iamshack

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) What part of "of course they can't force a player to do something" did you not understand? I wasn't challenging your response, Steff. I was mentioning another deal where a discount was given. And if there are no negative implications other than the MLBPA getting themselves in a tizzy about the contract, who the hell cares if they get involved? You stated "you bet your ass they would" when commenting on whether they would get involved. Well tell me what are the implications upon the White Sox of their involvement then? If those are not significant tangible negative implications, I could give a sh*t if they get involved or not.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:25 PM) That was also a restructuring of a deal he had previously signed. It added more money up front and 4 years to the original deal. Carpenter was smart to take that deal, considering his injury problems he wasn't going to make it to his 2009 free agent year in 1 piece. Well he looks smart right now for taking it, but at the time many thought he had given the Cardinals exactly what Mark could be giving us right now- a hometown discount at well-below market value.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) Roy's deal was $70M ish.. perhaps a bit under market, but not $20 MILLION under market. What about Chris Carpenter's deal though? Wasn't it 5/65? That's basically the same deal, but 1 year longer and 500k a year more than the number being mentioned here. The MLBPA would be frustrated by this deal, but their involvement would have no implications upon anything.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) You bet your ass they would. They cannot force a player to walk away from a deal he wishes to accept because he wants to stay in a particular place. They can admonish him if they choose, but they cannot quash an extension of 4/50 simply because it is below market-value offer. Several players have chosen to accept below-market deals to accomodate a team which they really wanted to stay with. Buehrle would be perhaps the highest profile to do so, but we're talking about money that 12-18 months ago would have been extremely substantial. Remember, AJ Burnett's deal at 5/55 was viewed as exhorbitant back in 05'. Simply because prices skyrocketted last season does not mean 4/50 is somehow a ridiculous deal. Take your mind out of the current landscape just for a moment, and that's still one hell of an extension. And in 2 years, when Mark is making $12.5 annually, I'll bet there are plenty of pitchers similarly talented that are struggling to get that number annually.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 11:47 AM) Why would he need to go behind the agent's back. The agent works for him, if he tells the agent he wants to sign a contract for X, unless its an illegal contract the agent should work it out. Well, considering Jose's agent lied to him about our extension offer to him last year, it wouldn't be all that crazy. As soon as Jose found out about our offer he immediately accepted it. Of course, Jose does not speak english and therefore does not even read the newspaper, but still...

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) What was the 99% quote? Phil Arvia wrote a column last week saying a source close to Buehrle stated there was a 99% chance of Mark returning to the White Sox next season. It was later speculated that the source was Mark's Dad.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) There seems to be a certain source who's telling people that 4/50 is a possibility. I highly doubt someone with as many connections as Ken Rosenthal is reporting what he's hearing on the Score. Rosenthal has scooped everyone in baseball over the past two years, but it sounds as though he was taken by surprise here. One thing, however, is that he is acknowledging it may be true, which is encouraging. Other rumors that come out, he either doesn't comment on them or denies their accuracy. The fact that he's jumping on this thing lends credence to its accuracy IMO.

It's both, but they would bend on the years if the annual price wasn't $15 million, IMO. Also, there is the issue of a huge total % of payroll being tied up in 5 guys as well as us having very little young talent and Mark as our main trading piece.

No. They likely would offer something like Joel Guzman/Zobrist/Cantu is the hopes that we would bite and then they could take the comp picks when Mark walks.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 02:30 PM) Straight up for Willis? Do the Marlins do that? Well, even though Willis' star has faded a bit, I still don't think they do it. The Marlins want mlb-ready OFs, not 18 year olds. By the time Martinez is producing adequately at the Major League level, guys like Cabrera/Ramirez/Ugla/Willingham/Johnson/Olsen/Sanchez/etc are starting to get expensive. Of course, their payroll will increase once they get a new stadium, but IMO, they are looking for guys closer to being ready, such as Adam Jones/Carlos Gomez/Jacoby Ellsbury/Billy Butler/etc. But then again, what the hell do I know...

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) Jeff Suppan not cutting it? Not unless you want an NL pitcher producing a 5 ERA and a 1.5 WHIP.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) It's not such a dumb question. He wasn't including Sosa in the discussion. Even if you go Buehrle over El Duque (and, in fairness, Hernandez has been great so far this year -- not saying it will last, but it's still something to say you'll sit a guy with a sub-3 era), you still have to sit either Glavine, Pedro, Maine, or Perez. I don't see any clear-cut choice. Well, counting on Pedro is the problem here. There are absolutely no indications thus far that he will be able to pitch effectively IF he does in fact return. Additionally, I think it's pretty clear-cut. You bump Perez or Maine. Come on now? You have the World Series on the line and you're going to pitch John Maine or Oliver Perez over Mark Buehrle?

