JUSTgottaBELIEVE

When has this franchise ever signed a tier 2 guy? I’m talking players of the caliber of JDM, Grandal, Bumgarner, etc. Considering the largest free agent signing in franchise history is Jose Abreu, I would say very few and I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say they tried a few years ago (Melky and LaRoche were not tier 2 guys, Robertson was and I would say he lived up to his contract).

I don’t see anyone advocating the Sox sign 3 Melky Cabrera types this offseason. That would be like bringing in Yasiel Puig, Travis d’Arnaud, and Edwin Encarnacion as the three primary FA additions. They should and will land better players than that tier.

Yes, that’s what I said. Again, plenty of very good tier 2 free agents available the next couple winters and the Sox should continue to find ways to extend their young superstars to lengthen their contention window.

Every FA this winter minus Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon is a realistic target. There are plenty of very good players available to spend the money on, plus I’m still advocating extending Moncada into 2027/2028 for big $$$. I’ve been beating on that drum since April before his breakout 2019 season.

How was Machado a 5-6 WAR player? He produced 30 fWAR over his first 6.5 seasons (yes I know 2014 was injury shortened but I’m not discounting one injury over a 6.5 year span since they are part of the game). That’s an average of 4.6 fWAR per season, not including his 3.1 from 2019. So he was already a 4-5 WAR player with downside to worse than that when considering the character flaws that were readily apparent heading into last offseason. I would be shocked if he produces more than 27 fWAR (3 per season) over the remaining 9 years of his contract.

But that’s why the thread is titled “a realistic offseason.” Those top guys aren’t realistic for this franchise so no sense in expending any energy towards it.

I wonder if the same people saying Moustakas is a poor fit for the next couple years are the same people that said Machado was a great fit last winter for the next decade? Because that would be odd.

If Grandal is the stud you’re making him out to be they would have found a place for him on the roster. Rather than spending similar money for an injury prone AJ Pollock ($60M guaranteed), they could have easily traded one or both of their catching prospects for a younger, better, healthier, cost controlled version of Pollock to provide outfield help.

If he was a true 4-5 WAR talent as fangraphs portrays, why wasn’t he offered considerably more money than AJ Pollock (also rejected QO, extensive injury history, and signed by the same team that let Grandal walk)?

The beginning of the end for the Astros started last weekend with the Taubman incident. Karma is a b****. Houston has $150M committed to payroll next season and that doesn’t even include arb eligible players like Correa or resigning Cole. They have big money tied up in Grienke and Verlander for several years, both of whom could hit a Lester wall at any moment.

The question is...is Grandal truly a top option at the position worthy of significant years and dollars? Based on how other teams responded to his availability last winter I’d say the answer is no. Now If he’s willing to sign for 3/$40M or something along those lines sure bring him in but I think it would be a mistake to give him more than 3 years or more than ~$14M AAV over several years. I know many have but I also haven’t given up on Collins yet as the starting catcher from 2021 onward.

Yes

True stud catchers very rarely hit the open market in their prime. The top catchers of the past couple decades have all been extended before they hit free agency - Joe Mauer, Yadier Molina, Buster Posney, Brian McCann, Jorge Posada. Why would the Dodgers not extend Grandal if he’s truly a top 2 catcher in baseball? Why wouldn’t they bring him back at a cost equal to or greater than the relatively minimal offer by the Brewers (and not lose a draft pick in the process)? Why would teams be so deterred about signing a top 2 catcher in baseball because of a QO but look past the QO attachment quite easily for many other high profile free agents in recent years? It just doesn’t add up.

And THIS is a major red flag to me regarding Grandal. Also, if he’s as good as metrics seem to portray, why could he only muster a 1 year $16M deal (with 2nd year mutual option) last winter? That confirms to me that the rest of the league is just as skeptical of the guy as me.

Why?

Is Collins still on the team?

My offseason wish list: -Resign Jose Abreu (this is a given) -Sign JDM -Sign Madison Bumgarner -Sign Rich Hill -Trade for Cole Kalhoun (or sign if he hits FA) Tall task but I’d be thrilled with an offseason like that.

You said, “It would be foolish to think he's anything more than a backup for a competitive team moving forward.” McCann is as good or better than the catchers starting for the two World Series teams so clearly your statement is incorrect.

And the dude starting for the Astros was traded for nothing TWICE THIS SEASON. The other Nationals catcher besides after thought Kurt Suzuki, Yan Gomes, has been very ordinary since 2015 and yet has been the “starting” catcher for playoff teams every year since 2016.

Imo, Machado was the most overrated free agent player on this site last winter. This winter it is Grandal. Buyer beware.

Really? Have you seen the starting catchers for the two World Series teams?

Consider this...perhaps the White Sox view JDM as more than a DH and viable RF option. JDM played 41 games in the outfield this past season despite playing for a team with three average to well above average OF defenders. I’m not saying he’s a great option for RF but if he OPS close to 1.000 again, he will be their best available option for RF despite poor defensive metrics.

JDM for sure

I remember two months ago when some posters were like the Dodgers don’t even need Colome, he’d be lucky to be their 7th inning guy and wouldn’t see high leverage situations on that team or most playoff teams. He definitely wouldn’t setup over a guy like Joe Kelly! Welp...

They still need a RF even after they sign JDM. Signing JDM does not rule out an Avi signing.