JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Underrating him? I said he’s terrific but Cashman is still GOAT. How can anyone argue that? 4 World Series championships, 12 AL East titles and 17 postseason appearances in 21 years.

And yes, Theo is a terrific GM/President but you can’t compare him to Hahn because they are operating with a completely different set of resources at their disposal. In a sport with no hard cap, these types of comparisons simply cannot be made. It’s apples and oranges. Theo should be compared against the likes of Dombrowski, Cashman, Friedman, etc. Cashman is still GOAT in the modern era.

I would never blast the Chapman trade because it led to a ring and at the end of the day a successful season = winning a ring. Glad to see you’ve come around!

Again, if he did everything else average I would tend to agree but from all reports he’s terrific defensively, good on the base paths, and has a strong IQ. 35 year old Ian Kinsler produced 2.3 fWAR last season with a .681 OPS. I don’t see why Madrigal can’t do at least that based on his profile.

Ah gotcha. Seems like the general board consensus is that we are.

“When should we start to worry about Robert’s lack of power?” ?

I just don’t understand how people can say that the organization is poor in developing young, raw talent (which it is) but then be upset when they pass on players that are exactly that. Kelenic fit that category last year. Witt jr and Abrams this year. If they had a better development team then I’d want them taking chances on those high risk plays as well but they don’t. It is what it is.

Really? Because it hasn’t seemed so easy in recent years for the Sox. And few opportunities? Well, they’ve got an even better opportunity this June and perhaps next June as well. They can go Abrams or Witt but when they bust because the Sox have a difficult time developing those types of high school players, what then? High ceiling is great and all if they are able to help them achieve those heights. Their track record in that regard isn’t great.

When was the last time the Sox got a consistent 2-3 fWAR player at any position besides Abreu?

Sure, .340 OBP plus .340 slugging with great defense and base running is a 2.5-3.0 fWAR player at 2b

I’m not worried about his power at all as long as he hits close to .300 with an OBP around .350

I regard the Packers as a successful organization because they have won 13 league championships, not because they have X number of playoff appearances. The White Sox are in no way a successful organization. 3 champisonships in 125 years is terrible. My only point was that I simply cannot call two franchises that have yet to win a championship “successful.” It seems you can and I suppose we have differing definitions of successful.

As a Packers fan, anything short of a Super Bowl ring is an unsuccessful season in my eyes. This same standard applies to the White Sox. I didn’t consider 2008 a success because they made the playoffs and lost in the first round. During my fandom, 2005 has been the only truly successful season for the White Sox by this definition. The Brewers and Rays have yet to win a title bad luck or not.

I wouldn’t consider the Rays or Brewers “successful” organizations. Certainly not in the same light as the Cardinals or even close to it. The Rays have been very competitive over the years but how many rings have they won? How many rings do the Brewers have? Success is ultimately measured by winning championships, not division titles or wild card appearances.

If you truly believe that then why wouldn’t JR authorize Kenny Hahn to sign one of Machado or Harper? They knew the number it would take but weren’t authorized to guarantee a contract at that level. It was obvious Kenny Hahn were covering for JR after the Machado signing because it’s clear JR wouldn’t allow them to guarantee $300M+. So they spun the BS of their offer being better etc etc. It’s all a cover for JR’s unwillingness to spend.

The Rays are the exception, not the rule. The entire league should be embarrassed by what that organization is able to accomplish with far less resources. The Cardinals are always in the top half of the league by payroll. This current version of the Brewers haven’t won anything yet other than a division title. Yes, they appear to be on the rise after last year’s performance but they also had a head start on the Sox in their rebuild. If the Sox are still losing 85+ games in 2021, then that will be highly concerning. Until then, I continue to look for slivers or hope and focus on the positive developments.

you really like to mislead without telling the whole story don’t you? Since Hahn assumed the GM role prior to the 2013 season, the team’s opening day payroll has ranked #20 on average. That’s largely inflated by his first year at the helm as you mentioned #8 back in 2013.

Abreu is the best free agent signing in White Sox history and Kenny was the GM for the franchise’s first title in 88 years. Does that mean they also get a pass? Look, I’m not saying they’ve done a great job but they are also working with a deck stacked against them (payroll constraints) and even the best of the best (Theo right?) make some truly awful FA signings. The difference is terrible signings like Chatwood and Darvish can be swept under the rug and absorbed in a top 8 MLB payroll whereas that doesn’t happen when you are running a payroll in the bottom third of the league.

I wonder what a similar evaluation would look like with the Cubs since Theo took over? Lester certainly helps, much like Abreu did here, but Heyward, Chatwood, Darvish would all bring down the production rates significantly. Moral of the story? Hahn hasn’t been good with free agent signings overall but his bad signings are greatly magnified because he is consistently working with low payrolls.

I’ve found it’s the only way to live a happy life, for me at least!

Isn’t $9.5M/WAR pretty much exactly in line with or just a bit worse than league averages? That’s interesting.

Not sure where to start with this one. Moncada has looked great overall, not just good. Gio had one great start, one awful start. Rodon has been very good overall despite a bad outing vs the Rays. Colome and Herrera have a combined 2.45 ERA across 11 innings. Agree that TA has been awesome and Lopez has been terrible. That doesn’t seem like a terrible start to the season to me from an individual player performance perspective.

Yea, I disagree. 2.5 years isn’t exactly what I would consider a proven track record in the way you are framing it to be. If Rodon maintains an ERA in the low 3’s with strong peripherals while proving he’s healthy, he’ll be worth what Shark was worth in 2014, at least. Again, extra year of control, 3 years younger, and higher ceiling.

Tucker and Alvarez please ?

Wouldn’t the fact that he worked out of the bullpen for half his MLB career prior to the trade kind of work against the superior track record as a starter argument?