iamshack

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:49 PM) I'm not your "pal." And look how awesome Trachsel and his aging arm are doing. And look at the big bucks that the Mets are paying Trachsel and El Duque. :rolly The comparison of a (supposedly) power pitcher like Freddy to a finesse guy like Glavine and a power-pitcher-turned-finesse-guy-years-ago like Pedro is equally stupid. Oh, and Freddy throws about two or three 94 mph pitches in a start... the rest are in the upper 80s. Nice try, though. You didn't ace logic class, did you? You implied the Mets don't like "aging" arms with large contracts. And if you don't think guys can have "aging arms" and have rough years and bounce back, See: Tom Glavine, first year with Mets. There was never any comparison to Pedro or Glavine's stuff, or their style of pitching. The point was made to disprove your premise that the Mets had no interest in veteran pitchers.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) He threw 94 a few times later in the game after giving up 6 runs on 86 MPH fastballs for a majority of Sunday. I'm not sure which would be worse, if he actually has the ability to throw 94 but chooses not to or if all of a sudden at the end of some random game he throws 94 a few times but still can't throw anything but still sits at 86. Also, this wasn't the first time that he's popped it in the 90's this year, it seems just at random times throughout the season he's decided to bring the good heat but at all other times he's sitting in the mid to upper 80's. I really don't think Sunday was a sign of anything. I wasn't arguing that he was "back." I was arguing that he isn't throwing strictly 88 anymore.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:37 PM) The key word here is "improve." Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel and that's why Minaya isn't going to trade for him... especially if he's obligated to pay him another $13-$14 million. How the hell is Freddy Garcia going to help the Mets win? Nobody with an 88 mph fastball and little command of his offspeed pitches is going to help the Mets in the playoffs. Mets fans should thank God that you're not their GM. I could see the Mets trading for somebody like Vazquez, who can still throw heat and has a good curve and slider to accompany it. Command can be improved, but an aging, worn-out arm can't. That's a brilliant idea. Trade for the guy with the mental issues and bring him to New York. That's been tried already, pal. BTW, Freddy was throwing 94 on Sunday. And we know how those Mets are afraid to trade for "aging" arms since they stay away from those guys (Pedro, El Duque, Glavine, Trachsel). QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:38 PM) Yes. Right now, Trachsel is better than Garcia. I used the exact same stats that you did. How on earth can you claim your post makes sense, and that mine dies not? That's a steaming crock. Trachsel of the worse WHIP, worse OBA, worse k rate, worse bb rate, and worse quality starts? Interesting...

