iamshack

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) When you have a 3/4/5 that can hit 120 homers combined, leadoff is such an overrated position. Why can't we just have Thome leadoff? You are serious?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:05 PM) My point exactly. If this team gave up Cunningham, a valuable, A ball player in the OF, which happens to be a place where we're still trying to find players I believe...to bring in Richar to fill a hole, and then turns Richar into a super-sub...then basically they've traded Cunningham for the equivalent of Mark Loretta or something like that. Which would mean, to my eyes, yes, this team would be a mess, because it'd just be making moves left and right with no plan to even try to figure out what its needs are. Well, the plan was to bring in two very expensive players in Hunter and MCabrera, this necessitating the need for a league-minimum second baseman. Those two very expensive ballplayers never got here. Which means you suddenly have to do one of two things: 1) Replace the two of them with other expensive ballplayers; or 2) start getting young, talented players at key positions by trading the remaining valuable veterans you have. My choice would obviously be 2. And if that's the case, you have to adjust your plan, rather than trying to stick with parameters of a plan that is no longer feasible.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:00 PM) And I'll say again...if this organization gives up one of its better prospects in Cunningham to bring in Richar, and then immediately blocks Richar with someone else and therefore kills his value because we'd have no choice but to trade them...then we are truly a mess. I'd keep Richar on as a utility infielder and move Uribe, or I'd put him back in Charlotte for now. It's not as though he has such mastery of the game that he needs to be our starting 2b right now. That move was necessitated by the need to deal Iguchi.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 01:57 PM) I don't understand why everyone is down on kotchman, at this point konerko for kotchman plus a spect and either willits or figgins is a huge win for us. Kotchman would be a positive organizational move. It's not so much that I am down on Kotchman as much as I would like to move Fields to 1b, play Crede at 3b (this season), and get someone like Kendrick back at 2b.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 01:43 PM) And if that's the case, their offer would start with Kotchman and go from there. And I doubt it would include Kendrick for either of them. They might try to talk the Braves into a Kotchman + Willits + a pitcher other than one of their top guys deal for Tex because that would fill all the holes the Braves have and give the Angels that bat, but that'd probably be with the assumption that they could resign Tex. Those are all good points, but I can't see the Braves dealing Teixera for Kotchman/Willits/+. No chance. I'm not sure how it could work, only that I would tell them I needed to have Kendrick, not Kotchman. If that was not possible, than obviously it is not possible. But it isn't as though they couldn't flip Kotchman elsewhere.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 01:37 PM) I don't think that they'd move Kendrick for Konerko with any of those guys. They might well not move him straight up for Konerko. And like I've said, outside of their OF, they don't like blocking their kids. They have both Kotchman and Morales at 1b, and they have so many OF's that they have a rotating DH there. So unless they move Kotchman to pick up someone else, which is esp. unlikely now that Cabrera is gone since they have really no one else they can go after, they're not going to block their 2 cheap young 1b with Konerko at the same price as Vlad. That's a fair point. Although I continually hear from some friends of mine with sources within the Angels that they are looking at Konerko and Teixera again...

QUOTE(Wanne @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 01:36 PM) Maybe...maybe not. Not sure about the ethics of this...but if that window is till open...maybe Kenny can keep the lines of communication open and possibly sweeten the pot a little. But in all likelihood...it's done. It doesn't appear as if the Marlins worry too much about ethics.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 01:29 PM) yes, they could be at the top of the list for Konerko suitors. I just am trying to point out that you wouldn't be bringing back the 3 player haul from them that people seem to want. You wouldn't be pulling back Kendrick and Kotchman and anotehr guy, or Kotchman and a pitcher and Figgins. They just won't do it. Kotchman and Willits or Kotchman and Figgins might be what they'd consider offering, but they're probably not going beyond that. Agreed. I don't want Kotchman. I would try to get back Kendrick/Sean Rodriguez, or Kendrick/Mathis, or Kendrick/Santana...some sort of combination with Kendrick involved. But if they weren't moving Kotchman back, would that be a problem?

