Dick Allen

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:05 AM) Something tells me that the only 1 of the Marlins who had to actually "Pass" his physical in that deal was Beckett. I think Lowell and Mota were basically Salary dumps, and Boston was willing to take them to get Beckett. The story was Boston didn't do any physical exams on any of the players it acquired.

QUOTE(UC76 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 08:43 PM) I drove past the Cell today on the Dan Ryan for the first time since the green seats have been put in place. They look most excellent. It also looks like more "stuff" has been painted black (Rolling Stones pun intended) on the outfield area. All I know is that it looks friggin' sweet. I think they should paint the facades of the club level and upper deck green, and get rid of those ridiculous pinwheels they have lining the facade of the club level. They look like mints.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 08:16 AM) The thing is, he made so many comments at the wedding that clearly indicated that he knew he was done and that it was going to be HIS CHOICE was to walk away with the ring. I haven't seen him since mid November.. but at that time he was still in a ton of pain while walking without the boot... The injury isn't healed. And I think he'll crash and burn. I'm sad to say it, but that''s my prediction. I assumed everyone in the world knew Frank was done with the White Sox when the Thome trade was made and Konerko was re-signed. Apparently everyone in the world knew except Frank. Considering all JR has done for Frank, and he could have blown him off after the diminished skills clause was invoked, it was a cheap shot to lash out at him yesterday as well.

What's he complaining about when KW told him he wouldn't activate him at the end of the season? Doesn't he realize that was 4 months ago and he isn't healed yet? Doesn't he realize the White Sox won it all? Part of me really wanted to feel sorry for him that his career, at least with the White Sox, wasn't going to end how he wanted it to. But after all the comments he made, I just think he's out of line, and making a fool out of himself. I am glad he's gone. The kicker is he should be happy he's not here anymore considering he doesn't think this current team has a chance. He also complains that KW left him a voice mail instead of talking to him. Remember when he wouldn't answer KW's calls a couple of years ago? It was the offseason, and that was his right, but KW obviously called him. Hey Frank, if a talk is what you want, answer your phone.

At least they finally figured out the reason they have sucked for so long.

If a miracle occurs and Frank is able to play most of the season and puts up big numbers, when do you think he'll start b****ing about his contract?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 12:27 AM) A lot of people think Thome isn't one of the best clubhouse guys in the majors, he is the best. Him and Ellis Burks have always been considered two of the best team players. Yeah, I know there's a lot of love for Frank on these boards recently, but his comments today really make me feel like telling Frank... :finger Thome has had a better year than Frank 4 out of the last 5 seasons. The only exception was last season, which wasn't stellar for either one of them. Thome has 18 less homers than Frank in 200 less games. Thome could actually go in and play first base if you needed him to. I don't see what Frank is thinking popping off about Thome. Frank better hope that his ankle holds up and Thome doesn't dominate, or he'll look like a sad fool.

