iamshack

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 06:05 PM) Couldn't have said it better myself. Any Sox fan who witnessed the Jerry Manuel era (and even this past season) could tell you that a lineup of mashers with average or below-average starting pitching isn't going to translate into playoff succes. Crawford on the South Side would be great, but not at the expense of B-Mac. Wait a minute... I wasn't advocating that guys with no mlb experience will necessarily hit as projected. I was advocating that guys who have shown they can hit normally are more consistent than say, young pitchers. Crawford has proven he can be a star in this league. Brandon has not. To annoint him as some sort of messiah, as has been done by just as many here as we accused the Cubs fans of doing with Mark Prior, is making a lot of assumptions. I'd deal McCarthy in a heartbeat if it meant getting Crawford. As much as everyone here wants to talk about the mashers we had in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 that we didn't win with, the failure was not their fault. The failure was that we never developed any great pitching. Now I understand many of you think Brandon is the first time we have done that, he hasn't shown us that he can be a great young pitcher on any consistent basis. Remember in 2000 and 2001, when we had a top farm system that was stacked with arms? How many of them panned out? What happened to all of them? I'm not saying that we should assume all our young pitchers will fail. I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to assume that they won't. And if you get a chance to get a player like Carl Crawford for a guy who has done little to live up to his hype, then you have to make that deal IMO.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 05:25 PM) +1 As mediocre/bad as Pods is in the leadoff spot, the Sox are in need of starting pitching. Crawford is a luxury, not a necessity. Well, the one thing about young hitting is it tends to be more consistent than young pitching, and hitting as a whole tends to be more consistent from year to year than pitching. I like having the young pitching because of the price, but as we all saw last year, you never quite know what you are getting for sure from your pitching staff. I think the main consideration here is we know what we would get from Crawford, whereas we can't be certain what we'll get from McCarthy.

QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 01:39 PM) ESPN.com's winter meetings grid: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/n...tory?id=2684334 Gammons thinks Garland or Freddy might get traded. Jayson Stark thinks Freddy's going to the Angels. Jerry Crasnick has Freddy going to he Rangers or Padres. Phil Rogers thinks Joe Crede to the Angels. Gammons and Steve Phillips say, "Don't underestimate the White Sox." An actual complement from Joe Sheehan of BP (seems odd): Chicago Trading Joe Crede for Chone Figgins wouldn't help them very much, as Figgins just isn't that good a player. They need a leadoff hitter whose primary skill is getting on base, not stealing bases once he's on. Figgins will have a .350 OBP or so, and that's nothing special in the No. 1 slot. He'll also be getting expensive, and there are indications that he might be losing a little speed (triples down, GIDP rate up). If they feel they have to trade Crede -- they don't -- they can likely do better than this. GM Kenny Williams still has six starters for five spots, and Brandon McCarthy didn't take to the bullpen, so something has to happen to clear up the logjam. Mark Buerhle is a good bet to leave, although Freddy Garcia's name comes up much more often. In any case, remember that Williams is far, far removed from the Todd Ritchie deal, and very likely to win any trade he makes.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 01:14 PM) Technically thats not that awful of a trade. I'd like to get them to give us an additional arm but I really am a big McPherson fan. So if we really think Joe's gone its not that bad of a deal. I also like Dallas a lot more than I like Fields. I think it is a mistake if one of your concerns with Joe is injuries, and yet you trade for Dallas McPherson....

