iamshack

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 08:13 AM) I bet the Sox were being fair with offers but honestly, Yanks would have to deal Torres to top Eloy Jimenez anyway. Jimenez is better than anyone in Yankees system. Yeah, my guess is we wanted Torres and Rutherford, and they pushed Mateo. Who knows, maybe because of Timmy we were asking for a guy like Frazier. It is really hard to know what the Yankees situation would be because of TA.

So there was a discussion this morning on MLB radio in regards to the Dodgers' FO. It is massive. Link They have some really bright minds in their FO which allows them to have multiple perspectives on things - a way of diversifying their portfolio, so to speak. I remember a few years ago making an argument that the White Sox Org should make more investments in instruction and coaching throughout the entire organization. There are areas where investments can be made, which seem like incredibly efficient and wise investments to make, particularly when compared against the costs of player acquisition/retention. Is this something the White Sox could benefit more from? Have they already been doing this?

So Brian Cashman was just on MLB radio and actually said he and Kenny hammered this deal out. He is very proud of his system and mentioned that often times other GMs will ask about some of his top guys, and he said he has to try and make it clear, that because of the depth of his system, oftentimes his 8-12 might be more equivalent to another team's 1-5. Other GMs don't want to hear that when he is trying to take guys like Torres and Mateo and Rutherford off the table. Sounds like they really wanted Quintana. We must have been asking for Torres and Rutherford or something.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:53 AM) I can instruct a factory to produce them in China for half that if anyone's interested... Hah, you crack me up. I actually cancelled the gray jersey because I ordered too big of a size and they were out of 44's. Ordered the black jersey instead.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:57 AM) A solid 5th starter is worth more than a stud reliever for sure. It would be interesting to debate whether it is worth more than a good one and a stud one (assuming Kahnle stays a stud) Again, this assumes that we don't have that already. I don't want to waste either of our mornings arguing about Ian Clarkin..let's agree to disagree.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:49 AM) I'm not convinced we have enough MLB caliber starters at all. Today? Probably not, but by the time Clarkin is going to be potentially ready (2-3 years?), I suspect we will have guys that are very similar or better options to him.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:45 AM) This deal was not made in a vacuum, Hahn knew what other offers for Robertson/Kahnle/Frazier were on the table. He stated this was the best overall offer and package they had received. We always want more, but sometimes a compromise is best. Rutherford + Clarkin + Polo + $20 million in salary relief is what this boils down to I understand. That doesn't mean the deal will be a big win if Clarkin turns into a 5th starter and Rutherford busts.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:42 AM) The winter of 2018 will be the time to re-up on Sox jerseys. The NHL just switched companies and there were some major deals on Hawks sweaters this spring. The last jersey I bought was a halfway to St Patrick's Day John Danks jersey back in 2006 or so...it was time to move on

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:38 AM) UA takes over MLB merchandise in 2019. You should have waited. I do applaud you for getting the real one, though, however. It beats those $30 counterfeit kind. That can be the Kopech jersey.

QUOTE (Username @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:32 AM) From a pure value standpoint, 6 years of control on a solid back end starter is pretty significant. Look at how much people are paying back end arms on the FA market. And we also shed a lot of $$ over the next few years between DRob's salary and Kahnle's arbitration raises. Very few of us would be happy with that return, but it's not as far off as it seems. Except we already likely have that asset in our own system. You only need so many starting pitchers. While his handedness is welcome, there isn't much else to like about him.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:12 AM) I'm sure we offered to eat salary, but likely it wouldn't have helped the return in this instance that much. If Rutherford and/or Clarkin pan out this deal is a big win I don't think this is a fair way to approach these deals. If Rutherford busts, but Clarkin turns into a 5th starter, this is a big win?