KW was a jagoff when it came to Frank, but I must say he did treat him with class and respect at least publicly this year. Frank's comments are out of line, and to bring Thome into it is unfair. Frank has played 108 games the last 2 seasons combined. The White Sox medical staff obviously doesn't feel he's a good bet to play very much anymore, if he plays at all. Frank should be talking about the A's, not crying about the end with the White Sox.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:37 PM) Several points. e.) Once the season starts...teams may discover that they don't need as much pitching. The Orioles might trade a ton for a pitcher right now...but let's say once the season starts they discover that Mazzone is as good as advertised and somehow their staff turns into a Leo Mazzone staff. Then all of a sudden...they have no interest in pitching, and the market declines. of events. Teams ALWAYS need pitching. I really doubt the Sox would trade Contreras at the deadline if they are contending, unless he's really struggling, it would make no sense. KW already said they have to get pitching back and equal value for Contreras. This most likely eliminates any deal with the Mets.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) And barely anything is known about Anderson Gomes so how can anyone say that he's a good prospect yet? Right now, he's just a prospect. As is Milledge.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:36 PM) There's probably a bigger gulf between being drafted highly and performing in the minor leagues than there is between performing in the minor leagues and performing in the Majors. You are right, but a guy like Patterson was taken 3rd overall. If you look at the first round of the 2000 draft, it may be one of the worst first rounds in any sport ever. The point being there was something someone saw that made these guys so desirable. High draft picks make a lot of money these days. There are a lot of guys that tear it up in the minors and are busts in the majors. I've never seen Milledge play, so I couldn't comment on him. But no matter what, I wouldn't trade a #1 like pitcher for him when I'm trying to win a championship, and it doesn't matter where this thread goes, KW wouldn't make that trade either, unless maybe in July if the Sox were out of it.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:27 PM) Felix Hernandez was a top prospect. Albert Pujols was a top prospect. Frank Thomas was a top prospect. Whats your point about Corey Patterson? My point is many top prospects don't pan out. Pitching wins championships. There is a far better chance Jose Contreras will outperform Milledge in the major leagues in 2006. BTW, Pujols was a 13th round pick. The White Sox wanted to draft Simeon High School star Jeff Jackson in 1989. The Phillies drafted him before the Sox had a chance to. He turned into a bust. The White Sox took their second choice, Frank Thomas.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:26 PM) Again, I thought to be great you would have to prove to be sucessful year after year. I guess I'm wrong though.. whoopsie. And this debate is getting pretty pointless. The same thing is being said over and over again, and it all started because the original article said the Mets would probably have to part with Milledge. It didn't even say that Milledge was involved in any potential deal, it just said that he would likely have to be. You're being hypocritical. You want Milledge because you can have him for 6 years and he is predicted to be good. Makes you wonder what the Mets are thinking if they have a superstar in the minors but keep looking for corner outfielders, even considering Sammy Sosa.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:21 PM) Yes, because I, unlike most Sox fans on this board, don't hate prospects, and in fact like them, especially ones that are top 10 in the league. The way I see it is we can get 1 year of Contreras or 6+ years of Milledge. Take your pick, I'd take Milledge anyday of the week. Corey Patterson was a top prospect, a can't miss guy. He turned into a guy who usually missed. I like the horse that led the White Sox to the world title.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:19 PM) I'm assuming you are talking about the WS, if not, sorry in advance. He had a 3.86 ERA in his only 2005 WS start. Now, thats a small sample size, yes, but that doesn't look too ace-like. (not to mention his 5.68 ERA in the 2003 WS) Well then, is Buerhle's 4.91 ERA in the World Series "ace-like"? Maybe the Sox should trade him. Using postseason stats is way too small of a sample size. Barry Bonds would have been run out of baseball before he discovered his mystery cream if postseason stats were the end all. Also, going by what you 2 guys have been saying, shouldn't Jermaine Dye be dealt soon as well? He may have an option for 2007, I'm not sure, but he has had some lean years, and if he has another one, the option won't be picked up and they will lose him for nothing.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:07 PM) Hey, believe what you want about prospects. Joe Borchard has the majority of the people here paranoid about prospects, and you need to get over it. And no, this trade doesn't help the White Sox at the major league level, unless you believe McCarthy will do better starting than Contreras will, which is what I do believe. In 2004, Contreras sucked in New York and Chicago. In the start of 2005, Contreras was average. In the second half of 2005, he was superb. That makes one of the best pitchers in the league? I thought pitchers had to be consistantly good to be one of the best, silly me. He sucked in Chicago too, or did you forget about that? How does it appear KW agrees with you? This is the offseason, there is no limit on when the deals can be made. Hell, spring training hasn't even started yet. If a deal with Contreras is being worked on, its going to be worked on for awhile, mainly because it will be a rather big deal for our team. But you are advocating trading him for a guy who hasn't batted once in the major leagues. At least Contreras, who was one of the 2 or 3 best pitchers in MLB from July 1st on, and started the first game in all 3 postseason series which netted the White Sox its first World Championship in 88 years has shown he can pitch well in MLB. The guy was pretty good in 2003 with the Yankees. I saw him shut down a pretty good White Sox offense late that year. Even in 2004 when his overall performance wasn't very good, he had some dominating games. It looks like he's got it together now, and should be a dominating pitcher. What happened to all the Don Cooper cures all pitchers anyway? He'll still be here. I am a little worried about the effect of no Duque, but Contreras has had a spotlight on him for a long while before he came to the US, so he should be fine.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 06:27 PM) So you won't feel bad if we keep Contreras, fail to win another World Series or even make the playoffs, and Contreras goes on to sign elsewhere once the season is over? I know it's a risk to trade Contreras but come on... No I wouldn't feel bad. That is how organizations that are going for it operate.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) That's not my argument. I think Contreras can be a stud next season but I also think it's possible that he isn't very good. My argument is that I don't won't to lose him after 2006 and get nothing in return. If we actually received draft picks for losing him to free agency, I wouldn't mind as much. But Contreras has the same contract as Hideki Matsui did. There's no compensation if we lose him to free agency. And if he goes somewhere else, the money the organization has put aside to sign him will be available for other players, whether in trade or free agents, and there are some pretty good looking free agents next season.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 06:21 PM) Frank Thomas has been injury-plagued and has only played in 108 games (345 AB's) over the past 2 seasons. Losing him isn't a big blow because he hasn't contributed much due to injuries. Letting a quality starter go after one season and getting nothing in return would hurt much more. You are not getting nothing in return. You get his 2006 season. If it leads you to the world championship, it is better than getting any organizations top 5 prospects. What if Konerko would have signed with the Angels? Would that have meant the Sox should have traded him last winter? Give me a break.

