iamshack

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:18 PM) This is about as blatant as misinterpretation of stats as there is out there. While you might find a counting stat that puts Swarzak in the top 10, he is NOT a top 10 reliever in this league. There is no way on this earth that Anthony Swarzak is one of the 10 best relievers in the AL in reality. His xFIP is 59 out of 163 qualified relief pitchers. His ERA is 31st out of 163. His k/9 is 76th of 163. His LOB% is 52nd, or one slot better than Chris Beck. His advanced numbers all scream regression to mean, for a guy who is having a career year. Talk about misinterpretation of stats. Where does he rank in era and fip for relief pitchers that have thrown more than 30 innings this year?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:16 PM) Swarzak is a 31 year old, free agent to be reliever with a bad track record. He also happens to be one of the best relievers in baseball for 4 months. The point is, there's a lot of positive and a lot of negative when it comes to him and because of that it was always going to be difficult for anyone to get a decent gauge of his actual trade value. As others have said, moving him needed to be done and Rick thought that was the best deal out there. Who knows what Cordell will become but calling people sheep because they're happy with the return is a tad bit excessive. From what we've read, all relievers have sketchy track records. You can't have it every which way. Robertson had a fantastic track record and he was worth s*** because he made some money. Kahnle had control, but his control was worthless because relievers are erratic and he will eventually turn into suck, no doubt, anyway. Swarzak has no money committed to him, has been dominant, has outstanding stuff, but is worth nothing because he has no control. These are all horses*** justifications for getting s*** value out of our relievers a week ahead of the deadline.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:14 PM) Was a top 10 reliever will be a top 10 reliever. Without a track record, elite stuff (like Kahnle), or multiple years of control, no was going to pay a big price for him, especially not in this market. He has pretty good stuff. Don't diminish the stuff he's developed.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:10 PM) But that's the point, it's a huge buyer's market for relievers. I 100% get your view on dealing Kahnle now, when the market dynamics weren't in our favor and he had multiple years of control left. But we pretty much had to move Swarzak now and I'm going to assume Hahn took the best offer he got. I really don't think Hahn would pass on more impactful talent for a guy with a 4th OF ceiling in the first year of a rebuild. They probably really like this kid and think he has a chance to be an everyday player. It can't be a huge buyer's market for both RP and bats, with all these teams in contention in the AL. There is this notion that relievers are so incredibly erratic and inconsistent, and yet, a guy like Swarzak, who has been on fire, offers very little in terms of $ commitments is worth nothing. It's just nonsense. It can't be both at the same time. We moved this guy on the 25th. Why not just wait? What is the downside? You can't get Ryan Cordell on the 30th?

Imagine saying "the White Sox will sign a guy to a minor league contract who will go on to be a top 10 reliever in the league. They will then trade him for Ryan Cordell." Oh, how glorious!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:57 PM) Cmon man. Most here have barely heard of him until tonight. Now he is something. He had a career .299 OBP in AA. He puts up good numbers in Colorado Springs, but so does most of the team. If he truly is a 4th OF floor, think how great the Brewers are going to be if he is their #17 prospect. He seems to have decent tools but nothing outstanding. Maybe he becomes something, but chances are in 2 years we all forget he even exists. Probably will forget who Swarzak is too, but what amazes me is you can get hot relievers for next to nothing during the season. Makes Dombrowski's failure in Detroit more unforgivable to Tiger fans. Bats are worth nothing, relief pitchers are worth nothing, and like 3 SP have been traded. The whole league has gone bats*** crazy about prospects. It a joke.

