iamshack

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:03 PM) Jose is up to a 4.80 ERA, 1.45 WHIP and isn't striking anyone out. He's believed to be atleast over 40 years of age but no one really knows for sure, his stuff has deteriorated at a shocking rate since he's now throwing exclusively in the high 80's with no strikeout pitch that he can throw for a strike and he's guaranteed $20M over the next 2 seasons. If he doesn't finish this year off strong it could be REAL tough to move him this offseason without eating any of the contract. I'm assuming you are referring to him not being able to get his forkball over for a strike. He doesn't have to throw it for a strike everytime, he just has to prove he can throw it for a strike at times. I have disagreed with the way AJ calls Jose's games for as long as I can remember- he needs to be throwing the forkball more than he does. Another thing, remember this when you are comparing our starter's ERA's to past years: This bullpen has stranded ZERO inherited runners this year. Every guy they inherit they allow to score and I cannot IMAGINE how much that has inflated the ERA's of Javy and Jose this season.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) Yeah, Soriano/Lilly/Marquis/Derosa are just killing the Cubs this season. Oh, it's not now that they will kill the Cubs. Check back in 2009 and see how that's working out for them...

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:04 PM) Giving Vazquez a 3 year extension before the final year of his previous contract was the equivalent of a 4 year deal. Buerhle's been a much better pitcher unless you base everything on what you see in the bullpen warming up. The policy has been fine, its worked out time and time again. I do remember JR stating the one guy they would have gone longer on was Alex Fernandez because of his mechanics. That wouldn't have worked either. It depends on what Buerhle wants per season, but I think I would take a chance on a 5 year with him if I was KW. He doesn't throw hard, and doesn't walk guys. I think he's as good of bet as anyone to be able to make it through without catasrophe I don't even think the people in favor of dealing him are so worried about him being injured. It's more the fact that you really leave yourself little room for error when you've got two players making 40% of your payroll, and 4 making 60%. Kenny signed the players that were willing to exchange some years for security, and they are with the club now. Mark didn't want to, and he will be the one used to strengthen this team's future.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:59 AM) I've always said you offer 5/75 by the end of June, and if he says no, then you trade him. If the Sox are planning on going with a payroll in the 80 to 90 million range over the next few years, they're going to be a bad team. Let's face it....an 80 million dollar payroll isn't the same as it was a few years ago, as medicore pitchers are getting 10 million easily these days. All I know is that if we lose Buehrle and Garland, but keep Contreras and Vazquez, then KW better not have a job next year. Well, the market right now is ridiculous, but that certainly doesn't mean you have to participate in it and it certainly doesn't mean you can't win unless you do. In fact, the teams that participate in it the most are the ones who probably cannot win. Ahem, Cubs, ahem, cough. While I agree that $80 million is not what it was two years ago, there still are plenty of ways to win without having a $120 million payroll. To me, the key will be developing position players and signing durable starting pitching. That's why I don't criticize KW for signing Javy and Jose. He is on to the value of durable starting pitching, he just didn't realize how far behind the ball we were in developing the position players. Mark would probably be a perfect signing for this club if we had the young position players to put on the field. Unfortunately, the time has come where we need to deal Mark in order to get those players from other clubs.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:47 AM) Just out of curiousity, how high should the Sox being willing to go in terms of years and dollars? To me, honestly, I don't know how much sense it really makes to sign him. With the way things are starting to look, what sense does it make to keep him around? If he stays, it means he is making $15 million a year, thereby inhibiting the team's ability to sign other players, and we probably are around a .500 team. What's the point of having a $15 million player if your team is sitting at .500? The best thing to do is probably to rape another team towards the beginning of July (barring a run in the next few weeks) and building for the future.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) As someone on Comcast said last night, not only is he less of a risk on the field than most pitchers, but the Sox fans would forgive JR and KW in a heartbeat if Buehrle doesn't live up to his contract. Oh? So if the Sox suck in 2010 because Pauly is (even) slower and old, and Mark is pitching like 2006 again because his arm is tired, fans will still come out to the park because KW and JR were nice enough to re-sign Mark for the fans? BS. This team draws well for one reason, and that's winning.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:17 AM) Winner... I like Mark as much as anyone else, but I side with the "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy on this one. I can see where people would ask them to make an exception in Mark's case. He's the most durable pitcher in Major League Baseball over the past six years. Odds are he will always be very durable. But where I don't agree with re-signing him is simply because of the money he will command. I don't like the idea of committing that high a % of the payroll to any one player. It's unfortunate that the market for pitching has gotten so utterly ridiculous, but that doesn't mean we have to participate in it. I think it's just a case of bad timing. Two years ago, we would be able to sign him for 5/50. Two years from now, the market might settle a bit and the going rate for top tier starters may be 5/60. Unfortunately right now though, it's $15-18 million a year. That's just too much for my liking.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) Anyone who really feels the front office is sitting on their collective hands needs to have their head examined. Posturing is the name of the game. A little posturing goes a long way. We all know Kenny is listening to offers. It's not like other GM's call and he says "Are you kidding me? With the way these guys are playing right now? I'm concerned about upsetting the delicate balance they have going right now..." Kenny would listen to offers even were our record reversed. He always listens. He loves to deal. I don't think he is trying to stir up competition for our players yet, but he certainly is letting it be known that we have guys we will consider moving.

