JUSTgottaBELIEVE

No doubt. But that’s the predicament for mid market teams. No to very little margin for error when signing to mid to high end free agents. The reds basically couldn’t afford a single miss whereas the Dodgers or Yankees just brush off a BAILEY signing like its nothing.

There are so many holes on this roster right now that finding a fit for Harper is my last concern. The current OF situation is a far bigger mess than the infield situation. Yes, I understand that they have a dozen OF prospects in the minors but that can be used as trade currency to fill other holes like the starting rotation, which is also a mess.

Oh yea, I’m all for signing Harper. That’s how you change the perception. I am avoiding Manny like the plague though. That’s my opinion, not trying to convince anyone to agree with me. I’m also pointing that not all is lost if they miss out on these guys as Chisoxfn stated and in some ways may actually be a blessing in disguise for a mid market franchise like the Sox.

I’m not following you here? People are saying it would take $40-42MM AAV for 8-10 years for the Sox to sign Machado. How is that comparable to $9MM for one year of Alonso?

I’ve said it for over a year now. The Sox model is the Astros and Royals, not Cubs. I would welcome a Harper signing though just because it would put the Sox on the map. However I could also see his contract hamstringing the Sox for years to come.

That’s debatable with the Cubs playing across town. I do agree that Harper would be a great signing for the reason you mention. Manny doesn’t have that same type of impact, though, which is why I’m hoping the Sox pass on him.

Votto’s $225M extension hamstrung the Reds for a decade.

That’s what people are failing to recognize. A mega deal for a mid market team is a far greater risk than for a team like the Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. Mid market teams that sign guys to mega deals rarely succeed even when said player is a stud (Belle - WS, Arod - Rangers, Cano - Mariners, Votto - Reds, Stanton - Marlins, etc)

Based on the 20% tariff thrown out on these threads, is he really worth $42MM AAV? Hard pass for me.

Clearly, split as to whether they want to spend the money on him or not. The Dan Clark stuff is BS. No one knows where this guy is headed yet. My money is on Philly.

I don’t think the Sox were in a position to offload 2 or 3 top 100 prospects in a trade last winter for someone that hits FA after the 2022 season. Heck, I don’t think they are in the position to do that now either. I don’t think the WS window opens until 2021 personally. Maybe 2020 if everything goes right but that’s probably optimistic with the number of questions surrounding the starting rotation. I would consider that type of trade next winter or the following winter but not sooner. At least with the way the team is currently constructed. Now if they sign Harper or Machado maybe that changes their outlook but until then I’m not keen on unloading that type of depth when they still have so many holes to fill.

EE was going into his age 34 season. Not what I would consider his prime years. Indians, like the WS, typically avoid signing big free agents (because they are generally overpaid and present poor value especially for lower budget teams). They could have easily packaged a couple of their prospects for a major outfield upgrade with a modest increase in payroll. Like I said, thankfully they didn’t put together a package for Yelich last winter. They could have easily beat the Brewers package if they wanted.

They’d have been much better off moving Chisenhall to a DH/utility man role than sign EE after the 2016 season. Like you said he’s a solid hitter but he’s dreadful in RF. Always easier to fill the DH spot than every day position players, especially with average to plus defenders. Just look at the White Sox ? That’s why I’d never spend big money for a full time DH after the Dunn debacle unless the guy is an elite hitter in his prime like JDM.

How else would you describe the Indians CF and RF situation the past couple years? When you are giving 33/34 yo Melky Cabrera serious playing time after he’s spent spring training and part of the first half of the season at home, I’d say that’s a pretty dire situation. How can anyone that watched the 2016 World Series not think RF was a black hole for them? Like I said one might be able to argue that they thought they could cover CF between Zimmer and others but you’re telling me they were better off upgrading DH than RF? Sorry, I just don’t buy that. Thank god they didn’t trade for Yelich. He would have been a perfect fit.

Looks like just over $50MM per baseball reference. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/new-york-yankees-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

If the Sox have a 90 win core but a relative black hole in CF, RF, or 3b but instead elected to squeeze an additional win out of the DH position, I’d be really upset.

Just because they’ve been terrible with free agent signings in the past doesn’t mean I’d be happy with that type of production from a guy accounting for ~30% of the total team payroll. You’re saying this now but you wouldn’t be happy either. That’s basically Jose Abreu production from 2014-2017 but at a cost of $100M more.

I understand that if they weren’t willing to eat some money to move him but their OF, particularly CF and RF, have been a black hole for several years now. I imagine ~$17M/ year would have been better spent upgrading those positions than DH. They were relying on a young unproven player in Zimmer to man CF (probably not the best idea when you are all in) and an odd collection of guys in RF. It was painful watching Chisenhall “play” RF in the World Series.

Not in hindsight. The Indians have had glaring holes in the outfield and at 2b/3b (wherever JR wasn’t playing) since 2016. They would have been much better served upgrading those positions than DH. That’s not hindsight. Anyone that watched the 2016 World Series could recognize those glaring holes, ones that likely cost them the title.

You have low expectations I suppose. I’d be very disappointed if Harper averaged 3.5 fWAR over the next four years.

Not arguing their success. They’ve been great. Simply saying that even strong FO’s make mistakes, which I stand by my statement that signing Edwin was a mistake for that particular team because I believe their limited financial resources could have been better allocated to improve other areas of weakness.

Let me say it a different way since the Sox have similar budgetary constraints as the Indians, generally speaking. When the Sox sign Harper, will you be satisfied if he puts up 14 fWAR at a cost of $140M over the next 4 years?

For a team with the budgetary constraints of the Indians they needed more. Not every situation is comparable. When you are operating with a budget in the low to mid $100M it’s far different than a budget like the cubs or Red Sox where sure ~1 fWAR for $10M on a free agent signing is acceptable.

3.3 fWAR for $33.5M over two years? I can think of a better way for the Sox to allocate their resources.

Ah my mistake. Time flies, was thinking they signed him last winter. Either way, despite the homers he was old and on the decline. He’s been a disappointment in Cleveland, I know that much.