iamshack

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 08:12 PM) If we are talking about last season then Ellsbury, Pedroia, Papelbon, Varitek, Youkilis, Delcarmen, Buchholz, Lester straight from the system. Honorable mention to Schilling, Beckett, Lowell, and Crisp as they were gotten through use of the farm system via trade. If we are talking about 2004, what does it matter? At that time their "core" wasn't old either. That time period has no relevance to the current situation. They are stacked now, and now is what we are talking about. Farm systems fluctuate when it comes to producing Major League talent. The Red Sox are up now. Besides, they still had a good system back then. They just chose to acquire Major League ready players with it. Not to mention, the Red Sox don't just hand jobs to the Jerry Owens and Danny Richars of the world. It takes a special kind of prospect to crack the Red Sox lineup. Pedroia played very well all season. Ellsbury played how many games for them? Varitek was acquired via trade for Heathcliff Slocumb, in a deal they didn't even mean to get him in. Youkilis they drafted. Buccholz made 2 starts, had no effect on their playoff run. Lester pitched how many games for them last year? If you want to talk about guys they received in trade, you have to do the same for the White Sox- you can look at Konerko, Thome, Vazquez, Garland, Thornton, MacDougal the same way. And past players as well, including Garcia. The White Sox don't normally hand jobs to guys like Owens or Richar either, but every team has its moments. Ask the Red Sox about Doug Mienkiewitz and Alex Cora. I'm not really sure you have much of a point, other than the Red Sox have a better farm system currently than the White Sox. But as you say, farm systems fluctuate. But your original point has no merit.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 06:00 PM) KW, the past year or so has been quick to mention after almost every transaction how he always has an eye on the future. Basically, KW did the bulk of his free agent signing during the season with the passing out of extensions. At the time all the extensions got done, except I think they really went overboard on Vazquez but it does appear it could save them money, the contracts, given the state of the current market, were reasonable. But, if you have an eye on the future, and have a system so bare you have to fire a long time employee, so really very little cheap help is imminent, how do you bring back the same core when it appears so obvious their window has closed? Its kind of like buying accessories for $.50 on the $ for say a HDTV. But buying too many, you don't have enough money left over for the TV. What good does it do you? Pitching wins. Can you really say the pitching staff is A) definitely improved, and if the answer is yes B)improved enough to win the 25 or so more games it will take to make the playoffs? Well, I agree with most of what you said there...I didn't particularly care for the Dye extension, but if the alternative is one decent prospect, I think you may as well extend them at a decent market rate and then look to move them again sometime later. As for the pitching staff, I really, really don't think that the pitching staff has to win 25 games more for us this season. I think we need improvements from our offense, our bullpen, and our defense as well. Can we make the playoffs this year, I think our chances are worse than they were last season. But I don't think you can judge Kenny simply on whether we make the playoffs this year. If we start out slowly again, I fully expect him to start moving veterans and building towards 09' and 10'. And if he can't get that done, then fine, I'll admit he misinterpreted the landscape and should probably be replaced.

QUOTE(JohnCangelosi @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 05:40 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1553195:date=Dec 26, 2007 -> 05:05 PM:name=iamshack)-->QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 05:05 PM) <!--quotec-->Oh, btw, it seems Prior can earn $4.5 million in incentives with the deal as well. The end result still is some people are on record of wanting to give prior 1-2 years at a GUARANTEED $3M+ per year. Even someone mentioned a 1 yr deal at less than 5M would be a bargain with an option of 8M on a second year! Uhh...how about 1M!!!! LOL- I get a kick out of it though. People want to play GM on this board and then expose themselves by saying something like offering him 2 years, offering him around a guaranteed 5M with an option for 8M (check out earlier posts on this thread for more info) when the reality the max you would have to give this guy is 1M plus some incentives. The proposed trades I have seen on this forum and the FA signings outside of the "no brainer" FA's (Hunter, etc) have always been way out of wack. Here's yet another example. Sure, he got 1M - a major league contract and it was incentive laden that will get him an additional 4.5 M IF he meets them but we don't know what those incentives are- I would guess they are well above a 2M bonus for showing up smiling everyday. So, sure SD's park had a good deal