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:16 PM) Assuming they haven't already brought it up during the O-Cab talks, that is. Maybe the Angels are worried about Paulie's hip? Maybe they have their sights set on someone else now. I think Kenny would have to be absolutely blown away by an offer for Konerko. Not saying it couldnt' happen, but like Balta said, they are very reluctant to give away their young pieces. Why for Miguel then? Because he's 24. Well, we wouldn't be demanding as many pieces as the Marlins were. They also wouldn't have to pay Konerko as much as they would have had to pay Cabrera. I think Konerko would fit well into their plans, while not costing as much in terms of players or money. The one snag would be what would they do with Kotchman?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:11 PM) Ozzie's wife told Cabrera about it, after Ozzie called her and told her he was dealt. Everyone is saying what a pain in the ass the Marlins have been to deal with. This couldn't fall through, could it? Keep Cabrera out of the AL Central, unless he's with the White Sox. It would be nice, wouldn't it. For some reason, something just doesn't seem right about this deal...but who knows...

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:08 PM) Thinking about the Angels, I must ask: When is the last time the Angels actually traded their youth to bring in veterans? It's simply not something that team does. They tried to do a Santana/Tejada swap a couple years back and got shot down by Angelos, but beyond that, they usually wind up involved in every discussion and it always, always, always turns out that they don't want to meet the team's asking price. It would have, to my eyes, been a cakewalk for the Angels to beat the Tigers offer for Cabrera and Willis. Between Santana, Wood, Adenhart, Kendrick, and Willits, they could have picked probably 3 guys and beaten the Tigers offer, but they didn't. And now we expect that they're going to completely shift gears for Konerko? It's possible. I'm not sure why they didn't beat the Tigers' offer, probably because they didn't want to accept Dontrelle back. I know this much, the Angels have always liked Konerko, he is their kind of player, his salary is reasonable, and new GM Tony Reagins now has a working relationship with KW. Obviously I am just speculating, but he they would certainly be at the top of the list for suitors in a possible Konerko deal.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:01 PM) True, but Konerko's a deal is below market and he's signed for another 3 (?) years. Absolutely. Which is why he is one of the few pieces we have that has significant value. I am specifically thinking of the Angels...I imagine we could fill a few positions of need for the forseeable future at the league minimum for the next few years.

12:58 p.m., from Amy Nelson • Since news broke of the Marlins-Tigers blockbuster, Detroit left-hander Andrew Miller has not heard a word from anyone in the Tigers' organization. One of Miller's agents ran into Jim Leyland in the hotel lobby Tuesday night, and Leyland told him the deal wasn't anywhere close to getting done. What is unclear is whether any of the eight players involved have to physically be examined, which is why the trade could be held up. So far, Miller and his agents have not been told anything. Word is that the deal might not be completed until after the winter meetings -- unless there are other factors preventing it from getting done. Miller, in fact, is working out at the Tigers' spring training complex in Lakeland, Fla. He met with the trainers this morning, had his sore left knee worked on, and is now out playing golf with some of his teammates. Late in the season, Miller had an MRI on his left knee, where it turned out there was some mild cartilage damage. He's been rehabbing it ever since. Since he's officially still a Tiger, he wasn't denied treatment.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:56 AM) We could clear around 7 million and let Fields know the job is his. We may actually get something ok considering a number of teams want Crede. I would MUCH rather deal Fields in a package for Bedard but we all know that won't happen. You could clear $12 million by dealing Konerko, and Crede's $ will come off the books either at the deadline, or after this season, whenever he is traded or walks.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:53 AM) Keeping Crede would've been like keeping Garland. It isn't worth it. As much as it pains me to say Crede should be dealt, it's just too obvious of a move. It isn't worth what? You aren't going to get anything for him now, so what are you losing?