And those people that have paid attention should also realize that the policy that was implemented has worked out fairly well. If there is ONE thing KW has done extremely well is avoiding untradeable contracts. With all the horrible long-term deals given to pitchers over the past 10-12 years, I'm not quite sure how you can fault this particular policy of JR's.

To me, he wasn't bs'ing anyone. I think what he said was absolute honesty. Kenny is known to be fairly honest with the press and the fans, and I think this was another case of that. Take it for what it is. He doesn't know what to do quite yet.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 09:10 AM) Ok, ok, I've seen enough of this nonsense. If any of you truly believe Williams does not know his team is out of the race, you are really just daft. What is the guy supposed to say? "Yes, we're done, let the pillaging begin!" No. Konerko's comments can be interpreted in the same vein. "Yeah, boss, we're done. We can't win with these guys. I'm the captain and I'm telling you we're toast." It's time for a reality check. Williams and the very bright, very astute Rick Hahn both know this team is toast. This is all just posturing. It's how the game is played. Moves will be made to better the club for 2008 and beyond. Just hang in there. I really, really think you underestimate the competitiveness of our general manager.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 11:48 AM) I'm going to go ahead and agree with Kalapse that Byrnes probably would be just a little reticent to do that trade. Dude, if the DBacks put Upton on the maaket they could get a ton more than Dye. Collaspo for Dye might be possible, but I doubt it. And Broadway has an 86 MPH fatsball. He's not a #3 starter in the International League, let alone the NL. I feel sorry for Kenny Williams at this point. People are expecting him to trade Buehrle and Dye for 10 of Baseball America's top 20 prospects. You'd like to think if Kenny was intent on getting Callaspo he would have just gotten him instead of making the move to get Richar.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 15, 2007 -> 01:18 AM) First of all, Coop called North a jerkoff, no idea why jerkoff and ass are censored but whatever. Second, I hate North but he did nothing wrong here. This team is an embarassment and appears to have quit. He did nothing wrong? Asking Cooper if the team planned on laying down for the next three series was a valid question? He did nothing but try to start another fight the same way he did with Ozzie. He could of said "It looks like the team has been laying down as of late. What can you do to get them motivated?" Or "Some fans are grumbling that this team looks like they have quit. Do you feel as though that is the case to some degree?" THOSE, are valid questions. Asking the pitching coach, whose starting staff has been solid, if the team plans on laying down over the next 10 days is absolute bs.

Seriously though, North is absolutely trying to provoke people now. Who the hell asks a coach if his team is going to lay down the next three series' and not expect to get a sh*tty answer back? From the transcript, it appears Cooper handled it extremely well. It's devastatingly clear that the coaching staff of this organization is absolutely as befuddled and angry about their play as we are. We see it on their faces every game and hear it in their voices in every interview. Asking them if they are planning on laying down is a pretty bs question. Now if you want to ask Jermaine Dye if he plans on laying down....that's another thing.

