iamshack

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) Honestly, taking into account that we don't have talent to give up to get a guy like Crisp, Owens is cheaper, and the only thing Crisp looks better than Owens in with the bat is slugging, while Owens put up a similar batting average and OBP as a rookie with a disasterous first callup holding his numbers back, I'd be more excited about Owens, Jones, Dye. To my eyes, Crisp seems like pretty much the worst CF option out on the market outside of Cameron. Say what you want about his poor numbers being due to injury the last 2 years...why should I expect he'd be healthier this year? That's a fair point...replacing Owens with Crisp might not be the most bang for our buck...however, I feel like Crisp is a better defender, would hit 12-15 more home runs than Owens, and would be set up a nice 1-2 punch with OCabrera. However, there is certainly something to be said for some of the things Owens did in his second call-up. And by the way, I want Crisp for LF, not CF.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 10:55 AM) So who else is excited about the prospect of an Owens, Crisp, Dye OF next year? I honestly would be excited about adding Crisp to our OF. However, the OF threesome you mention is certainly not one to get very excited about. I would hope that if we were to add Crisp, we would also look to add a big bat like Andruw Jones. Would you be excited about an OF of Crisp, Jones, Dye? I would....

QUOTE(chisox2334 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 06:44 AM) Cowely sources have been wrong last yr. Going through the whole buerhle about to sign to buerhle souces saying it was dead. I love the part where says trade crede to rockies for taveras when atkins is in colordao And this isn't even mentioning the fact that they also have Ian Stewart as well (although now they are considering moving him to 2b to replace Matsui).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 11:02 PM) What exactly is a "solid" OBP? .320? .330? A solid AVG? .265? Covelli has been a terrible offensive player over the past 2 seasons. He's also been injured. He didn't suddenly lose all his talent over the last two years While he isn't the #1 guy we need, he could certainly be the #2 guy we need. I'm pushing for Andruw and Covelli. If not possible, I'll take Fukodome and Covelli or Corey Patterson.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 03:42 PM) Mark Buehrle's no-hitter says hi. I know you typed that in green, but honestly, there is a fair point there. It will be interesting to see if Prior can learn how to pitch without that amazing stuff.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 03:13 PM) Dodgers never even met with Hunter. Ned and Joe want Rowand. The Dodgers were actually scheduled to meet with Hunter this past weekend. The Angels precluded that from happening with their inflated offer.

QUOTE(PorkChopExpress @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 02:48 PM) He is choice 1B for any of the teams looking to sign him. They all wanted Hunter first. He didn't win a World Series and cult hero status with any other teams.

