Dick Allen

A lot of people seemed worried about losing Contreras and not getting anything in return. How about letting Contreras pitch out the season, and if he doesn't re-sign, take the money set aside for re-signing him and go after another free-agent, or take another financially challenged teams salary dump. Letting Contreras walk doesn't necessarily mean getting nothing for him.

Jeter is the better all around hitter. He also operates under a microscope in NY which makes his accomplishments more impressive. Uribe is a good SS. He just doesn't have the baseball IQ of a player like Jeter.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 12:23 PM) Despite what the Kool-Aid drinkers think, Jeter has always been a very good defensive SS. Certainly not on Ozzie Smith or Omar Vizquel's level, but still an excellent defensive player. The only thing that Uribe has over Jeter is youth. I think Uribe has a stronger arm, and probably a little more power. Jeter is not too quick defensively up the middle. Obviously Jeter is a better all around player, but certainly not as much as their salary differences would insinuate.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 10:29 AM) Yeah, I watched the whole postseason and the parade. I also know how Williams and Reinsdorf like to run the franchise which is something you are still unable or unwilling to grasp. Tejada's postseason stats? Please, stop it. You can manipulate small samples any way you want. Tejada is arguably the top SS in the game. The point, which I will reiterate because you are unable to grasp it, is if Contreras indicates an unwillingness to sign an extension, the Sox will move him rather than lose him for nothing. If he signs, great, I love a deep pitching staff. If he won't sign, I want the best possible return. I suspect this is what Williams is thinking, again, I am trying to think along with him vs. what you do, which is throw out your opinion and ignore the way they do business. It appeared, and who really knows the whole story, like KW was more prepared to move Garland if he didn't sign than Contreras, who he said he would have to be overwhelmed to move. The White Sox appear to be leaking bad information, because the 2 guys who report on this situation the most, Levine and Cowley, and thus far been pretty wrong with their information. It could be KW thinks Contreras would be easier to sign if he played out the season with the Sox. Chances are other teams would be reluctant to give him a 5 year contract, whereas Garland, if he pitches in 2006 like he did in 2005 would have probably got 5. Personally, I think KW and JR are all about 2006 right now, and won't trade Contreras unless its a deal they feel makes the 2006 roster stronger.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 06:33 PM) I don't think Taveras is a bad player, but all this 'oh you evil stats people' is bs. Look at the stats or don't, I don't care, Taveras has zero power. I don't want 2 places in the lineup (in the outfield, no less) occupied by players with flyswatter bats. I agree that obp is more important than power at the top of the lineup, but I think it's absurd to jettison pop entirely. The other problem is if he were to bat ninth or second, he would be back to back with Pods. That's 2 guys back to back that are going to have a tough time driving in a run from third with less than two out. And before I get jumped on by people saying it wouldn't be his job to drive in runs, Iguchi drove home a lot from the 2 hole. Uribe and Crede drove home their fair share from the 9 hole. Having 2 guys in your line-up in the AL who would be hard pressed to drive home 35 runs a piece is not good.

If Taveras is such a great player, why was he benched for 2 games in the NLCS?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:59 PM) Not to mention the fact that Taveras's 2005 season really wasn't all that great. Well, it was great if you only look at things like AVG and SB. Beat me.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:55 PM) But your argument is that Willy Taveras is a "proven player" because of his one good season (2005). Shingo was also good for only one season (2004). Couldn't Taveras very well suck in 2006 just like Shingo did in 2005? A "proven player" is a player who has put up more than one good season. And when you look at Taveras' one season, it isn't all that stellar. Its not like they are making room for him in Cooperstown.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) They traded Shingo after only 31 appearances and a disasterous 5.91 ERA. And, IIRC, Hermanson was still the closer at that point. Comparing Shingo's performance to Taveras' is just silly. But Shingo's ERA in 2004 was stellar, so by your definition it shows he should still be far more effective than a guy like Jenks who replaced him who never pitched above AA.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:48 PM) If given the choice, yes, you should. Do you think that they would've gone with Jenks had Hermanson not had back problems? Jenks would have been called up, he probably wouldn't have closed, but it is another example of a guy with no major league track record getting the job done. Anderson can get the job done. If he doesn't KW will make a move and bring in someone far better than Willy Taveras.

