iamshack

Here is the latest on the MCab to the Angels deal: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3135698 It appears the Marlins and Angels have settled on Kendrick and Mathis, and are noq squabbloing over which LAA pitchers will head to South Florida. The Marlins supposedly want 2 of the group of 3 including Santana/Saunders/Adenhart, while the Angels are only willing to surrender 1 from that group, along with possibly Reggie Willits. This would leave possible a deal of Kendrick/Mathis/Adenhart/Willits, as reported throughout the internet. However, I will believe that when I see it.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) Has anyone seen anywhere what kind of contract Fukdome is expected to get? I've seen different scenarios. Some say something like 3/$30 or 4/$40. However, a while back I read that he would be looking for $15-18 per year. That may have been before his elbow surgery though.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:08 PM) Stats like average with a runner on can be misleading too. What was the score of the game when Riske pitched? What was the inning? Guys like Aardsma have a tough time when its the 9th inning vs. when its the 8th. The Cleveland Indians wanted no part of David Riske on the mound late in close games. People can rip people coming to the conclusion Riske doesn't seem to handle pressure very well all they want, the fact is in an era where the bullpen is very important, 3 contending teams desperately in need of bullpen help at the time, dumped this guy without a second thought, and then he flourishes on a last place team. That's the fact. Its not only this site that questions Riske's stones. Its common knowledge. Maybe he's over it, but I think the Brewers may found out he's not the hard way. Absolutely. This is no secret. I brought it up several pages ago because I had read about Riske being a choke on Indians boards when the White Sox acquired him from Boston. Then I watched it happen while he was on the Sox (still cannot get the vision of Torii Hunter ripping a monster home run off Riske after one of Javy Vazquez's "6th inning meltdowns" in 06'). Then Buster Olney references Riske as having a reputation for "wilting under pressure" in his article. I don't know, maybe every single team's fans that Riske has pitched for seem to harp on the fact that he chokes (there is a reason fans have come to believe his name is very well-suited for him), and this truly isn't the case at all, but it certainly does seem to be coming from everywhere that Riske is not someone to be counted on in the late innings of a close ballgame.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 11:49 AM) Well he was also just on with Waddle and Silvy saying the same thing and he's absolutely right the only competition the Angels will have in the West next year is the Mariners and they don't really scare anybody. Anaheim has the easiest path to the playoffs of any team in baseball. Torii did say that KW's plan is brilliant and that Sox fans are going to love it but who the hell knows if he truly believes what he says. He did say that 2 things in KW's plan have already come to fruition with the Cabrera trade and the Linebrink signing so if he is telling the truth that's a good sign. Well that's interesting. I can't wait to see what the other brilliant ideas are...

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 09:10 AM) You think a Chris Carter / Heath Phillips package would get it done for Bay or am I dreaming? Dreaming. This is not a salary dump for the Bucs...it's a move to try and increase the number of solid position prospects in their system. I'm sure it will take 2 close to mlb ready players and a solid prospect at least.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 08:29 AM) This is Kenny Williams we are talking about here. This is a guy who loves to chase the superstar. Why would you think he wouldn't be pounding down Florida's door trying to get a superstar, who just so happens to have a mutal love affair with his volatile manager? I don't disagree with one word in your post. I would absolutely expect Kenny to pursue MCab. I just have a hard time believing he would have offered both Danks and Gio. I have an even harder time believing the Marlins would have dismissed that offer outright. Perhaps they are just down on our prospects- I really don't know- but passing on two left-handed starters, a third basemen with similar power to MCab (power, not hitting ability), and a speedster capable of playing center field for them? I think that offer at least would spur more negotiations rather than a straight "no thanks." And as I said last night- if that offer doesn't even make them think- then the hell with it.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:45 AM) Fields is still young enough were I don't think it's set in stone he is a 3b. Fields could take over for Bay in LF if included in a trade. Fair point. They also may be willing to take on Uribe if they deal Jack Wilson to the Cardinals.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:38 AM) Rowand wants 5 year deal, but Sox are only going to give him 4 years. Bay is someone who I thought KW might be interested in, but the Pirates are supposedly asking for the moon for him. The Fukodome stuff is interesting, as earlier today there were rumblings that the Sox weren't interested in him. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7506740 Interesting news regarding Jason Bay. Would be a great addition, but I agree, I've heard the Bucs want a ton for him, and they don't need a third basemen, as they would like to play Neil Walker there. They'd probably be looking to get at least one of Danks/Gio, as well as a young OF'er to replace Bay, as well as an additional piece or two. I think I read Bay will only make about $13 million total over the next two years, so he would be relatively inexpensive. But the price in prospects has to be reasonable.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) Gomez has done this body of work mostly as a teenager. He's faster than Owens. He has a much better arm. He's better defensively. He has more power already and is projected to have 20 HR power. He's been consistently touted and ranked in the top 100 prospects in the game. Gomez is compared to Crawford. Owens is compared to Coco Crisp. You can't say 100% that he'll be better but you can't say that about any prospect. Hughes might not be as good as Kip Wells, but that doesn't mean they are comparable. No I understand all that. And believe me, I know about all the hype and comparisons, and heck, I am no scout, so what do I know. But what I am saying is that in my opinion (and that may not be good for much), I don't see Carlos Gomez as a 20 hr guy. I know he's young, but he's basically a twig right now. And it could be that he could keep that world class speed even as he bulks up and adds power, but his build just doesn't appear to be one that looks like he'll ever hit for much power. As for Crawford, he had a far more muscular and athletic build at Gomez's current age than Gomez does.