QUOTE(PorkChopExpress @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) I'm all for it as I agree that he will bounce back. But it will be tough to convince the Cubs to trade him to us due to the PR issues that could arise if he does well for us. Although they did trade Garland to us for Karchner so I may be wrong. Jon Garland, while a high draft choice and solid prospect, was not considered to be "the Messiah" by Cubs fans everywhere. While nearly all Cubs fans will admit that Prior is little more than a high-upside reclamation project, trading him to the White Sox (and any subsequent possibility for success on the South Side) would be an extremely unpopular move amongst that fanbase. I think the Sox' offer for Prior would have to blow away all others (think John Danks or Josh Fields) for the Cubs FO to consider dealing him here.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 01:18 PM) wonder how Rowand feels about being choice "1B" I agree. I think he ends up in Dodger blue, unless of course we match their offer, which is unlikely. I think our options have been reduced to Andruw Jones on a big contract (5/80), a trade for MCab or Crawford, or some combination of Crisp (acquired in trade from Boston) and Patterson/Fukodome.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 01:12 PM) I think some place like Texas or maybe Seattle, maybe even Toronto or Baltimore, someone who needs a starting pitcher, can afford to spend a little more money, and who if nothing else would be happy just to get the picks if he turned his career around and then walked might do it. I'd say though that we seem like we have enough reclamation projects in our rotation with Contreras and Floyd there right now. Adding in Prior instead of Danks or Floyd just leaves us right where we were, except with more salary. Absolutely but it adds a dimension of a much higher ceiling to the mix. I'm fairly confident that Danks/Floyd will ever reach the level Prior might still be capable of. There is a difference between a group of projects that may turn in to solid #2 or 3's and a group of projects that contains a guy who could possibly be a solid #1. That said, I refuse to believe Prior will ever be a White Sox unless signed on the open market or acquired from a different team after his time with Cubs is over.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 12:57 PM) Honestly no. For 2 reasons. 1...I have no urge to give up any sort of talent for a pitcher who I don't think will ever throw more than 50 innings in a season again, and 2., I have even less of an urge to give Mark Prior $3 million than I do to trade Dubee or one of those other class A guys for him. Let someone else give up something useful for him. If the Cubs offer Prior for Contreras straight up I might take it as a salary dump, but that's it. I would be 100% in favor of going after him except for the fact that the Cubs would simply never deal him to us. The potential PR risks would be too great for them to do so. If they do trade him, I would think he'd end up in the American League somewhere, but not with us.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 27, 2007 -> 02:31 AM) Nah, it's just that Phillips and Broadway are pretty much non-factors, and Sweeney's value is probably at the level just below the lowest it can go (meaning one more bad/mediocre season in AAA and it's at about the bottom); Fields and Gio would never get in a million years get a top 5 hitter in the game. The problem with the premise you are using is that it is based on the fact that the Marlins will get "equal value" for MCab. You aren't taking into consideration the fact that there has to be someone will to actually trade these players away. As if the Marlins can go to the bank and trade in Miguel for equal parts in younger players. As if it were gold for cash. But it doesn't work that way. 1) Teams recognize that the time is approaching when the Marlins can no longer afford to pay Cabrera what an arbiter will decide he is owed ($12-14 million this year? $15-17 million next year?); 2) Prospects are more valuable now than perhaps they have ever been. No one but Schulerholz has really shown the sack to move valuable prospects in the last year; 3) There are a limited number of teams in need of Cabrera/or with the ability to obtain Cabrera (because of financial constraints or the need for him on the field, whether it be 3b or LF); Someone has to be willing to give the Marlins what they want in return for Cabrera right now. Simply because many of us seem to think MCabrera is worth 2-3 "A-level" prospects doesn't mean the Dodgers, Angels, Yankees or Red Sox do. The fact is, if Fields/Danks/Sweeney is better than what the Angels offer (reportedly Kendrick/Mathis/Willits) is, or the Dodgers offer, it doesn't matter if what we offer should get Cabrera. Because it very likely could get him. For those who doubt whether the White Sox could compete with an offer from the Angels, read this article, especially the following excerpt: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels...3&cset=true "But if the Angels are going to trade two young pitchers to the Marlins, they are reluctant to include Kendrick and Mathis in a package for Cabrera, who has averaged 31 home runs and 115 runs batted in for the last four seasons." "And if they have to give up Kendrick, whom many project as a .320 hitter with 25-homer potential, along with a young pitcher or two, they are reluctant to part with one of their top two prospects, Adenhart or Wood."

