iamshack

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:51 AM) Unless someone gives up nice value for Abreu (which would be unlikely in this market), I have no problem keeping him and possibly even extending him. Not sure what the financials would look like, but I kind of like the idea of him as our DH and anchoring our lineup for the next four years or so with all the youngsters expected to come up. You have concerns about Avi's weight, but not Abreu's?

Congrats fellas!

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:24 AM) I would love to land a guy like that, but can't see any major superstars ever coming to the Sox. They lose too much money on endorsements by playing in the shadows and not getting the recognition they deserve. Take Sale for instance, one of the top two or three pitchers in baseball and he has to go to Boston to get people to take notice of how good he really is. I think it is much more likely the Sox acquire someone like Stanton that the Marlins don't want to pay anymore, has superstar upside and is locked in long term. Stanton to the Phillies speculation has made it sound like a Stanton trade would be a salary dump. The 10 years and $285M left on the deal (plus an option with a $10M buyout) would get the Sox a generational talent with a much more realistic pricetag than what Harper is going to command. Your assumptions are based on recent Sox teams. I think the point made earlier is that this has the chance to be very different than those teams.

I can't imagine it would be worth it for us to move him.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:06 AM) Like I said, I do think we came up a player short in the deal but at the same time I didn't think we would get someone as highly ranked/touted as Rutherford. It's possible Kahnle gives you someone like Rutherford by himself in the future but I don't think his value was there yet anyways. If he was closing for us in a year I think he would be building towards that type of value. Let's see if anyone pays the price for Hand. That might give us an indication.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) $$$$$$ and we are going to have a s***load of it. And I think people need to stop and think about what they are saying when they say "No FA like that is going to want to come to the Sox." As someone aptly said yesterday, "This is not your Father's White Sox organization." If enough of these guys pan out, and we've got a really talented young team on the field, I will ask the question: Why would Bryce Harper NOT want to come to the White Sox?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:58 AM) Yes, but in the position we are in, I'm willing to take the gambles of prospects failing than with major league assets falling prior to us getting a return. I get it, I really do. The reliever thing. Does Kahnle have an injury history? Because Nate and Jesse did, if I recall correctly. Besides, I know Jesse was going to get us Arrieta, but no one knew Arrieta was going to turn into what he did either. Jesse really wasn't worth crap, even before he failed the physical. I guess I just believed in Kahnle, and would have personally taken the risk on him.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:52 AM) The saying goes, rebuilding clubs should always be trading relievers. The trade really breaks down like this: Robertson + Frazier for Ian Clarkin + Tito Polo + Tyler Clippard ($2.5 million owed, Sox pay) + Yankees pay entire remaining salaries for Robertson/Frazier (Sox save roughly $20 million) Kahnle for Rutherford I like Kahnle, I really do. I know he has shown great improvement this year and has been outstanding, and very well may continue to do so. I also know what happened to Jesse Crain, Scott Linebrink and Nate Jones though. Relief pitching is arguably one of the most volatile positions in the sport. Overall we should be very happy with this deal, as it both saved the club money and added young talent. Hahn has done a tremendous job stocking our farm system with interesting young players. Not all of them will pan out, but the team certainly has plenty of potential options and depth that it did not have 12 months ago. This deal also greatly aids our tank efforts, as I do not see them winning very many games with such a shaky bullpen. Also, consider we traded Gordon Beckham for Yency Almonte...Yency Almonte for Tommy Kahnle...Tommy Kahnle for Blake Rutherford.................we basically used Gordon Beckham to acquire Blake Rutherford I appreciate your arguments, and your mild manner, but I would have wanted nothing to do with Robertson and Frazier for Ian Clarkin, Tito Polo and Tyler Clippard. Obviously, it's not my money though, and that plays into the equation a lot I'm sure, but while that way of breaking the deal down is convenient for your argument, that's just a rotten return for Robertson. And the Beckham-Almonte-Kahnle-Rutherford stuff is cute and all, but has absolutely nothing to do with how one evaluates this trade.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:52 AM) It's because some will bust that I want as much redundancy as possible in our farm system. But the point with Blake playing hsi way into untouchable status: there were quite a few players in the top 70 or so who some posters identified as risers and really good players that people objected to based on ranking as not good enough for Q. Think Tucker and Acuna. 6 months later they were too good for Q. If Blake shows his talent, a young, talented offensive OF prospect is >>> a good reliever. But I totally agree that at this point we are strictly relying on sox staff. Our initial returns were AAA guys who had been developed elsewhere. THis new crop is A/A+ guys who have quite a ways to go. Can't we hire the diamondback player dev guys who turned out AJ pollock and Peralta please? And there were also guys like Glasnow and Meadows that we would have died for that now have taken steps back. It works both ways.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) He was a 5th round pick and a Rule 5 guy right? You're acting like we just traded Kershaw for the corpse of Borchard. Johan Santana was a Rule 5 guy. Good thing the Twins traded him after his first signs of success in 2003.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) He was a 5th round pick and a Rule 5 guy right? You're acting like we just traded Kershaw for the corpse of Borchard. Look, I'm not going to make the same arguements with the 5 or so guys that want to suddenly value Kahle as nothing because he's no longer on our team. Try reading. Read Hahn's quotes. Read the analytics. Watch a game.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:55 AM) Well the idea would be getting someone who could be productive at the same time when our other top guys are potentially being productive. Avi Garcia doing good for 2 years when most of the other hitters aren't ready doesn't do anything for the MLB team. He's TWENTY f***ING SIX years old! In 2019 he'll be 28...FFS.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:38 AM) Yah, but I'd take Luzardo over anyone not named Rutherford in our deal. The trade is fine. I'm not super excited about it, but not mad either. Add Florial or Sheffield or even Tate and I like it a lot more. I feel like moving Kahnle in a deal without the other two should have returned more overall, but seems that wasn't the case. I agree. I feel like as long as our scouts really, really love Rutherford, then great. On to Moncada.

