Wirtz. I WANT a guy who's going to slice and dice the teams when they suck. So apparently this year Mariotti is on Ozzie's hit list because he's criticized Ozzie's behavior here and there. And you know what? That is positively CUBS-LIKE. Oh, you remember, don't you? In 2004 (after the historic 2003 choke) all of a sudden Steve Stone couldn't dare criticize Baker or the team--and when he did, he was either tackled in the press by the team/Baker (ahem) or personally threatened/confronted by players. And that proved to be nothing more than yet another distraction that made sure, among all the other things, that they failed in 2004 as well. As for the Hawk thing, I'm not sure that Mariotti was ever wrong about him. He IS a homer. He IS a mouthpiece for Reinsdorf. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy Hawk, but what's in dispute here? Granted, Mariotti's comments have gotten more personal than that, but on the other end, Hawk spent an entire game the other night reading viewer email about what an asshole Mariotti is. THIS is the kind of thing we need to spend time on as we attempt to repeat as World Champions? Pfft. I doubt it. And as much as I love Ozzie, we don't need to hear him gleefully referring to unliked columnists as "f******* ***gots." At least not publically. Remember his Magglio tirade? That was embarassing. Magglio probably wasn't all innocent in his ultimate departure, but he didn't deserve that. At least not with that kind of language. I'd like to see Mariotti and Ozzie meet and bury the hatchet. Mariotti should be able to write what he wants without worrying about threats from Ozzie. And if Ozzie doesn't like it, he should be able to pick up the phone and call Mariotti and tell him why he thinks he's full of s***. But this nonsense is just getting old. I know Sox fans hate Mariotti, but the man is certainly not the anti-Christ he's made out to be. We need to worry about more important things. Sorry for being a heretic, but that's just how I see it. If you think Mariotti has been fair to the Sox, you need to find the link to Eric Zorn's blog about his White Sox columns last season. That's only the tip of the iceberg. Mariotti is never held accountable for what he writes. If you remember when the Bears drafted McNown, he was clamouring for him. When the Bears released him, he questioned how the Bears could ever draft him in the first place. Ozzie needs to choose his words a little more carefully. Swearing is fine, don't offend groups of people. Ozzie apologized for his word choice, but I am glad he's not backing down from Mariotti otherwise.

His son got hit in the ass. He should be pissed off at Ponson. Maybe he didn't try to hit any White Sox batter, but even LaRussa said it looked bad, and Ponson even said he didn't blame the Sox for being pissed.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 10:39 AM) Uh, he called out his own paper for being TOO biased FOR the White Sox. Yea, I didn't get that. Marriotti seemed to be pissed off his paper pulled a negative White Sox column during a World Series, first one in Chicago in 46 years, that the White Sox swept. What could he have been moaning about then? Considering all the garbage he writes that they do print, this must have really been ridiculous and petty.

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 09:16 AM) And how will he lose large groups? A SOX pitcher one day will have a bad outing, 2 innings, 9 runs and Ozzie will comment "he pitched like horse **** today". The media will run a ton of articles saying Ozzie must hate horses and horse lovers too, since they like horses, and they will call on him and the SOX organization to apologize to the Association of Horse Lovers. This stupid cycle will repeat itself and the media will continue to call it fact. Hes being called a national embarrassment? give me a break. No. Whether we like it or not, his name for Mariotti, who even said he gets called worse everyday, offends a lot of people. I've used the same word several times in my life, as I would suspect almost everyone on the board has. I don't remember if I've ever used it in anger, but I really don't see where that makes much of a difference. Ozzie did the right thing by apologizing for using that word, but not backing down on his disdain for that idiot. I'm not saying its going to happen, but what would happen if Slezak wrote a negative Ozzie column and he called her the c-word? He will and should be able to respond to and critique his critics all he wants. He just needs to pick his words more carefully. There's a reason people don't speak their minds to the press anymore. Anything you say can and will be spun to be used against you. Marriotti was saying he now is what he never desired to be, the news. If he doesn't desire to be the news, why does he continue to show his face on ESPN, why does he agree to discuss this story on the Score, why does the Tribune have quotes from him?