Some more rumor fodder, from Rotoworld, and it doesn't appear that anyone has a damned clue what KW has in mind: Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Javier Vazquez - The White Sox still appear likely to move a starting pitcher, opening up a rotation spot for Brandon McCarthy. There were reports a couple of weeks ago about Garland being on his way to Texas, but besides Jose Contreras, he should be considered the least likely candidate to go. The other common rumors have been Garcia to the Angels and Vazquez to the Mets. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Buehrle-to-St. Louis possibility pop up at some point. Possibility: Vazquez to Mets for Aaron Heilman and RHP Philip Humber Prediction: Stays Possibility: Buehrle to St. Louis for Chris Duncan and RHP Blake Hawksworth Prediction: Stays Possibility: Garcia, Brian Anderson and RHP Lance Broadway to Toronto for Vernon WellsPossibility: Garcia and Jerry Owens to Seattle for C Jeff Clement and George Sherrill Prediction: Goes Vernon Wells - If Alfonso Soriano is worth $138 million, Wells should receive a deal in excess of $150 million when he becomes a free agent next winter. He'll be two years younger than Soriano when he hit the market, and he has much more value on defense. Since the Blue Jays aren't likely to pay the price, Wells could be moved this winter. Texas is the top destination on everyone's mind, but because there's a good chance the Rangers can sign him as a free agent, it wouldn't make much sense to give up a king's ransom now. The White Sox should also be very interested, and the Angels might not rule him out even after overpaying for Gary Matthews Jr. Possibility: To Texas for Brad Wilkerson, LHP John Danks and RHP Wes Littleton Possibility: To Angels for Erick Aybar, Jeff Mathis and RHP Stephen Marek Prediction: Stays (until July) Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli - Crawford has been mentioned in connection with teams like the Angels and White Sox since the summer, but Baldelli looks like the better bet of the two to go now. The Rays wouldn't mind opening up an outfield spot for B.J. Upton, and either Crawford or Baldelli could bring the team the young pitching it needs. Some of the teams that could have checked into Baldelli's availability include the Marlins, Rangers, White Sox, Orioles, A's, Rockies, Brewers, Cubs and Red Sox. Possibility: Crawford to White Sox for Brandon McCarthy, Ryan Sweeney and David Aardsma Prediction: Stays Possibility: Baldelli to Florida for Scott Olsen and RHP Jose Garcia Possibility: Baldelli to Oakland for Joe Blanton and RHP Jason Windsor Possibility: Baldelli to Milwaukee for Jose Capellan, Carlos Villanueva and Greg Aquino Prediction: Goes Miguel Tejada - Since the Orioles are collecting veterans with the idea of being competitive in 2007, a trade seemed a lot more likely a year ago than it does now. Tejada only figures to move on if there's another star coming back in return. That said, if the Orioles could get the Angels to give up Casey Kotchman along with Ervin Santana and Erick Aybar, they really should go for it. Possibility: To White Sox for Jon Garland, Josh Fields and Brian Anderson Prediction: Stays Possibility: Figgins and Dallas McPherson to White Sox for Joe Crede

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 12:12 PM) He really doesnt have any. I agree, I think Ross could be Sean Casey with more speed, but at this point, he isnt even on anyone's radar for a bench player. I'll bet that GM's are looking a little deeper this year in regards to who's available and for what price. Many teams have refused to get sucked into the FA frenzy, and are looking at options they might have overlooked or ignored previously. While Gload certainly isn't going to be a main piece in any deal, I would be surprised if he wouldn't be a valuable piece to supplement an already-discussed deal to perhaps push it over the top. Additionally, this is from ESPN.com, from Jayson Stark: 12:50 p.m., from Jayson Stark • There were reports out of Chicago today that the White Sox were again looking into trading for Alex Rodriguez. But according to an official of one team that has inquired about A-Rod's status recently, those reports are just "the same old bull. A-Rod isn't going anwhere."

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Gload has no trade value, so not really. I do not think we match up that well, in this trade, considering A-rod is one of the best in the game, has to waive his no trade, and had a pretty large spat with our manager last season. This is NYC media fodder, and thats that. While Gload doesn't have a lot of trade value, I think it is flat-out wrong to state that he doesn't have any trade value. I think a player who has shown he can hit .300 in the past with a 1-year deal making $600k has some value in this market. I think given the PT, Ross Gload could put up David Dellucci numbers, and he is making about 5x what Ross just signed for.