How is Borchard a bust? The guy hit .417 last year. He has proven he can hit major league pitching.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:41 PM) I never said that they should. I do. Or is there some reason to rush Anderson? Let Taveras start for a year and then think about Anderson as your long-term plan. So the Sox wouldn't be trying to win in 2007 because Anderson would surely be ready by then wouldn't he? Basically what you are saying is you shouldn't rely on guys without major league track records if you are trying to win. Seems to me the White Sox won a World Series with a closer who never pitched higher than AA 3 months before the World Series.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:37 PM) Sure, but why not have a backup plan in place? Especially when said backup plan only costs the league minimum? If it means trading Jose Contreras it is stupid. You get a middle reliever, a back-up plan and a minor leaguer for someone who is ace material. For a team trying to win a championship, it makes absolutely zero sense.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:31 PM) No he wasn't. When was he drafted? 2000? 2001? He played 16 games each in '02 and '03. He wasn't rushed at all. He was simply a big, fat, freaking bust. Borchard didn't play a whole lot of baseball until he became a pro. He may be a bust, I hope he's not, but he has a lot of ability. He has a great attitude, and is supposed to be one of the nicest people to ever wear a White Sox uniform. He needs to relax and believe in himself. If he made the Sox or another ML team and got hot for a couple of weeks, I truely believe he could use that as a springboard to a pretty decent career.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:26 PM) (1) The Sox were rebuilding at the beginning of 1990 (2) For every Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas, there are several "prospects" who never hit well at the major-league level. How'd our last CF prospect (you know, the one that got the $5 million signing bonus) turn out? For all I know, Brian Anderson could be the next Griffey. Then again, he could be the next Joe Borchard. If the Sox are trying to win right now, it's preferable to go with a player who brings several positives (speed, defense) and isn't a liability at the plate than a guy who may or may not pan out. Of course, the price would have to be right to make such a move. Taveras got an opportunity to play with a team that was trying to win, he had 1 career at bat going into last season and his team made it to the WS. The White Sox have potentially a far better line-up in 2006 than the Astros had in 2005. Anderson will be hitting eighth or ninth, not much offense will be expected or needed from him. Its about as ideal of situation to break in with a World Champion as you could hope. I think the kid will do fine, if not you deal for a CF when he fails. Guys like Taveras are always available.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:24 PM) Are you serious? The word on the street was that his watch was stopped at 4:20.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:18 PM) ..and you know what, f*** Mike Caruso's 1998 season where he proved to be a .306 hitter. His OBP was a pathetic .331, but unlike Taveras he had a BB/K of 14/38 instead of 25/103. He also stole bases at a better rate than Taveras too. They appear to be very similar offensive players. I doubt Taveras flames out as quickly as Caruso, if I'm not mistaken Caruso spent too much time around a bong and not enough working on getting stronger and becoming a better baseball player. But I'm sure if you asked 100 scouts who they would rather have between Anderson and Taveras, a big majority would say Anderson.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) Good question. Is Brian Anderson starting CF material after hitting .176 in 13 games earlier this year? Has he "proven" to be worthy of a starting position on the defending WS champs? Robin Ventura was given the starting 3b job with the White Sox in 1990 after hit a robust .178 in 45 ABs with no homers. The White Sox won 94 games in 1990.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:14 PM) That's a slight dropoff. After that he didn't play in the majors until 2002 when he had 2 hits in 20 at bats, and that was all for him.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:11 PM) I've still haven't heard him answer the question. WCSox, Was Mike Caruso a "proven" MLB hitter after batting .301 in 1998? He actually hit .306 with 22 steals in 28 attempts. The next season he hit .250 with 12 steals in 26 attempts.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:02 PM) It seems I'm really overrating Prior, even over the O's. I know in Sullivan's article he said O's basically told the Cubs no Zambrano no deal. But with all these names being thrown around I would want Prior out of any of them. Trust me, by no means am I a Cubs fan, but he is younger than Jose and a lot better than Benson or Clement. I think if the Cubs do a similar deal but put Pie or Cedeno in there the Cubs would have the inside track. I agree, but maybe there is concern about his elbow. He wasn't the same after he came back. I also think the Cubs would have an advantage to acquiring him because they are in the NL. If they did this other trade and Tejada came to Baltimore as a Red Sox and hammered Benson and Clement on back to back nights, the Orioles front office would be idiots in their fans eyes, not that they aren't already.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) i think that is b'mores only reason for not trading tejada to boston, besides money. Contreras would be a good pick up for Baltimore. If he continues to dominate, you know they won't be in contention, they could trade him at the deadline for a slew of prospects. Angelos saves more money to try and sign free agents next year, plus they have some more young players to add to the mix.

That 4 way deal that supposedly is on the table with the Mets, Tampa, and Boston nets the Orioles Lugo, who is a free agent after 2006, Kris Benson who has never been very good, and his wife, while awfully hot, is a pain in the ass and Matt Clement. 2 overpaid pitchers and an average SS who will head to the hills after the season. The Sox if they were to give up Contreras, Uribe and a minor leaguer would seem to be the better deal. Plus, you don't have Tejada making 3 trips into your park every year to rub it in your face. I still think the Orioles would prefer to trade him to the NL.

On the other board someone there claims Phil Rogers said on the Score that he believes Tejada will be traded to the Sox next week. Anyone hear this?

As to Taveras' .291 batting average, didn't Mike Caruso hit .300 his rookie year with the White Sox?