There's a difference. Ditka became focused on a lot of off the field things like endorsements, and he eventually lost his players. He's still beloved by the majority of Bears fans. Ozzie probably will never lose his players. If the comments continue he will eventually alienate large groups of fans. IMO the only way Ozzie will ever get fired is for saying something stupid and giving the White Sox no other choice. Hopefully, it won't come to that. I do see him walking away when the team eventually gets into a rebuilding mode, but who knows how long that will be.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 08:23 PM) Fun fact. When the Sox got to 9 runs in the second inning they had scored an incredible 29 runs over the last 7 innings pitched by Cardinals pitching. Cardinal fans were just shellshocked in the stands. They seem as a whole to be pretty cool. There was a loudmouth in the section next to me who was very loud when Taguchi went deep in the first. He was reminded that the Cardinals scored in the first last night, and then the Sox come to bat and the first 4 batters score. Unbelievable.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 09:40 PM) When did Ozzie Guillen start talking like a Russian? Did you see the quote when Ozzie heard that Pittsburgh writer called him a creep? He thought he meant gang banger like he was a member of the Crips. QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 10:13 PM) How many homers are we on pace for as a team? About 240 right now. It has to slow down a little bit.

Even before he crashed into the wall, was Edmonds hurt? He really looks old in CF these days.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 08:54 PM) That's really not why at all. That would be like reason number 10 of why they would drop the appeal. The guy has been playing against righties of late (though they have hit a streak of all lefties) and for his career he is much better against righties. Funny how the 5 game suspension will begin to be served 5 games before we go to NL parks. I'm absolutely positive you are correct in your thoughts that the Sox don't want to be short in NL parks, and that's the reason is appeal was dropped.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 03:46 PM) And who do you want to manage the sox. You want sleepy back. So he can sleep through another home run by Crede being called a foul ball. I'm not saying that. I'm just telling you if this continues and Ozzie keeps calling people politically incorrect names and just saying whatever he wants, eventually the White Sox aren't going to be able to protect him, and their hands are going to be tied as to what they can do about it.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 03:45 PM) It would be better if Jay would just get fired and go away. All this publicity has pushed that day even farther back. It will be interesting to see how Marriotti tries to keep the momentum of all of this going. He's going to be baiting Ozzie even more now.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 03:41 PM) Hahahaha. Ozzie brought us a WS championship, he is on his way to another dominant season. He can stay forever if he keeps winning. Winning doesn't last forever. Offending people left and right and using lame excuses will eventually lead you into very hot water. I really think if this was anybody but Marriotti we are talking about now, it would be even a bigger deal, not grounds for dismissal, but it seems to me Ozzie keeps pushing the envelope farther and farther.

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) The media sickens me the way they look for any reason to talk negative about the White Sox. What a stupid Article, Stupid Choices and stupid reasoning for writing this piece. Hes not in "hot water" as the article implies, but all this does in a very Tribune-esque way, is plant the seed of doubt now. ESPN = IDIOTS Marriotti is all over ESPN, what better than to make him the victim and have people watch the shows that he is on.

I think Ozzie should use this as a wake-up call. If he continues down this path, his managing career will eventually have a very ugly ending.

If there is one person in the world who would not fire Ozzie for what he called Marriotti, its JR.

QUOTE(henry wiggins @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 03:12 PM) I would bet that sports writers, in the course of their daily job, hear a LOT of things from players, coaches and managers that are kind of ... icky. Epithets, names called. Not so much in hate, as in the jock-speak of the locker room, where crudity is the standard order. Worse than the trading floors where I work, even. So, why aren't sports writers telling us EVERY SINGLE TIME a player, coach or manager uses a vulgar or derogatory term? I want to know! I want only Eagle Scouts to play pro sports, and I want EVERYONE who isn't clean in thought, word and deed OUT OF THE GAME! Oh, and in the Series last year, the Astros manager called Joe Crede a 5-letter word that is a slang term for female genitalia -- this after Crede barked at a pitcher who hit him. Garner was impugning Crede's masculinity. Well, as a woman, I am hugely offended by that and I want Garner and the Astros to apologize to me and to all women! (Do I have to green this post?) The difference is Ozzie did this specifically into a microphone. You're right, you will hear a lot worse than what Ozzie said in a clubhouse or during the course of a game, or if you hear an argument with an umpire. I was sitting in the first row of the upper deck back in the mid 80s when Roger Clemens was pitching against the White Sox. Someone hit a slow roller to first and Clemens ran over to cover the bag, the guy was clearly out but the umpire called him safe. Clemens lost his mind. From the first row of the upper deck I clearly could hear him tell the umpire that his mother was a whore, with a few f-bombs added in. Don Baylor and Jim Rice both huge guys grabbed him and carried him off the field.