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 26, 2007 -> 04:25 PM) I feel I am doing that. Quite frankly, Broadway and Phillips have virtually no value at all, especially in a trade for a player the caliber of Miguel Cabrera, Gio Gonzalez, talented as he is, has question marks about both his health, size, and ability to limit home runs in a ballpark that is conducive for home runs, Sweeney just repeated AAA in a hitter's park and put up an OPS of .746 in an injury plagued year, and Fields hit .240 and was on pace for 200 strikeouts while putting up a league average OPS. The Marlins would not consider it. Now, the Angels offer you proposed - Kendrick, Willits, and Mathis - is a little better because Kendrick and Willits have both had success at the MLB level and Mathis is a solid catching prospect, but I really doubt the Marlins deal him without getting some stud pitching too; that just seems to be the way they operate. The Sox will have to include DLS and possibly Danks as well, because Miguel Cabrera is an absolute stud and the Marlins know it. I won't argue with you in regards to Kendrick- he's going to be a very, very good player. Willits and Mathis on the other hand....I think you see them as more valuable just because you don't see them much. Do you realize Reggie Willits will be 27 on May 30 next season? He had ZERO home runs in 430 at bats last year. He has a grand total of 14 home runs in nearly 1600 minor league at bats. Certainly, he has a knack for getting on base- no one will argue that, but he projects as nothing more than a journeyman player for the remainder of his career, unless you're seeing something there that I am not. Meanwhile, you dismiss Sweeney who is nearly four years younger than Willits (about 45 months to be exact). While he hasn't shown the progress many of us thought he would after the giant steps he appeared to be making early, Sweeney has shown more power than Willits despite a wrist injury that has been slowing him down. When Willits was Sweeney's age, he was in A ball. Just keep that in mind when comparing the two... And Mathis? He has an OPS barely over .600 in his major league career. While his career minor league numbers are impressive (.793 OPS for a catcher), if he was one of our prospects many would be proclaiming bust and that he wasn't "much of a prospect anymore." As for Fields, you can talk about the k's all you want, the .244 BA, the .788 OPS for a CI, his low walk rate, etc, but anyway you slice it, a .480 SLG in your first year in the big leagues is pretty impressive. Heck, Chris Young's OBP, SLG, and therefore OPS numbers were lower than Fields' and yet we don't ever stop moaning about that deal around here... And Gio...when are the durability questions going to start to subside with this kid? Has he ever been significantly injured yet in his minor league career? And since when does a guy who k's 185 in 150IP with a better than 3:1 k/BB ratio not equal a very solid prospect, especially considering he just turned 22? And why is Nick Adenhart, who is admittedly 11 months younger but whose numbers weren't nearly as dominant a stud prospect (116 k's in 153 IP and less than a 2:1 k/BB ratio)? I just don't understand that. Once again, If the Dodgers and Angels and Yankees and Mets WANT to outbid us for Cabrera or Crawford or Santana or whomever, they absolutely will do so. However, there are no indications that they will do so yet. And simply because a prospect or two of theirs happen to be in their farm systems does not suddenly make them more valuable by default. We've got some pretty decent trading chips ourselves all the sudden.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 26, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) You're assuming that the Angels actually make that offer. The reason people keep calling us a dark horse is this; if any of these teams actually make the offer they could make, we'll lose. We make an offer that is fair from us and is the best we can do. But these teams have gone insane in holding onto their prospects come Hell or High Water, and if they keep that up, then we might have a chance. If the Halos decide that no more than 1 of Wood, Kendrick, Adenhart, Mathis, or Willits can go, or if the Dodgers say only 1 of their guys can go because the rest are untouchable, or if the Yankees won't put up Hughes or Joba or Tabata, then we might slip in because of other teams' stupidity. I am assuming that is the offer made otherwise MCab would probably already be an Angel. It's fairly clear they don't want to move Adenhart as part of a package which includes Kendrick. I fully agree with your point though.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 26, 2007 -> 04:03 PM) What would Florida do with Kendrick? He's a solid player and all, but they have Uggla already. If given the choice between Kendrick and Fields, the Marlins probably would prefer Fields as they have no real need for Kendrick unless they plan on dealing Uggla. If the Angels are not offering any pitching, I think the Sox could definitely put a more tempting offer on the table. Well, apparently they are willing to deal Uggla. I think they figure they'll deal with Uggla later if they were to acquire Kendrick. But I agree, I think the Sox are perfectly capable of making a very competitive offer. I'm not saying the Sox system is even close to that of the Angels or Dodgers' systems, but they just may be more willing to give away young prospects than either of the two LA teams.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Nov 26, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) better. How? Why? There are two prevailing attitudes around here that are somewhat bothersome. One is that our prospects are worth far more than they are. The other is that they are worth far less than they are. What is needed are more posters who espouse the viewpoint in the middle- their true value.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 26, 2007 -> 03:29 PM) There's only about 1.5 good young players in that proposal. The other 3 are just filler really. And what do you consider the Angels offer of Kendrick/Willits/Mathis?

QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Nov 26, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) couldnt he get 50-60 games as a backup to AJ and a sub for Thome versus LHP? Hah, nice avatar...I actually have this t-shirt...

