JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Clearly, split as to whether they want to spend the money on him or not. The Dan Clark stuff is BS. No one knows where this guy is headed yet. My money is on Philly.

I don’t think the Sox were in a position to offload 2 or 3 top 100 prospects in a trade last winter for someone that hits FA after the 2022 season. Heck, I don’t think they are in the position to do that now either. I don’t think the WS window opens until 2021 personally. Maybe 2020 if everything goes right but that’s probably optimistic with the number of questions surrounding the starting rotation. I would consider that type of trade next winter or the following winter but not sooner. At least with the way the team is currently constructed. Now if they sign Harper or Machado maybe that changes their outlook but until then I’m not keen on unloading that type of depth when they still have so many holes to fill.

EE was going into his age 34 season. Not what I would consider his prime years. Indians, like the WS, typically avoid signing big free agents (because they are generally overpaid and present poor value especially for lower budget teams). They could have easily packaged a couple of their prospects for a major outfield upgrade with a modest increase in payroll. Like I said, thankfully they didn’t put together a package for Yelich last winter. They could have easily beat the Brewers package if they wanted.

They’d have been much better off moving Chisenhall to a DH/utility man role than sign EE after the 2016 season. Like you said he’s a solid hitter but he’s dreadful in RF. Always easier to fill the DH spot than every day position players, especially with average to plus defenders. Just look at the White Sox ? That’s why I’d never spend big money for a full time DH after the Dunn debacle unless the guy is an elite hitter in his prime like JDM.

How else would you describe the Indians CF and RF situation the past couple years? When you are giving 33/34 yo Melky Cabrera serious playing time after he’s spent spring training and part of the first half of the season at home, I’d say that’s a pretty dire situation. How can anyone that watched the 2016 World Series not think RF was a black hole for them? Like I said one might be able to argue that they thought they could cover CF between Zimmer and others but you’re telling me they were better off upgrading DH than RF? Sorry, I just don’t buy that. Thank god they didn’t trade for Yelich. He would have been a perfect fit.

Looks like just over $50MM per baseball reference. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/new-york-yankees-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

If the Sox have a 90 win core but a relative black hole in CF, RF, or 3b but instead elected to squeeze an additional win out of the DH position, I’d be really upset.

Just because they’ve been terrible with free agent signings in the past doesn’t mean I’d be happy with that type of production from a guy accounting for ~30% of the total team payroll. You’re saying this now but you wouldn’t be happy either. That’s basically Jose Abreu production from 2014-2017 but at a cost of $100M more.

I understand that if they weren’t willing to eat some money to move him but their OF, particularly CF and RF, have been a black hole for several years now. I imagine ~$17M/ year would have been better spent upgrading those positions than DH. They were relying on a young unproven player in Zimmer to man CF (probably not the best idea when you are all in) and an odd collection of guys in RF. It was painful watching Chisenhall “play” RF in the World Series.

Not in hindsight. The Indians have had glaring holes in the outfield and at 2b/3b (wherever JR wasn’t playing) since 2016. They would have been much better served upgrading those positions than DH. That’s not hindsight. Anyone that watched the 2016 World Series could recognize those glaring holes, ones that likely cost them the title.

You have low expectations I suppose. I’d be very disappointed if Harper averaged 3.5 fWAR over the next four years.

Not arguing their success. They’ve been great. Simply saying that even strong FO’s make mistakes, which I stand by my statement that signing Edwin was a mistake for that particular team because I believe their limited financial resources could have been better allocated to improve other areas of weakness.

Let me say it a different way since the Sox have similar budgetary constraints as the Indians, generally speaking. When the Sox sign Harper, will you be satisfied if he puts up 14 fWAR at a cost of $140M over the next 4 years?

For a team with the budgetary constraints of the Indians they needed more. Not every situation is comparable. When you are operating with a budget in the low to mid $100M it’s far different than a budget like the cubs or Red Sox where sure ~1 fWAR for $10M on a free agent signing is acceptable.

3.3 fWAR for $33.5M over two years? I can think of a better way for the Sox to allocate their resources.

Ah my mistake. Time flies, was thinking they signed him last winter. Either way, despite the homers he was old and on the decline. He’s been a disappointment in Cleveland, I know that much.

Few years later? They just signed him last winter. And yes, most agreed it was an overpay at the time of the signing as all signs pointed towards Edwin having a very limited market. No one would be defending that signing if it was the Sox instead of the Indians that made the signing...

Nah. It was a mistake. No doubt about it. They admitted as much when they traded him to bring back an also declining and overpaid Carlos Santana.

The smarter ones (Indians) were also the ones to sign these guys in the first place...even the smart guys makes mistakes. Indians are still stuck with Santana and his remaining salary though. No one’s going to lose sleep over one year of Alonso at around $10M.

All I know is that the idea of the Cubs being in play for Harper is a great way for Boras to drive up the WS offer. I still think the WS are the favorite to land Harper. If he was set on either the Dodgers or Cubs he would have either (1) signed by now or (2) there would be more activity and moving pieces involving those clubs (I’m not convinced the Dodgers view OF as their greatest area of need and best use of resources). I’ll be getting together with one of my buddies that works for the Sox marketing department on NYE. I’ll be curious to see what his thoughts are on the entire situation.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2018/12/cubs-rumors-heyward-to-giants-harper-watch/ Rock Raines’ source = Bruce Levine or Charles the Cat?? jk, I think...

I thought so too, which is why I don’t understand the real tax benefit to trading Heyward if the Cubs are retaining a large amount of the remaining money or taking on large contracts like Shark and Melancon. I’d be shocked if the Cubs blew past the second luxury tax threshold of $226M. Their current projected team payroll is just under $210M per baseball reference.

So if the cubs eat $10MM a year of Heyward’s contract, does that $10MM count towards the luxury tax payroll? I know you are saying the Cubs aren’t concerned about the tax but I’m sure every organization is to some degree. Just trying to understand how the tax works for retained salaries such as that. I honestly don’t know and not sure how much of a benefit it would be to deal a guy but retain a large percetange of his remaining contract.

Wouldn’t paying half count against the luxury tax payroll amount or does that money just disappear completely? Also, taking on Melancon’s $14M per year doesn’t help the Cubs much over the next two years when they are already pushing 2018 Red Sox payroll levels.

How do we know the Giants would be willing to take on the remaining $106M even if Schwarber was included?