QUOTE (striker @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:51 PM) Economics 101 - Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Economics 201 - the mlb trade market is not an efficient market. See my primer posted two weeks ago and learn.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:50 PM) What exactly were you expecting? Do you like the OF prospect the Mariners gave up better than Cordell? Let me ask you this... If we were a contending team, and we needed an arm in the bullpen, and we went out and traded Adam Engel for a guy that has performed as well as Swarzak has, how would you feel? Soxtalk would have been f***ing ecstatic about such a deal.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:43 PM) I don't think anyone was expecting much for Swarzak though. A guy in a system's 8 - 15 range was what I was hoping for and that's what we got. Given the strength of the Brewers system, I would argue that Cordell is a top 200 prospect. Their number 5 prospect, Keston Hiura (just drafted), is mlbpipeline's #97 prospect in baseball. By their estimation, I would bet he is far worse than #200. I'm tired of arguing, but a guy that is 7th in WAR for relievers at the end of July should get better than this. Case closed.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:33 PM) You are one of my fav posters but you're getting bent out of shape for nothing. Swarzak pitched great and the Sox are fortunate that he did . Everyone else has pointed out the reasons so no need for me to rehash it. As far as the Sox having a multitude of guys like Cordell I just don't think it's true. There is currently no one in the OF in the upper levels who has good pop and can actually field and also has speed.That's what separates him from guys like Engel, May, Tilson, Leury who alll have speed but can't hit for power. The Sox have been targeting power hitters and OBP in the last 2 drafts. If I use my rose colored glasses and ignore that most of his power came playing in Colorado he still has more power than the current crop of upper level minor league OF's plus has the same if not better tools than the aforementioned players all vying for OF spots. I get bent out of shape because people are sheep. They go on record as saying they expect X return for a player, and then they justify Y * s*** return with a bunch of nonsensical justifications. I may certainly be wrong, but at least I have a mind of my own.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:26 PM) Shack did you expect a rebuild to be different? Swarzak off all people in the rebuild that has put you over the ledge? Cmon dude, not now. I didn't expect to trade two of the better relievers in baseball for s***, no.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:24 PM) Time to step away for the evening.... Fair enough.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:18 PM) How is there not a need for a CF? I know we all sit here and plug Robert in as our long-term CF, but the reality he may not stick there. Might as well use the next two years and see if someone goes out and runs away with the job. And I'd rather have multiple options than automatically give Engel 1,200 plate appearances. I don't know, I just find this kid super interesting. Pretty good tools across the board, pretty decent track record of hitting throughout the minors, and has consistently been just outside the top 10 in two very deep systems. The fact the Brewers are loaded with OF talent made him expendable and those are the types of guys you target with a piece like Swarzak. This kid has the chance to be a legit everyday CF and pretty much right away. What more could you ask for a rental reliever with a very limited track record in a buyer's market? I am thinking more of Adam Engel and Leury Garcia and the guys we already have that seem to be doing the exact same thing that we "hope" this kid can do.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 07:14 PM) You get a guy who is 100% cinch to make the major leagues, has a very good chance to be at worst a nice bench piece, but has realistic upside as a good everyday player. What the hell is the problem? You just traded Anthony Swarzak! The skeptics of these reliever deals always seem to think about the what if's based on the reliever pitching that good indefinitely into the future. Swarzak was 2 or 3 s***ty outings from losing all of his value. You have to get something for him and we got a real piece back for him. Stop acting like there is some infinite number of baseball lineups the White Sox need to fill. They have one team. We have an actual mlb organization, you know. We have lots of guys that "can make the major leagues." Do you know that Anthony Swarzak was "in" the major leagues already? And dominating? But we'll keep trading good "actual" major league players for guys that can "make" the major leagues, with "ceilings" that are really high!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:58 PM) Anthomy Swazak is not Miller or Chapman. Not even close. He doesn't have the history, nor are his numbers THAT good this season. Because I said he was Miller or Chapman. Other pitchers pitched in the postseason other than Miller or Chapman.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:54 PM) People really seem to be sleeping on this kid. His ceiling is way higher than 4th OF. I was somewhat dissapointed with the Robertson/Kahnle/Frazier return, but I think this is a really nice return for Swarzak given how loaded the market is right now with relievers. For instance, I'd have much rather had Diplan. At least there may be a need for him.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:55 PM) that's ok...let it out stud...we're here for ya *man hugs* And you keep being the sheep. Hugs.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:45 PM) So I think the reality is...when a guy is just a few months removed from being a minimal signing, you just can't disconnect trade value, etc and expect current production. In the case of Kanhle, there was more dynamics at play, since we had him under control for a few more years...but in the case of Swarzak, relievers are highly volatile, and while stuff is there, the guy is old and a free agent at the end of the year, with minimal track record of success. You just can't expect to get "current production" sales price for someone who has only produced for a couple months who is going to walk at the end of the year. We heard yesterday the likely value was a top 150ish guy or so... We basically got someone closer to top 350-400. But the whole goddamned board wants to keep rationalizing and justifying that guys with good stuff that have eras in the low 2's in a year where we're seeing the most home runs basically EVER are worth NOTHING. Bulls***.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:40 PM) what part of rental don't you get? Did you watch the playoffs last year?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:34 PM) Wow. I really didn't think he had any value at all. Nice What the f*** game are you watching? He's been the 7th best reliever in baseball this year. Think about that. Out of basically 200 relievers, he is #7.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:28 PM) Well that, and the fact that they've traded away like 20 WAR worth of players for minor leaguers in the last 8 months. We f***ing sucked before we traded 20 WAR worth of players away for minor leaguers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:27 PM) He is a free agent in three months. They can still resign him if they want at the end of the year. Not trading him for the best offer now is just flat out irresponsible. No it isn't. Think about it this way. You say, Yo, Anthony, how about we allow you to close for us for the remainder of the year. We are also going to offer you a 1/$5 million contract for next year. Maybe he takes it. Maybe he continues to pitch this way. To me, it's a gamble worth taking. I mean, we will sign some relievers in the offseason. Not saying we can't sign Swarzak if we trade him, but you might be able to get him on the cheap if you do it now. But instead, we now have another 4th OFer. YAY!

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:21 PM) What is stopping the Sox from signing him again in the offseason? Beyond that, maybe the Sox keep him, have him close down the stretch, and another team closer to contention offers him a 1 year, $10 million deal with the guarantee of closing, in which case the Sox lose him for nothing. There are a lot of moving parts in that, and at the end of the day, they got a talented, high floor, low ceiling prospect for him. Fair point. Like I said, I should probably see Cordell a bit before spazzing out but I just see no need for him. We have 25 other guys with 4th OFer potential like this already. That's why we f***ing suck.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:16 PM) Watching a couple videos, looks like he has good bat speed but the swing gets long. Really lean. Definitely has good power behind the swing, as he absolutely murders a mistake for a grand slam And with how he was previously used with Texas, I could see the Sox moving him around the field to get him ABs too. Not that I have ways of seeing range and arm strength and whatever else, but he didn't make many errors anywhere he played, save his initial stint at 3B in 2015 with the Rangers. Considering this was a move for a guy who signed a minor league contract, yes, I'm just fine with this move. Guessing the White Sox looked over all the guys that teams were offering them, came to the conclusion no one was going to offer more, and picked the guy for whom they had the highest projection. Why does this matter?

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 06:17 PM) Why would you even care to re-sign him? Next year is a wash and the year after will he even be good anymore? If there were some intriguing young arms being offered Im confident that Hahn would have jumped on it. Once again there is a lot of over estimation of realistic pieces that Hahn was likely being offered. Reality is probably far from all the assumptions that are being made. Because he might actually be good? If you sign the guy and let him close for you (we still do need, like a closer and s***, even though we suck) and he does well, then you trade him for something more than Cordell?