QUOTE(Tannerfan @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) According to a friend of mine whose a big Yankee fan, the rumors that come out of The NY Daily News are almost always wrong. They tend to make this stuff up to get attention, as they compete with The NY Post which is a horrible newspaper (think Fox News in print); but has a great sports section. If the rumor is out of The Post, there's a chance it's true. From The Daily News... not so much. By the way there is no follow up to this rumor in The Daily News today, which tells me it is nonsense. Of course it is just blind speculation....the Yankees have been uncharacteristically quiet this offseason, and they need to sell newspapers...

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 07:39 AM) I am reading this a little differently than you guys. There is a BIG "OR" in the middle of that opt out clause. As long as he is making at least $1,000,000 per year more than anyone else, he CANNOT opt out. For the near future, I don't see anyone who is going to be making $26 million/yr plus, so Arod isn't going anywhere. This is an interesting question. I think it would be fairly dangerous to ARod's already somewhat-shaky public image to opt out of that deal and demand an even more lucrative one. If he were to be traded, that would be his fourth team, and the second time he has been traded. I'm not sure I remember another player who was considered to be the best player in his sport to play for so many different teams. To then opt out of that deal, with the intentions of taking a deal from the highest bidder, which would be his fifth team, most likely, seems like he would really be walking on thin ice. I would think that were he traded to the White Sox, a team with as good a chance to win a WS as any, one in a large market, yet without the insanely-rabid fans of New York or Boston, he would be fairly content. Perhaps he would ask for a contract extension, but to opt-out would probably not sit well with most of the baseball public. This is notwithstanding the NTC he has as a 10/5 guy, but I imagine he would waive that were the Yankees to tell him they had a deal in the works with the White Sox.

QUOTE(Drew @ Dec 2, 2006 -> 01:25 AM) I would have put Freddy's at "The $20 Sack Pyramid" by Dr. Dre. Which team would be Borat's song? Throw the *** down the well....so my country can be free....

QUOTE(soxfan3530 @ Nov 30, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) i dont really want to read through the last twenty pages so if someone could help me out. has there been any news with this trade sine the report that the two teams had had discussions. if someone could give me a update it would be greatly appreciated. thanks No, nothing further. Just recognition of the rumors in other publications.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 30, 2006 -> 12:27 PM) I could be wrong, but Baseball Reference tells me he has played 1 game in CF. 1 I seem to recall him playing some games in right field though?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 04:55 PM) I disagree, I believe he is the best. There is no doubt in my mind he should have won the GG this year in the AL, and watching him in person, he makes everything look very easy. If we deal him, you guys will see what it is like to be spoiled by a GG player at the hot corner. I don't necessarily disagree with you. Hell, I would like to believe you are correct. But there are certainly some other guy who are fairly comparable with Joe defensively. Chavez, Blalock, Inge come to mind... QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 05:07 PM) I still think if the sox somehow get Santana they'll move him in a package for Crawford. Was it Levine who mentioned the sox were in talks with the Drays? He didn't necessarily say they were in "talks." Implied more so that Crawford was KW's number 1 offseason target.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 04:41 PM) His K rate has decreased as well, so what does that mean? Regardless of all the offensive stats you can put up, he is the best defensive 3B in the MLB, and with some power and a good avg, it makes him valuable. Not so sure if he is the best. Maybe one of them...

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 09:18 AM) Give me Ichiro! OK, seriously, Jeremy Reed would be nice..... HAHAHAHA! I cant keep a straight face! Honestly, who would we want from Seattle. I dont know who might be available. Adam Jones? Other than that, I couldn't tell you... How about Garcia and the Birmingham Barons for Felix?

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 02:38 PM) Crede Garcia and Tracey No chance the Angels give up both Santana and Adenhart in one deal....