to do with the signing for only 1M + incentives. However, anything around $3M would be a ridiculous contract for a guy who probably won't be pitching until May of next year and is clearly off the juice and it's showing. I can't see this guy competing next year or any year soon, I cannot believe anyone would consider wasting a frickin dollar on this guy at this point- hell, I think resigning Pods would be a 100X better of a move. I really, really think you're misjudging the market for Prior here. And I really think you're overlooking his desire to pitch in San Diego for his buddy Kevin Towers. He took that deal because he wants to be comfortable and make his money beginning next year. I'd be really surprised if he didn't have at least 1-2 offers on the table for a guaranteed base of $3-4 million.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 05:37 PM) I have. Go back to the threads. GP and fathom are the 2 I have PMs with the most, and I know we are probably known as being the 3 most pessimistic, I respect their opinions but we don't all agree on everything. I respect other's opinions as well, but sometimes the posts to rip us are ridiculous. There are more than a couple people on this site that agree with everything KW does. If he traded Konerko for Matt Murton tonight, there would be guys backing him up on it. I prefer to do my own thinking. Just because I don't think Linebrink fixes the bullpen, just because KW signs another free agent to a 4 year $4.75 million contract and I have a hard time believing he's a savior because I figure if he was he wouldn't be available at that price, and just because I happen to like Uribe and although I think Cabrera is probably better than him, but do think his numbers will probably drop a bit next year, and thinking the difference between Garland and Floyd is too immense to offset the boost in production the White Sox may get out of the SS position, (remember Cabrera has a lifetime .321 OBP, hardly stellar), just because I think Richar has a lot to prove, just because I don't think Carlos Quentin (If you check the thread, I did like the deal) will make a huge impact in 2008, just because I look at the back end of the pitching rotation and see Danks and Floyd and start to cringe, I guess that should make me ineligible to post on a White Sox message board. The reality is this team has been awful for a season and a half. I just fail to see how a GM can have a team with a $108 million payroll, making all the correct moves, yet has a farm system ranked near the bottom of all of baseball and a major league team that was battling for the worst record in all of baseball late in the season. DA, The funny thing is, I think we agree on a lot of specific things. I agree with you on a lot of players such as Contreras and Uribe that many posters hate. I love the Quentin deal, but it's not likely he'll have a huge impact in 08'. I worry about Danks and Floyd as well, but I don't see a whole ton of other options available. I'm not sold on OCabrera either, btw, and the timing of that trade was not the brightest. But I think in order to judge the job Kenny has done, you've got to look at the things he's done and the decisions he's made at the time they were done and at the time they were made, and judge him from that perspective. And I have challenged you a number of times to suggest alternate courses of action that could have been taken, and to be brutally honest with you, you're suggestions haven't passed the smell test. You can judge KW all you want for the place we were in on October 4, 2007, but unless you analyze HOW it is that we got there, instead of THAT WE ARE JUST THERE, I think it's overly simplistic and unfair to simply say he's an ignoramus who has done a terrible job the past few years. Sometimes players don't get the job done, and you really don't seem to want to place any of the responsibility or blame on them. I clearly disagree with you there.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 05:10 PM) I like the Quintin pickup. I think we've got a couple of young guys who could be very valuable to have in the coming years in Danks, Fields and Quintin, but I'm also hesitant to anoint them as anything special because Fields has to survive his second season, Q. has to live up and Danks - well, you know about pitchers. Still, I think there were more quality pieces to play with. I wish, I mean. Well that's good to hear. I like Quentin alot, Danks I am a bit disappointed in, and Fields, well, I wish we would have dealt him for a more established star, but hey, the Marlins HAD to have Cameron Maybin...I can't wait to see Gio pitch for the big club, I'm excited that DLS came out of nowhere to become a BP 5-star prospect, I like they we finally have a few ss's in the system that could actually become good players (even though they are at least 3 years away or so), and I am also excited to watch Gavin Floyd some more this season. I think he's really going to surprise a lot of us. Another question for GP and DA: Where were you guys philosophically on KW after 05'? Skeptical? On his bandwagon? Somewhere in between? I wasn't here then so I'm just interested to know...