He's obviously an extremely valuable commodity. And lefties are always in higher demand than right handers. He's been ultra-durable, and likely will be over the course of his career because of his easy delivery. He's a winning pitcher, he's young, and he's a great player to market your franchise around. Obviously, he and Pauly would be the best two White Sox players to build a foundation upon. Now for the bad news. Quality starting pitching has exploded in value over the past few years, especially last year. Aj Burnett's 5 year, 55 millon dollar deal seems like a bargain now, but when that deal was signed after the 04' offseason, most people thought it was fairly ridiculous. Zito's contract set a new standard last season, and while I don't think Mark's ultimate signing price will approach that, it is still something his agent can point to since Mark compares somewhat favorable to Zito in career numbers. He'll likely get somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 years, 75-90 million. With Pauly on the hook for $13 million over the next three seasons, Vasquez on board for about $11.3 million for the next three years, and Jon Garland and Jose Contreras making around $10 million next season, that's about $45 million committed to 4 players. If you are paying Mark Buehrle $15 million a year, you're looking at $60 million committed to 5 players. With a $100 million payroll, that leaves you with $40 million for the other 20 or so guys. Consider AJ makes $5 million, and Toby Hall $2 million. Add in Thome's salary of about $7-8 million, and Juan's option of $5 million, and that makes it more like $20 million for 16 guys, including 6 other starting position players, an entire bullpen, and a bench. Some teams could make this work- teams like the Angels, Dodgers and Diamondbacks. But that's only because they have a farm system ready to supply the big league club with solid, cheap, major league ready players. Not sure we can do that with the likes of Sweeney, Fields, Anderson, Terrero, and Andy Gonzalez. The better option is to try and deal Mark for 2-3 very high upside position players. Critical needs are second base, an OF with some power, and a shortstop that can possibly replace Uribe after 08'. Considering we have Jon, Javy, Jose, and John Danks for 08', we hopefully will be able to absorb Mark's departure without complete disaster, with perhaps one of Gio Gonzalez, Gavin Floyd, Charlie Haeger (although the big club doesn't seem exactly dying to give this guy a shot) Adam Russell, Lance Broadway, or Kyle McCulloch stepping in. Seeing the way this team has played thus far this year, it makes it even less compelling to give Mark a substantial % of the payroll to keep him around, as we probably won't be ready to win any division titles without an infusion of young talent. What is the point of paying Mark $15 million a season to pitch for a 70 win team? The smart thing to do is to start shopping Mark in about two weeks. I'd give this team that last 14 days to see if they can put together a streak against some weak ballclubs (duly noted that we are indeed, a weak ballclub right now). Barring a streak of any consequence over the next few weeks, I would start putting the word out now to any and all teams that are looking to make playoff runs. If you deal Mark in early July, you can sell him as a 3-month rental as opposed to a 2-month, and hopefully get a bit more value for him. Teams I would target are: Milwaukee, NYY, LAD, Boston (yes, I know Lester is close to getting back and replacing Tavares), St Louis, Philadelphia, San Diego, NYM, and Atlanta. If I'm KW, I'm looking at the best 2b prospects those teams have, and a ss with high upside perhaps a year or year and a half away. I'm also looking for an OF with some pop. If we can fill some of these key positions, the ballclub can recover from this rut somewhat quickly.

Gallardo is getting called up today. I'm not sure if he'll start right away, but if he can be league average over the next few weeks, I think they'd rather ride him out rather than give him to us for the next 6 seasons. I'm sure Kenny would ask for him, but he isn't going to get him. Now Weeks, that could be another story...

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 05:58 PM) Yeah I would but the kids always injured. 3 yrs straight hes going on? Im not one for taking those chances so Id most likely pass but if healthy do it. Well that's the only reason he might be available. The hope is that the Brewers find him expendable because of his injury history. Doubt they would, but teams eyeing a playoff run have done dumber things. Just as a sidenote, ESPN.com is quoting a scoute as saying KW is asking for the farm for Buehrle.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) So...would you trade Buehrle for Weeks? Could be the next Robbie Alomar. Good batting eye, hits for power. Hits for average. Steals bases. I know his major league stats aren't great yet...but he's only 24, had a minor league OPS of almost .900...and was the second overall pick in the 2003 draft. Frankly a guy who gets 1000 at bats in the majors before he turns 25 and maintains a .750 OPS at a position where its hard to find offense? Building block for the future. Would the Brewers? Buehrle and Sheets make an intriguing post season pair of aces. I brought up this possibility a few days back. I would think the Brewers might possibly be interested were we to entertain moving Mark, and I would hope Kenny would look at Weeks as a possibility in regards to the player we get in return. Undoubtedly Kenny will first ask for Yovani Gallardo, which the Brewers will say "absolutely not." However, Weeks might be a guy they would consider moving if they truly wish to make a push towards the postseason. Perhaps Iguchi could be included to get an arm coming back our way...