Not sure if this has been posted yet.... http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al...-decision_N.htm White Sox had inside track Hunter, 32, was certain last week he was signing with the Chicago White Sox. They floored him with their sales pitch, including a video with designated hitter Jim Thome and Chicago Bulls center Ben Wallace imploring him to come. White Sox general manager Kenny Williams told Hunter he would improve the team's speed, vowing to trade for Angels shortstop Orlando Cabrera. When he did several days later, Williams left him a text message. "We got Cabrera. You're next." "I love Kenny's aggressiveness," Hunter said. "I knew he would do whatever it'd take to be a World Series team, and he showed that." Hunter's options were similar. The White Sox offered $75 million over five years. The Texas Rangers proposed a five-year, $73 million contract with an option. The Kansas City Royals came in with a five-year, $70 million proposal, with the promise they would go higher. The Twins had offered a three-year, $45 million proposal in September. "I was sure I was going to Chicago," Hunter said. "It was going to be strange, because those guys were always the enemy. I just wanted to hear what the Dodgers were going to do. I was supposed to fly out Sunday to L.A. and meet (manager) Joe Torre and the Dodgers." The Angels made sure the trip was canceled. So was Hunter's marketing video where the White Sox had him dressed as Spider-Man climbing the outfield walls in Chicago. "Tell Torii I want all of that stuff back," Williams said, softly chuckling. "Even though we came out on the short end, I have the greatest respect for Larry and Torii. They were honest throughout this whole thing. "It just bothers me that Anaheim could come in at the last second and blow the market away."

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Nov 24, 2007 -> 07:35 PM) Sold! You honestly don't think that is a better deal than Willits/Mathis/Kendrick? Kendrick is the best player in either offer- and we can't change that- but Fields is no slouch himself, and I think those other pieces are far more valuable than Mathis/Willits....enough to make up for the difference between Kendrick and Fields and then some.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Nov 24, 2007 -> 07:31 PM) Because of the way Boras operates, I highly doubt the Sox will sign Jones. Even if KW were to pick up the phone right now and tell Boras he's offering Jones 16M per year for six years (which would be overpaying by too much for Jones), Boras still would not advise Jones to sign right away. Boras would take that offer around to other GM's and stall for time, stringing KW along until Rowand signs somewhere. Then, when Jones is the only CF free agent left on the market, he'll demand a contract that beats what Hunter got. Some other GM will be foolish enough to pay it. By then the Sox are way behind on making other deals to trade for what they need. KW should offer Rowand $75M for 6 years and see if he can get the deal done right away. Of course Boras will try to do that. But if you called up and offered 5/80, that the offer was good for 48 hours, I think they would at least consider it.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 24, 2007 -> 07:21 PM) With what exactly? Fields/Gio/DLS/Anderson Fields/Danks/DLS/Anderson

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 24, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) Tampa would laugh at that trade offer. They probably want something similar to what the Marlins are going to get from the Angels for Miguel Cabrera. The Marlins are likely to get Kendrick, Mathis, Willits, and Ardenhart. Why in the world would Tampa want Uribe, an average pitching prospect in Danks, and a fading prospect in Sweeney? Well, to clarify, the Angels apparently only want to move Mathis, Kendrick, and Willits. They are balking at including Adenhart. If the Angels would have been willing to include Adenhart, the deal would be done right now. If the Marlins were willing to do that deal without Adenhart, the deal would be done right now. I think the Sox are capable of beating that offer if they'd like.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) Im sorry but how can the White Sox be cheap when they have a payroll in the upper half of all baseball teams? There is a difference between being cheap and being prudent. I was getting nervous about Hunter being on the Sox and having some of those years be 13 mil, let alone 15. The risk was to high in my opinion, and there was almost no way to get the necessary reward. The thing with Mariotti is, he wants to compare the White Sox to the Dodgers, Angels, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs because we are the other major market team...but if you look at those teams' attendance figures compared to ours, they dwarf us. We simply cannot have the payroll those teams are capable of having.

Does 5/$75 interest Jones at this point?