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 02:16 PM) Am I the only one who doesn't believe the Milledge stuff? After the rap song, I read all these articles about how he was considered lazy, wasn't liked in the clubhouse, was a shame to the organization, and would never be a Met. Now he's an untouchable cornerstone of the organization, even though he's been injured most of the year. Whatever the reluctance last year, I find it tough to swallow this time around. No, from what I have read, they are extremely excited about Gomez and Martinez, and are willing to deal Milledge. They're probably putting up a charade though to try and keep his value as high as possible. That doesn't mean they would move him for Jose, but I certainly think they would for Mark.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) LMAO Because both of them have post season playoff experience, have thrown a no hitter, have faced american league lineups all the time. I'm honestly not certain that Gallardo couldn't be better than Mark. He's just got flat-out wicked stuff. But I'll give the nod to Mark because of his experience. As for Capuano, he's been flat out bad this year, as has Suppan. Then you have Sheets, who is due to get injured in about 4 weeks (as he does annually).

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 01:46 PM) Me too. And if you would, and I would, I doubt Omar would accept that. The Mets do have some talented young OFers, but I've read several times that they plan on building around Gomez/Beltran/Martinez, NOT Milledge. I think Omar moves Milledge before Martinez, personally.

Interestingly enough, there was some mention over at MLBtraderumors.com of GM's trading for players specifically to receive the compensation picks. There has been some speculation that this is the interest the DRays may have in Buehrle- to offer players they deem less valuable than the compensation picks they could get when Mark walks. Kenny may have fallen prey to this as a young GM, however, I assume he is wise to this tactic at this stage in his career.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 01:43 PM) Correct. I am not a fan of Gomez. I believe he is the overhyped flavor of the week. I think Fernando Martinez is the real deal. Include him or get nothing. OK - well Steve Philips was on Mike and Mike yesterday and had a completely different opinion than you. He mentioned Fernando Martinez by name and said that he is a player the Mets have available because of their young OF talent. He is someone that could be let go and have a package built around him to get a Mark Buehrle or Jose Contreras. I move Jose yesterday for Fernando Martinez.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 01:40 PM) The Brewers already have a logjam of starters, so much so that they've discussed moving Gallardo to the pen. I'm sceptical. In any case, the last thing they're going to do is hurt the offense to help the rotation. Braun and Weeks aren't going anywhere. (Gallardo too, but for other reasons.) You're right, but if you think they want to hold off the Cubs in that division and win in the postseason with Dave Bush and Claudio Vargas, rather than Mark Buehrle, I think you'd be mistaken. They've won plenty of games without Weeks. I'm not saying they would definitely move him, but I think he would be a guy they would consider before some of the other players which Kenny might demand.

The Brewers Organization is steadfastly denying they have even spoken with the White Sox, although they don't deny that they may in the future. Gallardo, Braun, and the rest of their blue chippers are probably off the block, but perhaps Manny Parra, who threw a perfect game in AAA last night would be someone to discuss. Parra replaced Gallardo at AAA when Gallardo received his call up. Parra was 7-3 with a 2.68 ERA in the Southern League with 81 k's in 80.2 innings.

According to this article: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ Interesting stuff. Talk amongst yourselves.

I think it's merely to get as many teams into the bidding as possible. If you're talking about allowing a window, you're basically going to have 3 teams involved (Yankees/Mets/Boston). Maybe 4? (Cardinals?) But if you refuse to allow the window (or claim you will), that opens it up to 10-12 teams, several of which cannot afford to sign Mark to a long-term deal. I think it's sort of a ploy to get the Yankees/Mets/Red Sox to up their bid, by making them first outbid ALL the teams, and then outbid eachother. I don't think KW has any illusions of signing Mark long term, and he probably honestly knows the best package will come from a team that inks Mark to an extension. Maybe this is his way of squeezing the most out of the trade.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 12:40 AM) Well Phew, thank god for Andy the Messiah. My High School physics teacher played minor league ball with Jeriome. What that has to do with anything I don't know, but I thought I'd share since I'm sure all of you guys wanted to know that awesome fact. We're happy for you! Seriously, it's just nice to see our pen hold up for once and to win a game. How pathetic is it that I felt like I was on top of the world tonight. So I looked at the numbers tonight....the bright side is, we only have to go 65-25 to win 95 games this year....

I disagree. They burned us on Sosa more than we've burned them on Jon. I think they would willingly take Buehrle if they thought they needed him. But I think they're pretty happy with what they're getting with Zambrano/Lilly/Marquis/Hill/Marshall.

As much as I love Jose, I'd pretty much take anything for him if we could ditch his contract. It isn't that I think it's a bad contract; it isn't. It's more that our timeline just no longer meshes with it. We need to go young and get this train back on track. Paying $10 million annually to Jose does little for us considering our chances of competing probably aren't good until at the earliest 09'. I guess the same goes for Jon, but then again, I'm in favor of extending him if at all feasible.

Again, I think we are misunderstanding the point of the article. While the Mets may be willing to part with some talent for Jose, that doesn't mean they are willing to part with any of their top 5 prospects. It just means they are willing to part for some talent for a pitcher who would be under their control for another 2 years as opposed to one under their control for another 3 months. It makes sense, but it doesn't mean you're getting Milledge/Pelfrey/Gomez/Guerra. I do think it may be possible to get Humber though.