iamshack

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 11:52 AM) Well I was a manager of a engineering team. I found that being honest with someone's skillset, and helping them develop as a person by not putting them in places where they have a higher probabilty to fail is a good way also. Not everyone is an expert at everything. Pods is not a defensive stud. In a 1-0 game its okay to replace him. If he doesnt understand that then he needs a shrink. I have had good people that have worked for me, that I have had to take a specific part of a project away, and give it to someone who has key technical knowledge in that area. Guess what, they were okay with it. And it motivated them to become better at that specific skill area. But then again maybe I should of taken a chance at shutting down my business because I didnt want to hurt one of my employees feelings. Right, and all this is REALLY easy to say right now, after the fact. I wonder what you said after Scottie hit the homer in Game two. Because if it were up to you, you would have replaced him, and who knows what might have happened. Again, the second guessing around here is a f'ing joke. To all the extreme armchair generals here, I want you to keep track, for one entire month, every move you would make in every one of our games. Type it in here, in real time, and allow us all to curse your pathetic ignorance everytime you are wrong or something doesn't happen as you thought it might.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 11:45 AM) How is it a bizarre chance? There was a single to the left fielder in which he had a chance to throw out the runner. That play happens numerous times throughout baseball every single night. It's bizarre chance to me that in a game in which our other two pitchers limited the A's to a grand total of 3 hits over eight innings, Bobby manages to give up that within 5 minutes, including one to Scottie with a runner at second with two outs. What do you think the chances of that sequence of events happening as it did, honestly? Now again, for the 400th time, I am not claiming the move you are suggesting was the wrong one strategically. But stuff happens. GET OVER IT. Jenks needs to pitch better. End of story.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 11:30 AM) What are you talking about, demoted? Its a defensive replacement. It happens all over baseball all over. Thank god we are not in the national league, or you would be upset if we pinch hit for the pitcher because it may bruise his ego. Its a defensive replacement late in the game. He is not taking ABs away from Pods. How hard is this to understand. You know what doesnt help with ones confidence, jumping up to catch a ball, landing, closing your eyes, and feeling an object that you know is the baseball smack you in the melon. Because if I am pods, stay away from ESPN highlights for the next week or so. I'm going to just agree to disagree with you. Try managing or dealing with a staff and then get back to me. You can spout off about professionalism all you want. But there is an art to manipulating a group of human beings that is entirely lost on you. What might have hurt us strictly by bizarre chance last night might help us tenfold in the future by how Ozzie handles some of his players. How hard is that to understand?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 11:17 AM) Well maybe Paulie will get a complex about being slow when Ozzie pinch runs for him. So lets keep Ozuna on the bench. Or maybe just maybe Gooch will get suicidal if Cintron starts a game. Maybe AJ will drop dead of a broken heart if someone else hits for him late in a game. Who cares. These are profesionals. Being taken out for a defensive replacement is common place in baseball. The very idea that we have to put a butcher out in the OF in a 1-0 game because of a fragile ego is sad at best. Oh that's such a machismo bs way to look at things. "They're professionals." How long have you been watching sports where you honestly think most players handle being demoted or being replaced in a strictly "professional" manner? They're human beings like everyone else. And while they must accept what their manager tells them to do, that does not mean that it does not affect their performance later on. And if you think it's weak that it does, well, aren't you just Ivan Drago's trainer in Rocky IV. Mr. Tough. It's well-known that Iguchi DOES whine when Ozzie benches him. When Toby Hall was signed and Ozzie said that AJ would sit against the lefties in our division alot more, guess who started WHINING about it? AJ. What about in 03' when Paulie couldn't hit a thing and was benched for it? He clearly was affected by his inability to perform well. What about when Jerry used to pull Jon Garland in the 4th inning every game when two men got on base? No one is saying these players should be whining about anything. After all, they are professionals, and they get paid extraodinarily well to do their jobs. But they are also human, and things affect their play. I'm merely suggesting Ozzie is trying to get the best out of his players at times by rewarding them for their efforts, even when perhaps it is not the best strategy in that situation to win the game. And if that's truly the case, I support him in doing so.