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:49 AM) Crede is gone at year's end. He's a Boras client and he's coming off of back surgery. Fields showed great potential at the plate last season and could be our mainstay at 3rd for the next decade. If you all want to hold onto Crede- I'm fine with that as well, but then deal Fields. We don't have the room to play them both. I hate the idea of giving Crede away, but it'll probably have to be done. I'm not arguing we keep Crede longterm. I'm saying we play him this year at third base, shift Fields to first permanently, and move one of the few valuable trade pieces we have (Konerko). Then address the third base position either at the deadline or next offseason, whenever it is that Crede is dealt or walks.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:25 AM) The other side of the token is...how much higher would his value be 3 months into the season when he is 2 months away from becoming a FA? He might have his value go up from performance, but his value would simultaneously go down every day because he'd get closer and closer to FA. I'm honestly not concerned about Joe's value. What I am concerned about is making the team the best it can be. If you keep Joe at 3rd base this season, you have a GG-caliber defender at third, another decent bat in the lineup, and you can move Fields to first and trade Konerko for something of value. Sort out trading Joe for a replacement 3b at the deadline or address it next offseason as Joe walks. But if you deal Joe for nothing now, you've got to keep Fields at 3rd, and any trade of Konerko has to net you a 1b replacement, which really limits what else you're going to get back. I'd rather be able to plug Fields in at first and get something the organization really needs in return, such as an mlb-ready position player with a high ceiling that can play somewhere in the middle of the field. The Angels come to mind. Konerko for Kendrick/Mathis? Kendrick/Santana/Sean Rodriguez? Something along those lines.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) Keep one or the other....not both. Why? Crede very little value on the trade market. Konerko has substantial value. Fields as well, but Fields is playing for the league minimum the next two years. This way, you move Fields to first, let crede play third and build up his value, and deal Konerko for a much needed piece (Kendrick, anyone?) As for Fields being an "athlete," he isn't athletic enough to play left field, and Joe is far superior defensively at third. I really don't care if Fields is on the field at all, as long as his bat is in the lineup.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) Saying that Dontrelle who had a bad season is done as a pitcher is nonsensical as well. Do you realize that young left handed pitchers who have had success in the NL might attract an offer or 2. I'm not saying he is done. I'm saying your logic for saying he is not done is nonsensical.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:27 AM) Well a few years ago, the Marlins couldn't find a guy to pick up Lowell and his contract to aquire this Beckett fellow. The redsox decided to take a gamble. He rebounded pretty well. Plus if they really didnt want Willis, Kenny could of turned around and spun him for something else. He is left handed, young so teams will be interested. Joe Cowley spins what the sox give him to spin. All I know is facing that lineup 19 times a year will be destructive. . Bruce Levine reported the exact same thing. As for Dontrelle, what the hell sort of logic is it to say that because Mike Lowell hits well in Boston, Dontrelle will pitch well again? That's nonsensical.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:22 AM) So 5yrs/60 mil? Yeah he's worth Konerko money......why don't we throw in a no-trade to boot? This is getting ridiculous. Please just let him go to the Dodgers.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:11 AM) Well, if the Cubs gave Fuku more than 4/55, then I don't see the Sox topping that. If they didn't, I don't see why the Sox couldn't just offer Fuku the same contract they offered Rowand. Rowand is a popular player but I doubt he sells any tickets. The Cubs reportedly offered him in the neighborhood of 4/$45m

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:04 AM) The Cubs are going to sign Fukudome! Bruce just said don't count the White Sox out just yet on Fuku.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:23 AM) I still think you hold on to Crede and Fields and move whichever of Thome or Konerko that you can and shift Fields to 1B. Then you can deal Crede in the summer after he has an opportunity to establish himself. Absolutely agree. They should try and move Konerko to the Angels for the best position player prospect they could get. Would LAA do Kendrick/Santana/Sean Rodriguez for Konerko? Shift Fields to 1b, play Crede at 3b, Quentin/Owens at LF/RF, Dye at LF/RF. Sign Fukudome. Deal Uribe for anything just to get rid of his salary. Play Kendrick at 2b, Cabrera at ss. Hope Rodriguez can step into ss in 09'. To me, this is by far the best thing uou can do to try and compete asap. Probably not in 08'. But in 09', 10', possibly.

I'd honestly rather just go 4/$48 for Fukudome.