QUOTE (MDWhiteSoxFan @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:03 AM) IamShack what would you have to receive in order to trade Avi? Just wondering as he never put all together until this year much like Kahnle but he is younger and a bat. I like the return as Rutherford is a young potential impact OF, I trust the organization when it comes to pitchers for the most part. Tito's numbers are pretty great right now as a throw in type. For Avi, I'd want a guy our scouts really, really liked in the top 50 or so. Otherwise, I'd hold onto him and gamble a bit.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:15 AM) Kahnle is like a penny stock that took off and could be on its way to blue chip status, but is also one bad quarterly earnings report from being back in the toilet. Sell now, while you're getting value at all. He's not a penny stock. Dude has incredible stuff. He was always well-thought of as a guy who, if he could put it together, he could be dominant.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:16 AM) Seems you just don't like the deal. Might as well not even comment on it anymore. After what happened to Nate Jones I have no idea how you can be an advocate of waiting. That could end up being two pieces that should be traded we lost all value for. And after the A's deal all the Robles talk went out the window. So we can't comment if we don't love a trade now?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:14 AM) Did Kahnle increase his FB velocity? I thought he always threw hard, i thought it was just swarzak with the increased velocity. It's up this year, and he has learned to control it. Look at the fangraphs article from yesterday.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:06 AM) So you are thinking his value increases as this season ends into next season? Yes. I think at this time next season, Tommy Kahnle will likely be valued more than he is today. Had he stayed here, and gotten the opportunity to close, I definitely would have believed that.

I love the Eaton deal, but I think both Moncada and Kopech are going to be studs. Could be the only two prospects in all of baseball, taken together, that could make me feel ok about watching Sale in Boston right now.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:57 AM) Depreciating assets. There is nothing "depreciating" about Kahnle.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:55 AM) The mark of a good trade is when both fanbases hate it. This one is spot on. The reaction by most here seems to be positive.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:46 AM) My point is nothing personal against the players themselves, but rather we should deal Robertson/Kahnle now to get what we can. A good closer does nothing for us in 17/18, nor does a great setup man in Kahnle. I'll take the prospects all day for where we are at in the rebuild. Rutherford is certainly the gem of the deal, and despite being several years away could be an impact player. What more were Sox fans really expecting? Have you seen what the return was for JD Martinez and Doolittle/Madson? To continue to make this argument completely ignores the point that these were assets that had value on the market. I get that we want to convert them to assets that can help us in the future, but that doesn't mean you just start dumping all your present assets down the drain to get anything you can.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:46 AM) Ha, ok. If Kahnle somehow becomes the best reliever in baseball and a top 40 prospect completely busts out, then maybe it was bad. The odds of that are extremely slim. Relievers are simply not that consistent to make me regret ever flipping one. This is such horses***. The odds of Kahnle keeping this up in the major leagues are slim to none, but the odds of an A-ball prospect turning into a valuable player are great? If Kahnle was a prospect we'd be all f***ing amped about him.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:38 AM) Trading players that wouldnt have been part of the rebuilt White sox means is 100% isnt going to "blow up in their faces." Its amazing we fixed a reliever and used him partly to bring back young talent. Thats how you rebuild. That doesn't mean you just dump everyone that doesn't fall into that window and declare it a winner if you got someone who does. Thus far, Hahn has been extremely patient, and the returns have been pretty outstanding. This one felt like it was a bit more, umm, Kenny.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:33 AM) It mostly was 3 for 1 but consider how good of a prospect rutherford is. The system was already so good that the sox could afford to shoot for the one last blue chip guy instead of depth. The secondary pieces could have been better and maybe they even could have gotten 2 top 100 prospects but a top30 guy is very different from a top80 guy. The latter projects to be an average regular and a top30 projects to be a borderline all star. The sox need upside and they got it. I mwan most of the sale was already completed and we were hoping for guys like kienboom and lesser prospects like omickey. Now they got a little less depth but would anyone have thought we get a guy like rutherford? You usually don't get such a guy unless you trade a top player and to get him the sox had to bundle their resources and take a hit on the secondary pieces. Yeah maybe you get more if you sell kahnle separately but then you don't get a top 30 prospect unless you wait 3 years and then kahnle is the best closer in baseball. There is debate as to whether the guy is a top 50 guy, a top 80 guy....he didn't exactly light it up to start off the year.