Oh, btw, it seems Prior can earn $4.5 million in incentives with the deal as well.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) I don't think anyone said they were "too old." At least I was merely disagreeing with the statement that the core of this team was not old. And besides, Boston's situation is completely different that the Sox. They actually produce impact talent from within. They have a ton more youthful talent than the Sox and can get away with an aging core. Going forward, the age of our "core" is a huge problem with the way this organization produces talent, and is reluctant to bring in talent from the free agent market. On the other hand, it is not a problem for the Red Sox. Even in this upcoming season, relying so heavily on a core that is on the downside of their careers is somewhat of a problem. Until very recently, Boston has not developed crap from within. Name all the players from their Championship teams that they developed from within, please.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) BS. I've said several moves have been good. While I don't necessarily agree that Linebrink is the guy who fits the White Sox bullpen and really question what he has left, I said KW had to do it. I've supported players on this site who have been ripped apart. I like Uribe better than most, and have even defended Jim Thome who gets ripped on this board. I thought the Garcia trade was decent. I initially agreed with the Garland trade, believing more pitching was on the way, but switched when Gavin Floyd and John Danks were then being counted on to man 40% of the rotation.What's wrong with stating you disagree with a move? What makes it so enjoyable to numb your mind and just agree with every move a guy makes? That's what's happened on the other side of town, and as soon as the White Sox won, that stopped, and guess what, better players are now in place for them. Why is it wrong to criticize moves, but not wrong to always agree with KW? The proof is in the pudding. The team has been lousy for a season and a half. #2, Then why don't you ever give the guy credit for making those moves? How does a collection of "several good moves" not improve the guy's stature with you? I know you characterize me as someone who "always agrees with KW." And for the most part, I do agree with a majority of what the guy has done. But are there moves that I would like him to make that he doesn't? Of course! Are there moves he makes that I would rather he not have made? Of course! (For instance, I don't particularly care for the Linebrink signing- I still think the better move is to deal for young, cheap bullpen arms (we just need better scouting) I also didn't like the fact that Kenny acquired OCab before having Hunter signed, but hey, what good is screaming about it going to do anyone?). But that doesn't stop you from characterizing me as "agreeing with everything" he does, does it? No. The point is, for the most part, I agree with his philosophy, his ideas, his moves, etc. You and GP disagree with those things. And that's fine. But where my questions come in are here: I come here because I love the team, I enjoy reading about them, I love our Owner, I love our GM, I love just about everything about the organization with the exception of it's mainstream fans (whom I have criticized several times on Soxtalk). You and GP come here and basically repeat ad nauseum that KW is a completely ignorant fool, the organization is a disastrous mess, etc. The entire point of my question to GP was to find out what it is that he is positive about when it comes to the White Sox, perhaps so we could discuss some of those things as well, instead of us both beating a dead horse from opposite ends. And I still haven't really gotten an answer yet.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) You're also the only person who has supported Contreras over the last year. #1, I am also a big supporter of Contreras.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) He also took less money in exchange for a 1 year deal that will allow him to pitch in the best pitcher's park in MLB. If he thinks there's a good chance he'll be healthy at the end of next year, then maybe he comes out and hits the FA market next year having put up a 3.25 ERA in the 2nd half or something, helped out by Petco, and he makes up that extra couple million right away. Oh I absolutely agree with you, it was a smart decision on his part- that park should help his performance and he'll obviously be comfortable there, as he is from that area. But one would think that he had better 1-year offers on the table- the Dodgers perhaps, the Mariners, etc. And honestly, I'm surprised he didn't go for the extra money.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) He said "core". Owens, Crede, Richar, Quentin are not core players. Our offense is never going to be built around those guys anytime soon. Dye, Konerko, Thome, and Cabrera are all old and part of the core of the current team. The same thing applies. Look at Boston's "core." Papi, Manny, Lowell, Varitek, Drew. Our players are not too old.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 01:55 PM) I don't think it was 'clear" you were talking about the players, especially since you mentioned Ozzie I thought it was a question about the organization itself. You don't agree it was an honest interpretation? If I recall correctly, you didn't say "Is there anything about the team you like?" I have trouble deciding how to respond to the rest of that..post. I mean, what can I say? What am I supposed to say? "You don't like the White Sox because you're critical of KW/JR. Or it seems like it." What do you want me to say? I still watch almost every single game -- the only times I didn't last year were when out on dates or a couple of times I was so tired from my baseball season that I passed out on my bed, and even then the White Sox were what was on my TV when I woke up two hours later. I'll watch or listen to every single Sox game next year and always cheer for them. I'll attend several games, as many as a busy College kid can realistically attend and more. I mean, I am critical of the organization because I feel they don't do a good job with the team I grew up loving and still do. You can question my fandom all you want, that's your right. I resent the line of questioning, but I don't begrudge you that right anymore than it's my right to love the team and the joys of attending a White Sox baseball game, even if I am a little negative. No, I'm honestly not questioning your "fandom." I believe you love this team every bit as much as the next person around here. What I am asking you is "why"? And I am not trying to be a smart ass. It's just that when nearly every post or comment is something negative about someone, it gets a little lost on me why it is you actually like the team? And with you and DA, it's reached the point where every acquisition or other decision that is made is immediately criticized or negatively evaluated, as if you have been conditioned to take such a position by the echoes of eachother's posts bouncing off the walls of Soxtalk. I just don't understand it...

