iamshack

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 05:49 PM) He was still a big time prospect, one of the biggest in baseball... You're right. I misspoke. One of the few really good things Steve Phillips did.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 05:41 PM) He will stay in Phili... But it seems like we should get more back for Vazquez than just Gordon. Vazquez is not being dealt this season.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 05:07 PM) Oh yes he was. No one knew he would be THIS good, THIS fast. He was the 38th overall pick.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:39 PM) ah and what about BA's .190 average? and the 4 walks are in what, 86 at bats? BA's had 182... How many errors does BA have? And Milledge? hmm...

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:38 PM) Four. Which one does he need to borrow?

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:35 PM) like i've said before - bro's a mets fan, i hear almost as much about them as i do about the sox (hyperbole) milledge is a five tool guy who's ranked #13 overall right now as far as prospects go. sure he wasnt amazing in his time up this year - but 12 ribbies, 3 homers, 2 doubles and 3 triples just goes to show what he is capable of. (and in any case even his .233 average is better than BA's) How many tools does Anderson have again?

Comparing Liriano to ANYONE else makes a lot of sense.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:27 PM) He walked 4 times in 94 plate appearances and displayed suspect defense in the outfield, I guess the 3 HRs in 85 ABs makes him better than Anderson. Maybe it's the sweet hair.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:19 PM) sanchez is stud, and, granted milledge may not help much this year. he's s***LOADS better than BA right NOW and has the potential to be a perennial all-star Milledge of the .283 OBP? s***loads, huh?

The measure of a "quality" start IMHO should be 7 IP/2 ER or less. I believe under that definition, Buehrle has 10.

Funny, on another board I just saw a Mariners' fan propose this deal: Garcia for Reed, Soriano, and Everett.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:44 PM) Ok, here's your question then, if Harden was injured but the A's were still at the back of that division, do you think they'd trade Zito? I'd say yes. If Harden was healthy, and the A's were still leading that division, do you think they'd trade Zito? I'd say no. Well, they would have to be pretty bad to be out of contention in that division, so it's hard to say. But if Harden was healthy, and the Mets offered Milledge and Heilman for Zito, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that BB would make that deal. BTW, anyone think Kenny would put the word out on Garcia to see if there are any offers out there where he could acquire the pieces for an eventual Carl Crawford deal? We all know Tampa can't take on market-priced starters, but they very well would take on younger pieces. I know it is a stretch, but I guess I can dream... :sleep

I believe the real reason Zito is not being dealt right now is Harden's injury, not the fact that the A's are once again leading the division.

QUOTE(maggliopipe @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:08 PM) I don't get the people saying 'but what if there's an injury? what then?'.... Come on, the plan all along for 2007 (as stated by KW) is that BMac WILL be in the rotation. That means whether it happens now or in the offseason, one of the other 5 will be gone and we're going to lose our 6th starter insurance. It's incomparable what you could get for Garcia now versus what you could get for him in the offseason, so you deal him now. Now. No, now. And f*** Lastings. Whoever said NYY, NYM, BOS prospects have a history of being overrated is spot on. Of course there are recent exceptions with the Mets, but they've had too many prospects pan out in a row. The funny thing is is that Wright wasn't even that huge of a prospect.

It was Duquette, not Phillips. Phillips was gone by then. Minyana does have a reputation of shredding farm systems though, as he did in Montreal before leaving there for NY.

For one thing, they are signed another year. But I smell what you are stepping in.

Between what Mark Gonzalez is saying, Ken Rosenthal is saying, and now Buster Olney is saying, Vazquez is not being shopped, but Garcia definetely is.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:16 AM) Kenny has said that McCarthy will be in the rotation in 07. Someone will be gone if not at the deadline than at the end of the year, I think most of us believe that is the case. I think since so many teams will be desperate for pitching at the deadline, that the deadline is the time to do it instead of the offseason. I also feel like Brandon will be able to do a better job than Garcia in the rotation, and that a guy like heilman or sanchez would be every bit as good as bmac was in the pen...so no real loss. Yeah, I don't doubt that Brandon will be there, I just doubt whether a reliever is enough to get it done right now, especially considering the Mets are a possible WS foe. I agree with the Rosenthal suggestion, I suppose. I could much more see something like Garcia to the Mets for a reliever and a prospect (Sanchez and Humber) maybe? I don't know. Omar probably doesn't know whether or not to pay Peter or Paul right now, considering the situation of his rotation and farm system right now.