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 11:01 AM) You are missing my point. It is not Pods fault he is a terrible defensive player. Up until the bottom of the 8th he is fine out there. He should have been pulled for the 8th and 9th. Jenks, AJ, Konerko, Erstad, etc all had sub-par games that will happen. Replacing Pods on defense makes your team better. There is no question at all about that. In close games that you are winning where he is not scheduled to bat late in the game, pull him. It is that simple. Yeah, I got your point. And I got it last night when Fathom and Kalapse said the same thing. Once again, I am not arguing that that is not the correct strategy in that situation. I'm arguing that Ozzie manages a team of human beings here and it's not quite as simple as a lot of people try to make it. If you've ever managed people before, you know that there can be extraordinary benefits which come out of keeping your employees happy. I simply think Ozzie is trying to build Scottie's confidence up, and reward him for his solid play. The difference in the team Podsednik makes when he is playing well and he is confident is so huge as opposed to when he is struggling and beating himself down. I know the vast majority of people will disagree (and most have already), but I'll take the once in a blue-moon blunder in the field by Scottie if he is stepping to the plate with confidence 600 times a season.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 10:59 AM) Gosh, I'm sure this thread seems interesting...the few posts I've read are basically people arguing over how to divide up the blame for last night's embarassment. Yeah, that's basically what it is. Sorry, I'm just so tired of the Pods and Ozzie broken-record bs. Believe it or not, there are other reasons we lose games sometimes.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 10:47 AM) Performing does not include playing decent defense apparently, though. And managers have to perform, too. Well I can sit here and pick apart every damned move of every game, and b**** about the umpires all day long as well. We can look to any number of variables that ultimately affected the outcome of the game. I'm not ignoring what Podsednik did, and I'm not ignoring what Ozzie did. But what it comes down to is Jenks. And I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it, too.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 10:11 AM) Jenks didn't do his job but it wasn't like he got pounded. He gave up three ground balls through the infield. Poor defense resulted in the loss. If anyone can not understand why Pods should not have been out there, you are missing an integral part of baseball. In the bottom of the 9th in a one run game you put your best defensive players on the field. I believe the reason Mack was not hit for was because his defense is better than Dye's. Pods has played really well this season but his defense is atrocious and will not get better. To leave him out there was a bad move. Guillen did not put his team in an obviously more favorable position ot win the game and therefore he failed. See, this is the prototypical Soxtalk post after a game like this. It's Pods fault. It's Ozzie's fault. No. It's f'ing Jenks fault! I watched 7 innings of Jon Garland pitch his ass off and manage to avoid "ground balls through the infield." Stop looking everywhere to place blame, when it's so obvious where the blame needs to be placed. Jenks didn't get the job done, and he blew the damned game. Not Ozzie. Not Podsednik. Jenks. Players have to perform.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 09:52 AM) An extra run would have/and should have been achieved. That is drives me nuts sometimes about this team...long ball or naught Well, fair enough. But Jenks was brought into the game with a lead and no one on base against a team that had managed three stinking hits all night with a teacup-sized strike zone. He is paid to finish off games, not give up runs. Ultimately, he lost the game. Oh well. Let's get them this afternoon.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:57 AM) Here's a question I have for you: if the Sox are up 1 tomorrow going into the 9th (and Pods started with Anderson on the bench), would you want Ozzie to keep Pods in the game? No. And throughout this entire thread, not once have I suggested that I would have been upset had BA been subbed for defensive purposes. But unlike the tonesetters here, I refuse to blame every goddamned loss on Ozzie or Scott Podsednik. This site is filled with armchair generals who know everything. On this site, God probably got second guessed for creating deserts in the early morning hours of the 5th day ("What the hell are we supposed to do with all this.....sand?"). It's a broken record, and it's lame. In my view, players have to be held accountable once in a while, and in this instance, that player is Bobby. He needs to wrap that game up and deliver it to Cooperstown. Instead, he gives up more hits than Garland and MacDougal gave up combined in 8 innings. This loss is on Bobby, and no one else.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:49 AM) Ugh, I don't think it's oversimplification to hope that Pods knows he's bad out there and Anderson is better. He was pulled a lot late in games last year because of this. He needs to realize what is best for the team and that's him hitting the bench in the 8th or 9th inning. And if he's really that hard on himself that he can't stand to be replaced late in games then I can't imagine what tonight's blooper real worthy exploits are going to do to him mentally. If the Sox need to sacrifice games just to keep him confident at the plate then I don't really want him around anymore. There are a lot of players out there who can do what he does. The number of actual games sacrificed because of his defense is absolutely miniscule compared to what he does for this team when he is playing well offensively. Miniscule.