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) Funny I got redirected to this post. Well obviously he took less money to sign with San Diego- he basically said the hell with the money, I'm going to go where it's most comfortable and try to put myself in the best position to break the bank next season. You may recall did I did mention in a different post that Prior and Towers often take long walks together. So it isn't as though I didn't think it could happen, just that he wouldn't forsake 2-4 million more dollars to sign with the Padres. Obviously, he did.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 24, 2007 -> 12:57 PM) If Linebrink is the answer for all the bullpen's problems, wouldn't Justin Speier have been the answer last season? I got ripped by the KW backers when I kept asking about him, because according to them, you don't spend $4 million on middle relief. Until KW does it the next season that is. Why does he have to appease the fanbase? Hasn't he stated over and over again that if he tried to do that the team would be terrible. Hard to imagine what terrible is considering he thinks a 72-90 team is a solid one. Believe me, DA, no need to continue to bring up Justin Speier. You've mentioned him so many times in an "I told you so" manner that we will never forget you being a proponent of his signing. And I agree, I don't particularly care for signing relievers to $4 million dollar contracts. Outside of a few handfulls of guys, most relievers are by their very nature, quite volatile. I agreed with the approach Kenny took last season in trading for several young, cheap, power arms. And when you take a step back and really look at things, it wasn't so much those arms not performing that cost us- it was the arms who pitched so well in 06' which failed us in MacDougal and Thornton, but then again, I guess that goes back to bp arms being volatile. Had we signed Speier, nothing would have been different, especially considering the way the offense performed. If you want to really press me though, I'll agree, that signing wouldn't have necessarily been a bad thing. But to blame the 07' result on not signing Speier is foolish, and you know that. As for appeasing the fanbase, don't pretend now that you don't realize how fickle our fanbase is. And unfortunately, they are not only fickle, but ill-informed. As for your continued bs remarks about him thinking a 72-90 team is solid, you're oversimplifying things to a degree to which even you must realize is unfair.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 24, 2007 -> 12:35 PM) Good post. The Sox organization has held up its end of the bargain with the fans by putting every dime it took in over the last two years back onto the field. Its too bad the players getting that money haven't held up their end of the bargain. That is the KEY problem here. Thank you for stating that. And that is a player problem, not a GM problem. Although the Kenny detractors will say he should have forseen the fact that those players wouldn't hold up to their end of the bargain. And that is sometimes a legitimate complaint. But I don't see it in the case of many of our players. Those players' whose decline or likelihood of failure was great were guys like Erstad, Pods, Crede- guys who weren't making a large salary.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 24, 2007 -> 11:58 AM) Sorry. I have seen the light. Since KW was the GM when the White Sox won he should always be the GM. Its because of him if the Sox win and its on the players if they lose. I will go with that now. Its time then to remove several players, don't you think? As to your first point, no, he should not "always" be the GM. But if you actually take the time to revisit the alternatives to the moves he has made when he made them, you'd realize there really weren't many answers out there to the problems which have befallen the team and the organization. I asked you, move by move, several days ago, what your decision would have been, and generally speaking, outside of your fantasy trade of Contreras before last season for several top prospects, and a trade of Cliff Politte, you basically would have made the exact same moves. Secondly, no, it is not all because of him that the Sox won in 05'. It was in large part because of the players. But these things work in tandem, and if one doesn't hold up their end of the bargain, the team fails. And to be completely honest with you, I think Kenny has for the most part held up his end of the bargain. The players are the ones who haven't. I'm sorry, but as long as you continue to cast the majority of the blame on the GM, and very little on the players, we will continue to disagree. I blame the players for not performing to reasonable expectations. Kenny's job is to put the best possible team on the field, keeping in mind the objectives of the organization both currently and in the future. I believe he has done an outstanding job of doing so. You, on the other hand, think he is to blame for the players not performing, which I have a hard time buying. Not with these players. I do think it is time to remove several players, honestly. I don't want a full-rebuild, but a rebuild-on-the-fly is probably the best move to make. Unfortunately, Kenny has to appease the fanbase, which is ill-informed about the parameters in which he must operate, and threatens to boycott the product if players such as Konerko and Buehrle are traded. These players also happen to be some of our most valuable trade pieces. My criticism of Kenny this offseason is this: 1) He should have held off on trading JG until Hunter signed, and/or MCab was traded. 2) He should have held off on trading JG until the CF situation was resolved. Then, had things turned out the way they did, he could have easily shifted gears more easily towards to future. However, ultimately, I think Cabrera can be either signed, traded, or will bring back draft picks which will help the club's future just as easily as simply trading JG for prospects.