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:31 PM) My point is that your post citing the two pitchers' historical records as a valid indicator of their curretn ability/value is just plain dumb. YOUR post had no point, unless your point is that Freddy is an upgrade NOW because he was better IN THE PAST. Hint: When you use satire, you are supposed to somehow parallel what you are satirizing. Your post did not even come close to doing so. Are you suggesting that Trachsel is better than Garcia right now, if EVER?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:28 PM) If he is, that another reason that Minaya won't want him. The Mets are trying to win NOW, not next season. They're not. You act like quality starters grow on trees or something. Teams wanted Schmidt last year. That is the point. Teams are desperate to improve their pitching at the break. How the hell are the Mets supposed to win now, if they don't trade for any starting pitching? That rotation they have now will not get them out of the NL come October.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:24 PM) Schmidt was injured last season. Freddy doesn't have an injury to excuse his 5 mph drop-off in velocity. The comparison is ridiculous anyway. The Mets need a quality starter RIGHT NOW. They can't wait for Freddy's velocity to return next season... and there's no evidence that it will. How do you know that Freddy isn't injured? Then answer this question for me....WHERE ON EARTH ARE THEY GETTING THAT QUALITY STARTER without giving up Milledge AND/OR Pelfrey? QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) Greg Maddux is 325-199 with a 3.07 ERA for his career. Jose Contreras is 44-19 with a 4.11 ERA for his career. I wonder if they'd swap with us if we threw in Fields? What the hell is the point of this post? I know you are being sarcastic, but I have no f'ing clue what you are even suggesting. Greg Maddux has been a hell of a pitcher in this league, dude. And Jose has been as well. WTF are you even saying?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:11 PM) Even if the money isn't an issue, Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel. If Minaya has to give up something in return, he's going to do it for a guy that's going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve his staff. Freddy isn't that guy. If I were Minaya, I'd be talking to SF about Schmidt. And what would you have said about Jason Schmidt last year, when he was struggling badly, his velocity was down, and he was in a contract situation very similar to Garcia's now? Seems to me that I recall a certain GM from Chicago looking at him... QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:11 PM) Even if the money isn't an issue, Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel. If Minaya has to give up something in return, he's going to do it for a guy that's going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve his staff. Freddy isn't that guy. If I were Minaya, I'd be talking to SF about Schmidt. And I don't know where you get off saying Garcia isn't a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over Steve Trachsel. Trachsel is 128-139 in his career with a 4.24 ERA, all in the National League, save for the year 2000. Meanwhile, Freddy is 109-68 in his career with a 4.02 ERA, all in the American League. Not a significant upgrade my ass.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 05:54 PM) Even if Freddy is a slight improvement of Trachsel, the prospects to get Freddy plus the $14 million or so left on his contract would preclude the deal. If Minaya has to give up something to get a better pitcher, he's going to need a significant improvement over Trachsel in return, not just a minor one. The money is not even an issue. Their new television station has amazing ratings right now, and their attendance is outstanding. Michael Wilpon is not exactly known the be stingy either. They can take on Freddy's salary without blinkiing at this point. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 05:58 PM) Before last season, most of the White Sox staff had very little to no post season experience. Good pitchers, especially power pitchers do well in the postseason. Freddy is not a very good pitcher right now, and no way you can say he's a power pitcher at this point. You are saying Hernandez was good in 97 and 2000 but horrible in 2002. Freddy was good in the 2005 post season, but easily could be horrible in 2006. I would love for the Sox to trade Freddy, I just don't think they could get the package a lot here seem to think. I really doubt Minaya would weaken his bullpen too much to acquire a guy who is not that big of upgrade, and may not even be an upgrade. The difference is we had two starters who were young all-stars last season, and Freddy, who had postseason experience, and Jose who won his last 9 games heading into the postseason. The rotation was also leading the league in wins, ERA, and quality starts for nearly the entire year. Even so, Kenny STILL had a deal in place to get Burnett, but he would not agree to an extension here in Chicago. DA, picture yourself as a Mets fan right now. You have an amazing lineup. Your pitching staff is older than s***, injured, and only two of them are good for much of anything. Would you give a flying f*%$ if Minyana went and dealt a middle reliever who the organization refuses to allow to start because he doesn't have enough plus pitches, and a guy coming off TJ surgery for a proven postseason commodity? I can't speak for you, of course. But if it were me, I would be screaming for Minyana to do it in heartbeat.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 05:29 PM) That 2.43 ERA covers his 1.48 WHIP very nicely. I don't want another 2005 Marte, and Pittsburgh might actually ask for the farm Funny that you say this, because I just read today that scouts say if you put him up next to Marte, they look amazingly similar- except that Gonzalez gets the results, and Marte does not.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 04:48 PM) We've seen Freddy against the Red Sox and Yankees. I wouldn't mind seeing him against the White Sox. I think its not a lock that Freddy outperforms Trachsel, so I see absolutely no reason Minaya would want to overpay for mediocrity. When you say "mediocrity" you have to keep in mind what else is available right now. The only really solid pitcher that has been rumored to be available at all is Zito, and I doubt that at this point since Harden is down and Loaiza has been bad. The Mets have a comfortable lead in the East. They will probably win the East, barring some huge run by the Braves. I don't know about you, but from what I understand, New Yorkers don't strike me as the type to be satisfied with postseason "appearances." I'm not advocating Minyana do anything ridiculously stupid. With this, he keeps Milledge and Pelfrey, and acquires a pitcher who has won big games before and seemingly would not shrivel under the NY spotlight. He has a 6-2 postseason record with a 3.31 ERA. Livan has a postseason record of 6-2 with a 3.99 ERA, but all the good results came 97' and 2000'. In 2002, he was horrible. Trachsel has no postseason experience.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 04:00 PM) Trachsel has won his last 7 starts. Why would Minaya overpay for a guy not pitching nearly as well to bump him back in their playoff rotation? Look more closely at Trachsel's numbers and tell me if you expect him to continue winning.... If you are all going to rip on Freddy with his numbers, check out Trachsel's in a pitcher's park in the national league. He's doing it with smoke and mirrors right now. You want to put HIM up against the White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox, or Tigers?

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 03:31 PM) I would think if you could get Heilman and Humber from the Mets for Garcia that Santa Claus was involved and we were very good boys and girls. Well, We have been very good... But honestly, it isn't that much of a stretch. Omar, if he doesn't want to pitch Steve Trachsel as his third pitcher in the postseason, has to go get someone. The options may very well only be Garcia, Livan Hernandez, Rodrigo Lopez, or Mark Redman. Livan is probably the only other guy of those you might trust in the postseason and he is having an even worse year than Freddy. Additionally, Bowden is said to be demanding Pelphrey or Milledge for him. Faced with that decision, dealing Heilman and Humber seems to be the better alternative. Not saying it would happen. Just saying I think it could.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 03:22 PM) And given that Santana has produced more in the majors than B-Mac and is equally cheap, the D-Rays would definitely want another "top-flight" prospect to go along with him... and probably a second prospect as well (or possibly Anderson). Given that our only "top-flight" prospect is Fields, he'd definitely be involved in the deal. And since there's almost no way in hell that KW would trade B-Mac, the Crawford deal ain't gonna happen. IMHO, I don't think it is imperative that they get Brandon though. I would think if you could get Heilman and Humber from the Mets for Garcia, they would take them both, along with Fields, plus another one of our pitching prospects (Phillips?). Obviously, this probably won't happen. But not because it would require BMac.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:44 PM) (1) B-Mac would be needed to acquire Crawford. TB will settle for nothing less than a young, cheap pitcher with a tremendous amount of upside. The fact that they rejected Ervin Santana speaks volumes. Since our pitching prospects aren't exactly stellar right now, Fields would probably have to be included in the deal as well. (2) Garcia is worth crap at this point and we're not going to get any decent prospects for him. And we'd probably have to eat part of his salary as well. They didn't reject Santana because he wasn't good enough. They rejected the deal because they wanted a top-flight prospect to go along with it, and Stoneman wouldn't do it.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:01 PM) Kenny's not going to trade BMac, Anderson, Fields, and a couple of other minor-leaguers for another outfielder when our current problem is pitching, not run production or defense. I never advocated dealing BMac or Anderson. I said deal Garcia for young pitching, and combine that with Fields (who we wouldn't need were we to acquire Crawford), and possibly one of our better pitching prospects (not BMac), and I think you have them listening closely.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) No kidding. If the D-Rays considered the Angels' offer of Ervin Santana (young, cheap, 11-3, 3.88 ERA, 1.16 WHIP) a "low-ball" offer, they're obviously not going to move him unless another GM is willing to over-pay. So, no, KW isn't going to trade for Crawford. Yeah, because we all know Kenny refuses to "overpay."