I don't believe that that offer was ever made. And personally (not that it matters), I don't feel very comfortable with making any deal that includes both Danks and Gio in it. Along with Fields, you're talking about giving away what, 5.5 years of major league service time at the league minimum, and then a few more years at well-below market prices as they reach their first years of arbitration? It's just not worth it to me for one player, not with our current financial situation anyways. If we were the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, Mets or Angels, maybe, but not with the way things look for us right now. I guess as high as I'd go would be Fields/Danks/Sweeney/Broadway. And if that doesn't get it done, so be it. I'd much rather go out and sign Andruw Jones and keep the prospects than give away so much young pitching.

After looking at Sons of Sam Horn (SoSH), it does not appear that this deal is done. There is a source claiming the Yankees are still very much in the running, with a package centering around Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera. http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...as/extra_bases/ "The Twins are still trying to sort out who is willing to offer what. The Yankees are still very much in the hunt, with their talks centering around Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano. The Angels appear to have the ability to make a deal quicker than anyone else because they have talented young players and an abundance of pitching after they acquired Jon Garland from the White Sox in exchange for former Red Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera."

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 04:45 PM) Saw this on WSI Dan Roche of WBZ-TV says the deal is done and will be announced later this evening Sean McAdam on WEEI saying he is hearing the same thing except it will not be announced until Santana is locked up and the Red Sox would get 72 hours to do so. Boston sends Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Michael Bowden and Jed Lowrie to the Twins. Also The score had this in the update as well. That's thoroughly disgusting. I don't buy it.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 05:01 PM) Are we really comparing Jerry Owens to Carlos Gomez? Yes they have similar games, but one has faaaaaaaaar better tools. Neither is established. How could you possibly say that? From what little we've seen from Gomez, how can you tell us definitively that he's going to be any better than Jerry Owens will be? Their body of work up to this point is nearly identical. Obviously there is the age difference. But you certainly cannot claim the two players cannot be compared because of that.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 04:22 PM) Except Gomez is 21 and Owens is 26. Gomez's tools are better than Owens across the board. Gomez is still a bit raw, but he's going to be a good player. Right, their ages are the big difference. However, the time they have both been playing professional baseball is very similar. That conceded, they've got extremely similar builds. Gomez is 6'4 195, Owens 6'3 190. They've got similar minor league numbers. Gomez possessing a .704 OPS and Owens a .724 OPS. However, Owens has taken more walks throughout his minor and major league careers. I like Gomez as a prospect- his speed is incredible. But I'm just not convinced that he will hit as well as some think will be the case.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) Stud. Jose Reyes says he's the one guy he can't out-race. You want speed, he's got more than 99.9% of the world. Personally, I think he is a bit over-hyped. Looks like Jerry Owens with a little more developed stick to me...

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 03:41 PM) St. Louis and Toronto. He'd be a dramatic upgrade over what is there for both of those teams. It appears that St. Louis is looking into Jack Wilson.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 12:45 PM) Me thinks y'all may want to consider cooling it off some... Yeah, there is nothing worthwhile coming out of this thread any longer.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) Hah, that's wonderful. Your posts... they're soooo reminiscent of this other guy that used to post here. You know, attacking people instead of the debate at hand. I don't seem to recall what happened to that guy. Err... Dots.... connecting. Are you not the same poster whose critique last night of one of my posts began with the phrase "That's dumb as hell."?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 11:52 AM) So then what are the Sox waiting for? Sox missed out on their admitted #1 target in Hunter. The Sox don't have the luxury of putting together two or three different lucrative packages. They have 3 or 4 assets to trade, and all of them would have to go in order to get Miguel. I'm sure the Marlins know what those are. Well, I disagree that we would have to trade all our assets. But that is just my uniformed opinion. As for what are the Sox waiting for? I don't think it's the Sox who are waiting. It's the Marlins who are waiting. We've already seen evidence of them trying to engage the two LA teams in a bidding war. I'm certain that tactic hasn't ended prior to the Winter Meetings. I could never really have any clue, but I would guess something like Fields/Gio/Sweeney/Broadway is damn close enough to getting it done. But who knows what KW believes is too much to give away?