GP, I was the one who asked you to list the things you did like about the "Organization." And I clearly meant players, as they really are the core of the organization. But the reason I phrased the question that way is because I was honestly wondering what it was that brings you here. I was thinking maybe you grew up in Charlotte and loved the Knights or something. Because honestly, sometimes it makes me wonder how you could watch this team. How you could come to soxtalk. Why you even waste your efforts worrying about this team when the overwhelming majority of your comments and your outlook is negative. And of course, the answer you basically gave is that you like the hot dogs.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 24, 2007 -> 08:33 AM) Where was I contradictory? I pointed out its a GM's job to get his team to the playoffs. After that its a crapshoot. See the 2006 Cardinals. That's always been my stance. No. The GM's job is to put together a TEAM that can get ITSELF to the playoffs. A team composed of players that PERFORM well enough to reach the playoffs. The GM does not throw a pitch, swing a bat, play the field, or throw anyone out at first. The GM assembles the best team possible with the resources available to him. Kenny, for the large part over his tenure, has done exactly that. He has put this team and these players in position to win this division by PERFORMING well enough SEVERAL times throughout this decade. Unfortunately for him and us, the players he has put on the field have not performed well enough to win the division several years where it was far more talented than any opposition. Finally, after the 04' season, Kenny was forced to let Magglio walk and the Carlos Lee trade, in hindsight, probably could have brought back more talent (oh, how it would have been nice to have gotten Gallardo). However, the trade ultimately paid immediate dividends in bringing back some pieces that helped us win in 05' (both in trade and in clearing salary). After 05' Kenny strengthened the team by adding Thome and Vazquez, and all looked great heading into the ASB. And it's difficult to argue that not having an average hitting CF was hurting us, because we did quite well despite BA's poor performance. Unfortunately, the 06' team collapsed in the second half despite adding MacDougal to the bullpen. Neal Cotts, Bobby Jenks, Brandon McCarthy, David Riske, Mark Buehrle, and Jose Contreras all had absolutely terrible second halves. I'm just not sure what Kenny could have done to counteract fall-offs by so many pitchers. Going into 07', Kenny added several bullpen arms, while trading away some of those that failed us- Riske, Cotts, and McCarthy. Fans were clamoring for a new CF'er, but the few available options were signed to dramatically over-priced contracts, including Juan Pierre and Dave Roberts, and their were no "easy" fixes. Rather than handcuff or "strangle" the payroll, as one poster likes to accuse him of doing, Kenny wisely stood pat and tried to find an internal option. And at first, it looked as though Kenny had pushed the right buttons. The bullpen was one of the bright spots in the month of April, as Aardsma dominated, Masset pitched well in long relief. MacDougal, Logan, and even Andy Sisco pitched very well. Then all began to fall apart again, as Aardsma, MacDougal, Sisco and Masset all pitched terribly in May. And we all know what happened for the rest of the season- the offense never got on track, and the bullpen ended up being quite a disaster. However, these performances by several players don't change the decision to acquire them at the time they were actually acquired. Suddenly, players whose acquisitions were celebrated are no longer desired because of the performance (or lack of) of other players. A team that was viewed as strong and peaking is now viewed as old and past their primes. And what has followed is the leap in logic that the acquisition of these players was the wrong move. That this team never had the talent to win more than the one Series title they did win and therefore, that is the GM's fault. And now that we have nothing to show for our efforts since 05', what Kenny has done is lead the organization down a path of absolute destruction, basically wrecking every facet from top to bottom. What a bunch of nonsense! Many of you fully admit that the 05' team was lucky, or flukish, etc. And I don't necessarily disagree entirely. Yet it is many of these same people who criticize Kenny for improving the team by adding Jim Thome and especially, Javy Vazquez. And now that the team he put on the field has not performed to expectations, he was wrong to have put that team on the field at all. That's not fair judgment- that's revisionist history- that's 20/20 hindsight