Whatever the term means in Venezuela doesn't apply here. You can smoke dope and eat mushrooms and pay for hookers in Amsterdam. If your caught with that stuff here you can't use it for an excuse. Ozzie was dead wrong. Marriotti is an ass. This is exactly what he wanted. Now Jay, the guy who could never throw a ball or hit one, or make a basket or shoot a puck is now a sports story. If it gets anyone connected to the White Sox in hot water, even better as far as he's concerned. The White Sox should make it a team policy not to comment on anything Marriotti says or writes. His columns and comments speak for themselves. They show he knows nothing about sports.

I wonder what the White Sox think of the flagship station giving Marriotti airtime to bash some more, and try to get people to feel sorry for him.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 10:53 AM) THis is basically his attitude: "They dont like me, so I am going to take them down with my pen" yea, and he calls OZZIE immature. Ozzie is immature, as is Marriotti. There's a long line of athletes that don't like Marriotti. Every franchise in this town hates him. I really doubt there any athletes or executives of professional teams in this town that even remotely like him.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 10:48 AM) "It's not fair to me when their broadcaster sits in the booth and rips on me." You have been ripping on them for YEARS! They can just stay there and not retaliate after YEARS of abuse. True. Its not fair of Marriotti to write the lies he's written about the White Sox organization for years. Does anyone remember one of the Tribune's blogs last October which summarized Marriotti's negative White Sox columns? It was hysterical and showed what a worthless writer and observer he his.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) Basically, it's wrong to do what Ozzie did. I dont go into the clubhouse because of a long standing fued with former players. I have no interst in going in here. I am a coolumnist and not a beat writer. I can say what I want. He also said the way Ozzie acted is symptomatic of the whole organization. They have a beef with me and don't like me. That's the problem with this whole thing. Marriotti gets to play the victim when he's been angling for this for years.

QUOTE(lukeman89 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 10:26 AM) will ozzie be disciplined for this? Its possible he would be fined IMO. Ozzie is a very immature man. I think its safe to say that. His act flies because the White Sox are winning. If the Sox were playing like the other team in town, the act would have gotten old long ago. That said, and while I cringe everytime Ozzie defends his mistakes by talking about what he said or does means in Venezuela, he's not in Venezuela, things are different here, he took the bait by a guy trying to get a reaction just like this. Marriotti won, and will continue to pull strings to get these types of reactions. If calling Marriotti a "***" gets people in an uproar, how come that song with Sting and the guy from Dire Straits, using the words "little f*****" didn't produce protests? I would imagine at least 95% of the guys on this board have called people ***s in their life, knowing damn well the object of their name calling was straight. I can see where calling Marriotti a *** is an insult to ***s everywhere. Ozzie shouldn't pop off, but he did. There's really nothing that can be done about it now.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 09:54 AM) That's the kind of thing I was talking about. The Tigers are playing great, but against sub-par competition. The Sox have taken the Indians, Tigers, Rangers, Reds and now game 1 of the Cards series and stayed right with them, and the only way the Tigers gained ground was on an off-day. I mean, the Brewers are improved, but they aren't the Cardinals...and the Sox dropped a 20-spot on them. At least up until a couple of weeks ago, the White Sox played a weaker schedule than Detroit. I find this talk that the White Sox continuing to win is bothering Detroit, pretty funny. They continue to win as well. There were several on here that said the Tigers would fade in June and wouldn't be .500. They would have to lose the next 8 for that to happen. Dye, Konerko, Thome, Crede, and AJP are performing much higher offensively than what could be expected. I doubt they will continue with their torrid pace. Detroit is a good team and they're most likely for real. There haven't been many frauds that got to 24 over .500. Let's not talk about the Cardinals without Puhjols as one of the better teams in baseball. The Cubs kicked them all over the place. These are both good teams, and it probably will come down to who can remain healthier, and what kind of adjustments are made before the trade deadline.

I've always thought of LaRussa as a punk. I never liked him and was glad when Hawk canned him in 1986. He didn't, however, order any hit batters last night. In fact, he was pissed about it. You could tell from the post game show that he thought it was intentional. Ponson told him it wasn't, so he was standing behind that, but his stance was a little wobbly. I think his quote was, "It looked like crap."