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:35 PM) Crawford's name has been brought up for a while now, so yes, some people have thought that he's been available. We still don't actually know if TB is shopping him or not. As far as Thome, he was one of the hottest rumors last offseason, I don't think it was really a shock to anyone to see Jim get traded here. Aaron for Jim was talked about a ton. It was? I must have been in Bears mode by then, because it came out of nowhere to me. I remember thinking Aarom may be gone maybe 3 days before it happened....not much before that. As for CC's availability, it was rumored that he was available about a month ago, in which time Kenny has not said a word about anyone. And I really don't think he would. If CC does actually become available this offseason, I wouldn't put it anywhere near out of the realm of possibilities that he would become our left fielder. I guess I would just put it this way- if he were to be traded, I would think we would be 1 of 5 teams who would have the best shot at acquiring him. Did we know Kenny had a deal to get Delgado in 04'? He hadn't said a word about him.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:28 PM) All of Rob Mackowiak, Alex Cintron and Javy Vazquez' names were mentioned by him in the past and became "his guys". If KW really wants someone he tends to make it very appearant, I don't think I've ever even heard him mention Carl Crawford. Did anyone think Crawford might be available before now? Besides, KW has been decidedly silent about alot of things he likes since the blown Omar Vizquel deal... Did you see Thome coming? I don't think he had to worry so much about keeping Mack and Cintron on the down low....

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) Has he ever said Crawford is "his man"? Knowing him, do you honestly think he would??? I think there is a fair amount of history that shows KW sticks his nose in everything and anything, especially when a all-star or name player becomes available via trade: Tejada, Burnett, Randy Johnson, Freddy Garcia, Javy Vazquez, etc., etc.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:01 PM) I think its pretty safe to assume Carl Crawford will not be in a White Sox uniform in 2006, and most likely not ever. I disagree. If he truly is "available," whether it is during the season, or in the coming offseason, there is no one I would give better odds of landing him than Kenny. The Angels are in better position, but Stoneman is conservative. Meanwhile, Kenny, more than not, finds a way to get his man.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 12:01 PM) If this is the deal they have to make to get Abreu then let them do it. Look at Thames numbers nad how Miner has pitched. They would be giving up a guy hitting .300 with 19 homers for a guy hitting .283 with half as many homers. Proposed trade: Thames and Miner for Abreu I just want them to do it so they are stuck with that huge option in 08'. They would have about $37 million tied up in two old OF's by that time in Maggs and Abreu.

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 11:37 AM) I'd demand a Bailey and a Zumaya (or something along those lines). I'd demand an Ervin Santana, a Brandon Wood, and a bust MacPherson for kicks.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 10:44 AM) Well, I will take your word for it, since I havent been at the bargaining table like yourself. If nobody wants 4 or 5 of our top minor leaugers, thats their fault. Well, I should have qualified my statement, Rock. Most media reports have stated that the asking price for Carl Crawford is a a frontline starter and a midline starter. Obviously, in TB's situation, you can pretty much assume that means ones that don't make any money. If you were the TB FO, would you even think about dealing Crawford for 4-5 top prospects of a team's marginal farm system?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 10:20 AM) No, but I would trade Liotta, Broadway, Lummy, etc etc etc. I would package every top minor leaguer they would want, because Crawford is better than all of them. An OF will Crawford in it would make it better defensively and offensively. f*** prospects. Unfortunately, they don't want just top minor leaguers. They want a "major league ready" starter, ala Brandon, Ervin Santana, type. That's why I suggested dealing Garcia to the Mets for Heilman and Humber, and adding Fields and a few other pieces to that.

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 04:57 PM) Sure. Jump on the Pods lovewagon and give credit to him for the proficiency of the three hitters behind him. I know this isn't very easy quantifiable, so god forbid we actually make an argument that it might exist, but did you ever stop to consider the possibility that maybe Scott's speed on the basepaths distracts the pitcher or helps the hitter at the plate while he is on base?