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 01:01 PM) Did the author really need to be so nasty as to point out that the D-backs won't be giving back Chris Young? Do you mean Chris Young of the amazing .722 OPS?

Apparently Buster Olney wrote an article today mentioning the DBacks as a good trading partner for Dye. He suggested players such as Alberto Callaspo (who was mentioned before), Mark Reynolds, and Scott Hairston. As we know, the DBacks are extremely stacked with young players, so they would be an intriguing possibility. While I personally have little interest in Callaspo and Hairston, Mark Reynolds is a very solid looking young player. Olney also mentions Micah Owings, who would be an excellent addition, but is probably asking a bit too much. I don't have Insider, but here is the link to the reference to the article on mlbtraderumors.com: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ What does everyone think about a possible deal with the Diamondbacks?

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 07:50 PM) Because? Jenkins should be able to post a .825-.850 OPS for us as a minimum in a good hitting environment, maybe even better. Terrero hasn't shown anything except for him small sample size that he can be a capable starting OF. He's nothing more than a backup OF in my mind who can maybe give you a little speed and pop off the bench. Well, obviously, we'll have a better idea after he gets more playing time this season. But from what I've seen thus far, Terrero runs well, has a great arm, has a lot of pop in his bat, can draw a walk, and takes good routes to the ball. He won't keep up his .900 OPS he has right now, but if he can keep it above .800, I'll take my chances with him next season.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 07:33 PM) Ah what the hell; 9 - Sign a decent OF in the off-season. Ryan Sweeney will have one spot, probably LF. Ichiro will man CF for you. Be on the lookout for someone who could have a bounce back season. I doubt Geoff Jenkins will be back with the Brewers next season. If he's not a type A FA, go after him. He always has an OPS around the .825-.850 mark, which is pretty decent. Sign him to Dye like deal for a couple of seasons that won't break the bank, but target him quickly to get him to sign. I'd rather take my chances with Terrero than Jenkins...

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:27 PM) He'd be an amazing acquisition, but there is no way this club is going to pick him up. Unless of course they are interested in Gio and multiple other guys (or we can get a third team involved that gets Dye and more prospects go or maybe someone like Buehlre). I do agree, I'd give up a boatload for him. The only way would be to deal Dye and Buehrle, and trade all the players received as well as some of our better prospects. Florida desperately needs OFs. They currently are playing the likes of Joe Borchard, Reggie Abercrombie, and Alfredo Almazega (sp?) in the OF. They have a lot of quality pitching, but would undoubtedly take more. They also could use a young 1b. If you could get Loney from the Dodgers, give them Fields and Sweeney, and then whatever pitching and OF prospects you've received for Buehrle, you might be able to interest them. However, I think they'd like to keep him at all costs- he's what makes that offense go along with HanRam and Uggla.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) The Sox don't have the young talent required to deal for him. He's one of the 5 best hitters in the game and is what 24 years old? Not happening. Because Miguel Cabrera is out of the Sox price (talent) range where as Melky Cabrera would be fairly easy to acquire. Maybe not as easily as two months ago. Torre has been praising Cabrera for his offensive surge since he began starting in centerfield (hitting close to .400), and it has given Damon a lift to as he has been playing CF. It's probably coincidence, but the Yankees are 10-2 since the move and have won 7 straight.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:10 PM) Are you arguing about his 2.59 ERA? No, I'm arguing about his being in much better shape this spring. It was nonsense. Jenks has been great, and I'm not arguing that he isn't pitching well. I'm just tired of the attitudes around here. Some posters obviously are more knowledgeable than others. And then some posters just think they are. But there is no need to insult people because you disagree with their comments. Alot of us are searching for answers and trying to think out of the box here. No need to meet those ideas with pure condescension every time.