vision. Meanwhile, the man's only traded away ONE valuable asset from his farm system in his entire tenure- Chris Young. There's been absolutely no one from our system that he's moved that has turned out to burn us other than Young. ONE player. And yet he is criticized to no end for that. I find it extremely difficult to fairly heap too much criticism on Kenny. When you look at some of the teams he has put on the field, the players really haven't gotten the job done for him to get his just due. Certainly they got it done in 05', but there should be more division titles in our trophy case. Perhaps an ALCS trophy as DA says. But I find it difficult to put that blame upon Kenny, considering some of the teams he has assembled. And finally, I find it extremely difficult to believe many of his detractors would have done a whole lot different to actually reach an alternative outcome. It's simple to sit here now and say this move or that move should not have been made. But I can't recall many of the extensions being handed out as very controversial. In sum, we are in the position we are as a ballclub because to a large degree, our players have not gotten the job done in the second half of seasons. Not Kenny Williams.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) 1. Who was the everyone slamming steroid users and 2. Who was the everyone praising this trade? 1. See the position I took in the Mitchell Report Thread, and most peoples' reaction to it; and 2. Never said everyone, rather, alluded to the general consensus in the thread that the Reds made a poor trade (which is as usual, the result of envious fans from a team that wanted him but did not get him)...

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 08:11 PM) Maybe I'm quibbling, but Gio/DLS aren't two of the "better pitching prospects in baseball". Gio has a lot of question marks and DLS has a long way to go, although he could quickly rise up the ranks. Tell us how you really feel. Well, Gio is a top 30 prospect overall...so that seems like he would be one of the better pitching prospects in baseball.... Secondly, I wasn't telling you how I feel. I was pointing out all facts...

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) When did I never give Gio his due? All I said was he wasn't an "ace" and that Miller and Kershaw were a step above. You are questioning former top pitchers in the Dodgers system? You do realize Gio is a White Sox right? One of the worst organizations in developing talent in the past decade. As far as minor league stats go, I'm just saying take them with a large grain of salt. That's all. And generally speaking, pitchers with good curveballs perform very well at the lower levels, so take that with an even bigger grain of salt. Kershaw is nothing right now other than an immensely talented, very young kid. He's not close to being anything more than that. Miller has had very little pro ball experience and hasn't proven a thing yet. I just don't agree that they are a step above in anything other than hype right now.

Well, DA, maybe you're right. Yuniesky Betancourt apparently signed for 4/2.826 million in Jan 05'. If this guy can play an effective CF for us, I guess this is a very creative move...

Nice article on Fields and Quentin on whitesox.com http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws There are some other good nuggets as well, regarding Prior (no interest at this time (which means he'll be ours tomorrow)), and Fields being clearly aware that he could be dealt "If I am still with the White Sox..." Also, supposedly Cabrera being open to an extension.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 06:43 PM) The Cuban league is supposedly on par with short season A ball. The guy didn't help himself with his 1-14 in winter ball and then asking for his release. He's basically right now like a drafted player getting a nice bonus. $4.75 million guaranteed isn't bad for a guy with little experience above short season A ball level. Well, we'll see. The guy faired pretty damn well against WBC competition....and Fukudome just got $48 million playing in AAAA ball, so I'm not so sure. If this was 10 years ago, maybe, but not now. And if it is $4.75 million, hey, I'm happy, but not much excited for this guy...

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 06:38 PM) That's true. I wonder if he dates Jose's daughter. Or maybe his grandaughter. I don't think is just coincidence Contreras was at his best when El Duque was around. He was able to continue it for a while after he was gone, but I think El Duque being around would really help Jose right now. Maybe another Cuban will do the same. It would probably help if his dirty, filthy wife wasn't such a user wench either...ok, ok, maybe that's a bit harsh...