The jersey has been ordered.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:38 PM) I agree. Bring him up. They saw something in him when they signed him and put him on the 25. have no idea what, but see what he has. Just as soon find out. Did we not bring him up already this year?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 05:01 AM) They signed Feliz in the offseason but that didn't work out very well. Wasn't he a top 10 prospect at one point? Neftali? Yes, he was a big prospect. I think there were hopes he would be a starter though.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 05:01 AM) Mariners close to trading for a reliever. Jeesh, their pen seemed strong already when we played them.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 11:11 PM) If we can't land Machado or he falls off a cliff like Andruw Jones, Arenado will be 29 if the sox sign him going into the '19 season. I take it you are implying he will be too old at that point? I think his game will age well. I wouldn't be opposed to doing something like 7/225 for Arenado, assuming he continues to be the type of player he looks like he is today (at the time of the signing).

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 04:17 AM) Harper is not signing a one or two year deal, it is gonna be more like 10 years. Just because the 2019 payroll will be low, doesn't mean you can easily load up for the next 10 years on one player like that, especially when your younger players will be getting raises. I'm not saying the Sox won't make a big FA splash, but there are so many other teams with deeper pockets, I just can't see them being the team to sign the largest FA contract in baseball history. Are you advocating actual 10 year planning? No baseball team would ever do that! Yeah, I get it...the Sox payroll will be low at the time of the signing, which would allow them to be competitive on cost at that time, but perhaps not for the back half of the deal or so. You may very well be right. It may be cost-prohibitive towards the back end, especially considering that will likely coincide with a decline in performance by the player as well. Perhaps you could front load it to make it more palatable.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:47 PM) I don't know what to tell you, man. If you gotta feel bad about it, then I guess you gotta feel bad about it. I thought you said EYE was the one being a wet blanket, lol. Haha! Yeah, I think there are a lot of folks singing a different tune justifying this return as opposed to what was expected prior to learning of the package, whether that was in talking about hypothetical deals or the actual return once the package from our side was known. I know we can all agree we hope we become YUGE Tito Polo fans

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:31 PM) You had to go onto the next sentence, where I argued that the amount of time spent on the deal likely ensures that we received market value. Yeah, which sucked. You don't need to trade into a rotten market if you control the guy for 3.5 more years. Then I would have had to go onto your next sentence, which talks about relievers getting injured that see velocity spikes. ' Blah, blah...it was a f***ing light return.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:21 PM) I think you guys are making it more complicated than it is. There doesn't have to be an obvious winner or loser. We traded present value for future value, it's that simple. Kahnle may turn elite, Rutherford may bust, but it doesn't matter -- Kahnle wasn't going to win championships for us, but Rutherford might. With as long as we've been obviously shopping all of our guys, I'm going to have a hard time believing that Hahn hasn't held out for max value. I understand if "max value" turns out to be less than we hoped or thought, but it is what it is. It's possible that Kahnle returns more next year, but given the high injury rate of relievers combined with the extremely high injury rate of pitchers who see sudden, substantial velocity spikes, it's at least as likely that he returns less or nothing. Sometimes the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. This is an oversimplification that doesn't address actual market value of the asset today. Under these assumptions, we might win any deal wherein we trade a player today for a player tomorrow. That's not a reasonable analysis.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:12 PM) Sure, if Arenado was a free agent that year, but he's not. Machado will be 25 at that time, meaning he'll fit ideally with the core of the team, and he'll fill a position that is likely to still be a need. Arenado is a free agent the following year, and will be 29. I'd be more than happy to make a run at him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:48 PM) And most teams that were whispered for him other than Washington would have used him as a setup man. I don't suspect he would have suddenly sucked in other high-leverage situations. It was the garbage time that he usually didn't fare well.

QUOTE (TRU @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:30 PM) I think if that were true Robertson would have been gone at some point before last night. No one is itching to pay 13 million + for a good but not dominant closer. Especially when its pretty obvious the Sox did not want to eat any of his salary in a deal. Frazier was practically worthless. He didn't need to be here anymore and we couldn't offer the QO to get a pick because he would have more than likely accepted it. I don't even consider him an asset in this deal. Ultimately we get a top 30-40ish prospect plus two more actual prospects to unload the Robertson money and Kahnle. Robertson was pretty dominant in save situations.

So Fathom and I were discussing this...does anyone have Milb TV? And if so, is it worth it?

Btw, anyone know what Trubisky signed for today? Edit: I guess it is a rookie scale now, eh? I'm old.