I think if the Angels had offered Kendrick/Willits/Mathis/Adenhart, MCab would be an Angel by now. I haven't read anything like that. What I have read is that they have offered Kendrick/Willits/Mathis and might consider adding Saunders or someone to that package. But not Adenhart.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 11:10 AM) I don't think that deal outbids the Angels deal. Fields is more valuable than Mathis or Willits, but Kendrick probably beats all the guys we'd be putting up in value, and so does Adenhart. I think a rough valuation of the guys on that list would be: Kendrick, Adenhart, Danks, Fields, Willits, Sweeney, Mathis, Then the last guy. You can quibble with me on little bits, but I think that with the way you built those deals, the players that LAA is offering are just worth more than the players we'd be offering. I've already argued against this once, and I disagree with you on your valuation of talent. This is what I posted the other day, keeping in mind that this original post was in response to Wite, not you: I won't argue with you in regards to Kendrick- he's going to be a very, very good player. Willits and Mathis on the other hand....I think you see them as more valuable just because you don't see them much. Do you realize Reggie Willits will be 27 on May 30 next season? He had ZERO home runs in 430 at bats last year. He has a grand total of 14 home runs in nearly 1600 minor league at bats. Certainly, he has a knack for getting on base- no one will argue that, but he projects as nothing more than a journeyman player for the remainder of his career, unless you're seeing something there that I am not. Meanwhile, you dismiss Sweeney who is nearly four years younger than Willits (about 45 months to be exact). While he hasn't shown the progress many of us thought he would after the giant steps he appeared to be making early, Sweeney has shown more power than Willits despite a wrist injury that has been slowing him down. When Willits was Sweeney's age, he was in A ball. Just keep that in mind when comparing the two... And Mathis? He has an OPS barely over .600 in his major league career. While his career minor league numbers are impressive (.793 OPS for a catcher), if he was one of our prospects many would be proclaiming bust and that he wasn't "much of a prospect anymore." As for Fields, you can talk about the k's all you want, the .244 BA, the .788 OPS for a CI, his low walk rate, etc, but anyway you slice it, a .480 SLG in your first year in the big leagues is pretty impressive. Heck, Chris Young's OBP, SLG, and therefore OPS numbers were lower than Fields' and yet we don't ever stop moaning about that deal around here... And Gio...when are the durability questions going to start to subside with this kid? Has he ever been significantly injured yet in his minor league career? And since when does a guy who k's 185 in 150IP with a better than 3:1 k/BB ratio not equal a very solid prospect, especially considering he just turned 22? And why is Nick Adenhart, who is admittedly 11 months younger but whose numbers weren't nearly as dominant a stud prospect (116 k's in 153 IP and less than a 2:1 k/BB ratio)? I just don't understand that.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) Yes they will. This is a business. The Marlins have property that is in high demand, and other teams want that property. You think because they're playing for time on MCab that if they put Dontrelle on the market, suddenly people wouldn't be interested? Of course they will remain interested, however, there is a certain code of ethics involved. It won't eliminate the interest from other teams, but it will weigh on them in their dealings with the Marlins. Look at the Baltimore Orioles. So many teams grew tired of dealing with them because of Peter Angelos that their reputation suffered badly. Prior to the hiring of Andy McPhail, their FO was widely considered to be a joke amongst other MLB executives, and the organization was hurt by that. Teams were hesitant to engage in serious talks with them because of the fear that Angelos would swoop down at the last second and veto deals. It happened with the Angels; also with the Astros.

Very interesting article about the MCab sweepstakes... http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...rlins_1129.html "We felt we had a deal with them twice," Moreno told West Coast writers during a news conference to introduce new Angels outfielder Torii Hunter and pitcher Jon Garland. "They came back and asked for more. They're doing it to everybody. "I think (Dodgers General Manager Ned) Colletti thought he had a deal for Cabrera, and it changed on him too. (The Marlins) maneuvered us against the Dodgers. We both need a third baseman."

QUOTE(chwhtsox @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) I don't agree with you on this, Hughes is one of the best pitching specs out there (if not the best). Gio isn't in the top 5. Sweeney couldn't make our team so Minnesota takes him in a Santana trade? Fields is obviously good but you really think he's good enough to make up the difference between Gio and Hughes? The 3 teams that are in on these talks have specs that our specs aspire to be like... Does anyone else get annoyed when people talk about our specs like they're great? I actually saw a thread where people were saying that we have a package of prospects that could land MCab...lol you guys need to stay away from the west side and get to a meeting... You know what I do get annoyed about? Is when people talk about our prospects as if they defacto suck because they came from our system. And all Red Sox prospects or Dodger prospects are the next Babe Ruth and Sandy Koufax because they are from their systems. Let me point something out. Any offer we make that includes Fields/Gio is a damned good offer. You're talking one of the best looking young power hitters in the game and a top left-handed prospect. Sure, the Angels have Kendrick and Wood and Adenhart, and the Dodgers have LaRoche and Kemp and Kershaw and Loney....but they aren't offering them all in one deal, and from everything we've read, they won't even package two of them together in the same deal. So yes, some of our prospects are good. And yes, we do have a package of prospects that could land MCab.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 07:34 AM) Interesting. I wonder if a 3 way deal is in the works? I saw the report on ESPN last evening and no mention of the White Sox was made. I wonder if the radio report was in error?