Well, I am not certain about what these guys said, but this does seem to pretty much be the consensus opinion around the nation, among baseball fans. Apparently our feed is the one used the majority of the time on mlbn.com as well as on the extra innings package. I normally peruse the opposing team's message boards while we are playing them, and without fail, there sprouts up a thread about how horrible Hawk & the DJ are. They are often described as "the worst in the league, or if not, the second worst behind the YES network guys (especially Michael Kay). Thing is, I could give a s***. Hawk and DJ's broadcast is meant to appeal to the average White Sox fan, not some opposing team's out-of-market fans. I understand they are also on WGN, which is a national station, but Harry Caray's drunken unprofessionalism never seemed to draw the wrath and ire of the opposing fans as Hawk does. I imagine it has something to do with the recent success of the WS, as these complaints were less and less numerous a few years ago. Finally, Farmio has his silly stories he tells as well. While Hawk might be pleasuring himself during the game to the good ole' days with Yaz', Farmio never stops telling us that Brian Daubach likes strawberry ice cream, or that Jon Garland went to high school with Garrett Anderson (which is right by where he lives).

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:04 AM) Also, remember that one of the big reasons Kenny pulled the trigger for Javy is the fact that he was signed passed 06 and at the time we only had 3 starters including Mac signed for 07. With JC and Garland signing extensions it makes it much easier for Kenny to pull a trade with Javy and that might answer your question about why Kenny would go after Javy so hard and then trade him just a half a season later, iamshack. Rowand, I agree, having Garland and Jose signed really makes it easier to deal any of your starters. But Kenny has been drooling over Vazquez since 2003/2004. This is one of "his guys." I understand the $ situation, but this just doesn't seem to me to be something which would need to be addressed NOW. It seems like something that could be dealt with in the offseason, especially if the return on any deal right now is a reliever. Let me ask you this. With what Kenny dealt to acquire Thornton and Riske, do you honestly see him dealing an innings-eating starting pitcher with Javy's kind of stuff, for 1 reliever? Now? I just can't fathom that. I could understand a Freddy trade possibly, and maybe to the Mets, since I don't think that the organization would hang Freddy out to dry by sending him to some schlep team (considering what he did for the org and his ties to the org now), but still. Read every quote Kenny has made in the past year or so and tell me that you think he would deal one of our starters for a reliever right now.

I can't see Kenny risking getting burned in the WS by one of our former starters just for the sake of acquiring a reliever.

I am not sure whether the NY Daily News report is reporting what is truly the actual situation. I am not doubting the accuracy of what they were told (although they do make things up purely out of thin air), this certainly isn't like Kenny to be so open and honest about things. Secondly, this makes no sense whatsoever. Kenny was after Javy for years, and he pays a heavy price in El Duque, Vizcaino, and Chris Young, and now he is willing to give up on him after 17 starts for one top-notch reliever? I dunno, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Why make a rash decision like this when we are sitting pretty comfortably right now? We are not the Reds. Also, WS beat reporter had this to say this morning: "I don't think it's out of reach to see either Jon Garland or Vazquez move to the bullpen if there's an off-day and one of them gets skipped in the rotation. It could be cheaper than acquiring relief help. But my gut feeling is that Kenny Williams will make a deal. I can't see Javier Vazquez getting demoted to the bullpen on a permanent basis. Kenny likes him too much. " This is just one of those things that doesn't smell right. I could understand Freddy, as his stuff has totally changed from last year to this year and he seems set on being an off-speed pitcher now, but Javy? Despite his struggles, I just can't see Kenny giving up on him unless he is part of something much bigger than a reliever. Especially considering the timing of Hermanson possibly coming back. And again, as for Vazquez's salary, he makes $11.5 million this season, and $12.5 million next season. The White Sox are on the hook for ALL of that, however, they did receive roughly $5 million from the DBacks to help defray his salary. Any trade of Vazquez puts the receiving team on the hook for his entire salary, not any reduced amount that other teams have transferred in the past.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 09:18 PM) The guy's a former first round pick, he's still real young, gets on base effectively, has a little speed, and can play all over the field. He'd be an excellent upgrade over Brian Anderson, even with this recent surge of his. Ugh. Did you read the post about his defense?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 09:46 PM) I understand that, and that is the point I was trying to make. Arizona didn't give the White Sox all of the money they were getting from the Yankees. But if Vazquez was traded, other teams would probably expect the White Sox to at least kick in the same amount of money they are receiving from Arizona. If KW moves a starter, and who could blame him if Gary Majewski and a couple of other bums are worth Lopez and Kearns, its going to be with an NL club or an AL club with no chance IMO. DA, I am sorry, I was just trying to add to what you were saying in response to Witesoxfan, who not only made his mistaken assumption in this thread, but in the one entitled "Vazquez" as well. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 09:37 PM) i thought they were both bs. but thats just me. edited my previous post, i guess some of you guys think they were both fair. I think this latest one is garbage. It says absolutely nothing. From what I understand, as well as what I have observed, Bobby has been on his best behavior for the tremendous amount of success which he has achieved in just the past 12 months or so. The real story now is not to drag his checkered past up again without reason, but rather to celebrate that he has overcome it. The article which portrayed that some 6 months ago was a much more appropriate piece than this last one.