So basically the argument is that Contreras won't be any good in 2006. I disagree, and will remind people that pitching wins. The gamble would be trading a guy who was your best pitcher the second half of a season you won the WS and was the starting pitcher for the first game in each postseason series for a prospect who probably wouldn't even be on your major league team in 2006. From July on he was better than Buerhle, better than Garland, better than Garcia and better than Vazquez. Considering the $95 million investment JR has in this year's team, trading Contreras for a prospect is insane.

Why is it that a lot of people on this board say the White Sox can't afford to let Contreras go for nothing? You get his services in 2006. The other thread had post after post calling Frank Thomas the greatest player in team history. He was let go for nothing, how come it wasn't necessary to trade him last offseason?

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 05:16 PM) No way will I miss that game. There's a pretty good chance Frank will.

If the White Sox truly believed Frank Thomas could be counted on make it through an entire season healthy, he still would be here. They gave up a popular player and some decent prospects for a guy who is also a health risk for his replacement. Considering his new contract, which has incentives on plate appearances and not being on the DL, and no incentives on performance, the A's, while being probably a little more optimistic about Frank's health than the White Sox, still have a great concern about it.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:06 AM) That's unfortunately probably the sad reality. Which personally I don't think is the right strategy. We could only have JC for 1 more season. Milledge could be a superstar on this team for 10+. Sometimes you have to look at more then just the present season. EDIT: It's kind of like the Coco Crisp for Andy Marte trade. A little short - term pain, for a gain in the long - term that should outweigh it. Milledge may or may not be a star. His numbers thus far are no better than Jeremy Reed's before he was dealt to Seattle with a couple of others for what could have been 3 months of Freddie Garcia. It appears a lot of people have already written off Reed as a potential star. I still think he's going to be a very good hitter, and he plays surprisingly exceptional defense. Contreras showed last season that he's a #1 pitcher. You don't give those guys up for prospects when you are in position to win the WS. The White Sox are in a different position than they have been in the past. The have a legitimate shot of winning it all again, and there is no guarantee Contreras is gone after this season anyway.

Milledge for Contreras doesn't help the White Sox in 2006, plus remember KW saying he wants pitching back if he deals Contreras.