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:46 AM) Sure I say positive stuff about people that deserve it. I even started a thread congratulating our starting pitching for 4 great starts in a row. It just baffles me how anyone could excuse Ozzie for his decisions tonight. Then you followed up the thread with "We faced two poor offensive teams in Oakland and Minnesota though." and "This may be the pessimism in me, but I have a feeling Danks and Contreras would have gotten knocked around in the first three innings if they had faced a good hitting team..." I mean, come on dude. It baffles you how anyone could excuse Ozzie? WHAT do you want us to do to him? We have no control over what he does, or whether or not he has a job. The team is his, he does a solid job, and I cannot think of anyone else I would rather have managing this ballclub right now.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:42 AM) This is Ozzie's 4th year with the Sox, and 3rd year with Pods on the team. If he doesn't know how to best utilize his personnel by now, then he's a worse manager than I think he is. Do you EVER say anything positive? You have every right to complain, but the KIA attitude could be spared once in a while.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:37 AM) If Scott really has a problem with getting pulled late in games for a defensive replacement then something seriously needs to be done about him because he has some serious mental issues. Either he comes to the realization that he sucks in the field and pulling him is best for the team or he figures out how to catch and throw because if he's really going to pout or react poorly to Ozzie doing what's best for the team then Pods isn't much of a team player. Once again, an oversimplification. But this much we know: he's extremely hard on himself and will be cursing his own name like a sailor tonight as he is being "comforted" by Lisa Podsednik. I want his confidence high as can be because when he is on offensively, our team wins at an incredibly high rate. When it comes down to it, one or two miscues in the field may be well-worth the extra offense which comes from him being confident at the dish some 600 more times this season.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:31 AM) If he doesn't make an ass of himself in the 9th inning today, I would have praised him again after the game for looking pretty damn good at the plate just as I did yesterday. The only reason he's b****ed about is because he makes it incredibly easy. When you get hit in the head with a flyball to end the game you're going to catch some s***. His offensive production doesn't have much to do with his defensive inabilities late in ballgames. If he's pulled for a defensive replacement like he should have been I would have been incredibly happy with his offensive production from today. He's just catching a lot of second hand heat tonight where most of it is directed at Ozzie. I don't blame people for being frustrated with him as I am as well. HOWEVER, this board has to be more sophisticated than this. Realize what he is, and deal with it. Every goddamned thread turns into the Scott Podsednik thread here. On a more positive note, I ordered an authentic "Halfway to St. Patrick's Day" John Danks #50 jersey today from Grandstand....SOB better earn his keep now...

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:30 AM) At the same time, you can't just ignore his D either. His offense doesn't give him a waiver to knock balls off his noggin. I'm not saying his D should be ignored, and I wouldn't have had any problem with subbing for him. However, we don't know how he reacts to that. Ozzie is dealing with real people here, folks, and even if they are professionals, I am going to trust he knows how to manipulate them better than we do.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:21 AM) It started the second game of the season. I remember posting "Have there been any defensive substitutions?" "Who's out in LF, why are they not saying anything?" "Why is he leaving Pods out in LF?" in the 8th inning of game 2. I just don't understand why Ozzie does one thing last year then says in the offseason he's going to do it again this year then 7 games with ample opportunities he doesn't do it once. Is this some sort of special season where Ozzie lies about everything in the Spring to throw off the opponent? This is absolute oversimplification. We know NOTHING about what goes on with the members of this team personally, or behind closed doors. All I know is that he's the ONLY player who's doing ANYTHING consistently offensively right now. Yet all this entire board can talk about is his outfield defense. Jesus people, maybe if Jenks doesn't give up THREE hits in the inning, the same number as Garland did in SEVEN innings, it's not an issue. Maybe if Paul Konerko or Darrin "the savior" Erstad could get some god damned hits instead of pathetically waving at balls 8 inches off the plate when the umpire's zone is the size of a teacup, we would score more runs and win the damned game. To rest this entire BS on Scott Podsednik is just absolutely s***. Jesus, get off him already...