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 02:14 PM) I waited for hours in the cold for a 37 inch LCD for $499. It on my wall, and making fun of him here > getting kicked out of line and the satisfaction of beating the flub fan. Stoneman will have no problem ditching Figgins over Aybar. Stoneman loves his prospects and has a hard time getting rid of them. He has the anti-KW philosophy on it. Jeesh, where did you get the lcd? As for Stoneman, I am confused. I understand he loves his prospects. So what you mean is he would have no problem dealing Figgins and keeping Aybar, correct? So I guess the answer is you believe it would be easier and cheaper to acquire Santana and Figgins rather than Santana and Aybar?

I wonder what it would take from our side to make this happen? I wonder if they would consider dealing Santana/Aybar rarther than Figgins? Or if something such as Crede/Garcia/Phillips for Santana/Figgins?

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:39 PM) summary of angels beat writer on with murph... it has def. been discussed according to the beat writer....sox are def. willing to deal crede, but they dont need to.....sox also asked for santana, but angels said they need pitching to get pitching, so talks extended to garcia......he also said those wouldnt be the only 4 players involved, kinda sounded like prospects would be involved one way or the otehr........says figgins is best suit at 2b, but has a good arm and can play OF well enough for a guy who hasnt played there much...says the angels like him at 3b, and will play him there everday if they cant get a power guy.......says hes not a bonafide leadoff guy based on last year, but based on the year before he was....about santana he says.....angels have put high price on santana, but will trade bc everyone wants young pitching.... says both GMs arent content with the trade as it is, so something else will have to be in place....says the name have been discussed for a couple of months.... Thanks for the summary, guys.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:27 PM) How long does it take for a position player to learn how to hit in the majors? Their guys are good, and they have great prospects, but how old is Vlad and Garrett. What is their window. The angels rely on getting a lead, getting to their bullpen and getting the game over. Take a good look at their lineup, and tell me what they are missing. That would be real protection for Vlad. To beat the Angels, you basically pitch around Vlad. Garret provides some of that, but he is hurt a lot, and is older. They could go right with vlad, left with garret, and then right with Crede. Thats not a bad 3-4-5 punch right there. They can score more for their good pitching staff. They are offensive starved and need that more than anything. I love Joe, I do...but if this were you, would you deal Santana for a guy like Crede, if your primary need was offense? I sure wouldn't. It just seems like they are always willing to discuss Santana, yet they shoot everyone down when the positional prospects are mentioned....just seems curious to me, that's all I'm saying.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:20 PM) Or other teams are extremely interested in him? You don't think teams are extremely interested in Weaver too? Or Lackey? But how much do you hear their names? I'm just saying that Santana was reportedly offered for Tejada and Crawford, yet there have been no deals there.... I understand your point, I do...it just seems like they certainly don't squash out the rumors about Santana the way that KW squashed the ones regarding McCarthy. It just gives me a feeling that the Angels know something about him that the rest of us don't...

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:17 PM) Take a good look at the Angels minor league system and then rethink it. They won 89 games last year in a down year where they were shifting young players and playing them quite a bit. I understand that. And I realize they have Nick Adenhart ready to step in in a few years as well. But it seems to me that they have had an awful lot of position players who were highly touted prospects begin to fade. McPherson, Kotchman, and now Wood struck out 150 times last year and they think he isn't as far along as they thought he was. I don't know, it just seems like they should be dealing some of their position prospects if they really need a bat this badly, not Ervin Santana...

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) Because the Angels have other pieces they can put into holes like those they'd create by this deal, and the Angels have different needs from the White Sox. It bothers me that Santana's name comes up so often...It seems they are down on him for some reason or another.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:14 PM) Santana would be locked up a minimum for the next several years. I dont know if people realize how young he really is. Not to mention he probably would have the 2nd best stuff out of anyone in our rotation. He is sure to improve. With BMAC and Santana you have 2 good top of the rotation guys sewn up for the next several years at a minimum price. That my friends is how great teams maintain their greatness. Yeah, I posted that in the MLB forum earlier. Well why don't the Angels maintain their greatness that way then?

What time is Murph having this beat reporter on at?