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:12 AM) It had nothing to do with Jenks, Ozzie was fine in that regard. It was his use of his outfielders that bothered me. I'm pretty sure it's easy to switch your fielders around and make substitutions. I don't think there's any complicated levers or dials to be fiddled with that might confuse the manager but I've never been in a major league dugout during a game so who knows. I don't disagree with you. He should have made the defensive change. He didn't. The fact that you think it was fine to bring in Jenks though makes it extremely clear how much reasonable opinions can differ here though. I wanted no part of Jenks in that situation, because his velocity isn't there and the A's are an extremely good fastball-hitting team. I can sit here and say Ozzie should have not gone to Jenks, simply because he is our "closer" in a 1-0 game. Moreover, the fact that you think it was ok to leave Jenks in there after he gave up two sharp singles immediately makes it even more clear how reasonable opinions should differ. I would have gone to Thornton to get Chavez and Swisher. Everything isn't always black and white. Even when things work out the way you thought they might, Kalapse.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 01:06 AM) I agree that we call him out on everything. It's just that when there's obvious situations where something needs to be done, it pisses us off when it's not made. Mackowiak's AB in the 7th is a great example. I doubt any other manager in baseball lets him bat there. And I doubt any other umpire calls Scottie out on a foul ball bunt claiming he hit it while being out of the box....stuff happens....these umpires in Oakland have really SUCKED, btw.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 12:59 AM) Still doesn't explain why he wouldn't put Anderson in the field for the 9th inning. Also, for someone that makes so many decision in order to play the percentages, I have no clue why he let Mackowiak face a LHP in the 7th inning. I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have made the defensive replacement. I'm suggesting that sometimes the players have to perform too. And Kalapse, I said immediately after the top of the 9th ended, Bobby is going to blow this save. I say things all the time. Sometimes I am right, most of the time I am wrong. Bottom line is, we can second guess all we want, it isn't as simple as you'd like to make it. And if indeed, it is as simple as you make it, how stupid are you for sitting here with us and repeating it over and over again in vain on a message board? Ok, I am through venting for the evening. Let's get a win tomorrow.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 12:58 AM) Is it really second guessing when you call him out on it ahead of time? Tell me you don't call him on stuff all the time and it works out in his favor? I know I do all the time and he proves me wrong...

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 12:50 AM) It basically comes down to this. If you defend Ozzie for everything he does, then you have to reeeeeeally stretch to make an excuse here. If you are anybody else on the face of the Earth, you see he made a mistake mostly because he's pig-headed and severly dislikes Brian Anderson. Well this is how I see it...I don't like second-guessing every mistake that costs us a damned game, because it's really f'ing easy. There are too many great managers out there who have things backfire on them and lose games. I think people also have to remember Ozzie has to interact with these guys nearly 7 days a week. Everyone is human. He has to make decisions not only based on how they will affect a given situation or game, but also how they will affect a player's pysche in the long run. This is a hell of a lot more complicated than some like to believe. Anyone catch the end of the Indians/Angels game tonight? Mike Scoscia, a damned-fine manager, is trailing 7-6 in the 9th, with two outs. He pinch runs Erick Aybar for Casey Kotchman at first base. Aybar, whose successful stealing percentage in the minor leagues makes Podsednik look like a freaking LOCK, decides to send Aybar instead of allowing a 4-4 on the day Howie Kendrick a chance to knock him in with a double or more. Aybar gets gunned down at second, for the second time in this situation THIS WEEK, and the Angels lose, 7-6. He took the bat out of Kendrick's hands... Face it, every manager makes blunders....this was not Ozzie's best evening, but all things considered, there is plenty of blame to go around...

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 12:43 AM) I haven't seen Geren enough to judge how he'll be as a manager. All I know is he managed a terrific game tonight. Billy Beane hires managers that do what Billy Beane says, which is usually absolutely nothing other than make out the lineup card. Geren didn't do a damned thing tonight! He got lucky because Piazza roped a ball through a 10 foot hole on the left side of our infield, and then he knew enough to pinch hit Walker, an excellent professional hitter (and this is no f'ing mystery), who got a solid hit to left. If there is one person you cannot praise, it is an Oakland Athletics manager, because they do absolutely nothing. Beane knows it himself. Who else FIRES managers whose team made the playoffs THAT season? It's a mathematical system in Oakland, and the manager has nothing to do with it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 12:33 AM) You play for the win, not what might happen if you don't get three outs there. There's no excuses for what happened tonight. Garen kicked Ozzie's ass with the intentional walk to Pods and having Walker ph. Are you f'ing serious? Let me tell you something: An Oakland Athletics manager never kicks another manager's ass, EVER. They are all puppets of Billy Beane and do little or nothing more than filling out the damned lineup card. And they even catch s*** for that most of the time. Are you honestly telling me that pinch-hitting Todd Walker was some brilliant move? Give me a break. He pinch-hit a solid major league hitter off his bench in a crucial situation. Explain Monday night's game to us if Geren is such a brilliant field general out there compared to Ozzie... And as for our intentional walk...Travis Buck has been knocking the s*** out of the ball both games and Mark Ellis is batting .230 with a .270 OBP. He was the right hitter to go after.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 11, 2007 -> 12:32 AM) Nah, I'd rather try to have MacDougal for the entire season then have him go more than 1 inning in two straight games. The point isn't so much about MacDougal or tonight as it is Ozzie and Kenny's general theory on the closer. Whomever is shutting guys down the best at the moment should be pitching in the most important situations in the game- whether that be the 6th inning of one game or the 7th inning of another game- it doesn't mean that Jenks must come in to close out a game because the rules of baseball state he may earn a save on that appearance, or it is the 9th inning. That is backward thinking and it costs us.