JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Amazing how competitive this team has looked since Fulmer was demoted and the starting rotation started to settle in.

Not impressed by either pitcher. Mize has no control today and Singer has been laying in 91-93 mph meatballs that would be crushed by better hitters. Also, is India having trouble throwing to 1b? Yips? Let a routine throw sail on him. Bailed out of an error by a very nice play by the first basemen and the announcers made a comment about India’s throws to first being an adventure of late. Took me about 30 minutes of watching that game to feel even more confident in the Madrigal selection.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1005408274278207488?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet That’s a nasty two seamer and, if he can locate that pitch consistently, he’s going to be a very successful big league pitcher.

lol

So we’ll ask again, is Dylan Covey our Jake Arrieta of this rebuild?

What if Covey turned into our Jake Arrieta? That would be both hilarious and remarkable at the same time.

Well yes and the fact that Machado is a better all around player than JD. People can trash Manny's defense at SS all they want but even a below average defender at a premium position is much more valuable than a horrendous defender at a non-premium position. Plus Manny has the ability to play SS and 3B whereas JD was barely passable as an OF only (but really he's a DH).

Seems there will be plenty of interest. I think you will surprised by the return. I can GUARANTEE he brings back considerably more than JD Martinez did last year (unless he's injured). https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/05/manny-machado-baltimore-orioles-trade-market-rumors-cubs-indians-red-sox-dodgers-mlb

But Machado is playing shortstop this year while on pace for a 9 WAR season. There is no glut of premium shortstops available in this market. I can see just about every NL contender looking for an upgrade at shortstop outside of perhaps the Cardinals and Nationals. The Orioles are going to get a haul for Machado and a DH/OF defensive liability like JD Martinez is not a good comp.

When exactly should the Orioles have traded Machado? They were an 89 win playoff team in 2016 and still trying to compete last year (can’t blame them for that). They will get more for Machado in season than they would have last winter so I don’t follow your logic that (1) they held on to him too long and (2) they will get pennies on the dollar for him (I think they will get a very nice haul this July with the way he’s playing). I think they absolutely made the right decision to let it play out until this trade deadline rather than accept a subpar package last winter.

Doubt that

Oh yeah, I could definitely see them winning 91 games after a 26-24 start type start but 100+ Wins? Nah, not again if they are still hanging around .500 at the end of this month.

Winning 22 consecutive is still more remarkable. And yea, I don’t see them ripping off a 71% winning percentage the last 100 games of this season considering the 22 game win streak was a big part of it (49-29 excluding the win streak - still great but nothing extraordinary).

Why do people continue saying this? Sanchez has been one of the few bright spots this year. To me, the pitching still needs plenty of reinforcements over the next two winters even after factoring in future contributions from prospects. That’s far and away the biggest need imo. The offense looks pretty good in the near future between Moncada, Anderson, Davidson, Sanchez, Abreu, Jimenez, Robert, Collins, etc. assuming they can keep those guys relatively healthy.

They also won 22 consecutive games in the second half. That won’t happen again.

Maybe I’m the only one but I’ve got Lubo #1 and Eloy #2

I see you guys are finally coming around to the idea of bringing in veteran relief help via free agency.....

Without a doubt. And that’s ok. On its own, it does not mean the rebuild is a “failure”.

How so? When was the last time the WS signed free agents of the caliber of guys like Keuchel, Pollock, and Kimbrel? These guys might be considered "second-tier" to the Harpers and Machados of the world but in most free agent classes these are top 5 guys in their class.

Well, I'm looking at this prospect list from 2014 and 11 of their top 20 prospects were pitchers. Oh yea, and Michael Fulmer was #20 while Jeurys Familia was listed in "others." So I'd say they had plenty of young pitching depth.... https://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/1/13/5303318/new-york-mets-top-20-prospects-for-2014

How do you define "front line." You can get Kuechel AND Kimbrel for the price of one Machado. And to me, those are bigger needs with the way Anderson, Sanchez, and Moncada are playing. I'm advocating for guys like Mosustakas and Pollock to fill out the position player holes. Those guys are in the $8-15MM AAV range most likely. I truly believe they need to spread their resources across multiple players. I look at the Astros as the example to follow for the WS.

The Mets a few years back and the Braves more recently. For reference, take a look at that Mets starting staff right now. It was the toast of the town after their WS appearance in 2015. Bunch of young flamethrowers in their low 20's under team control for years! Well, deGrom and Noah have had their share of injuries since and when healthy have been excellent; however, what happened to the rest of that staff? I would say Harvey, Matz, and Wheeler have been rather disappointing the last couple years.

Potential doesn't necessarily equate to success. There is still a lot of risk associated with pitching prospects. I'm guessing Mets fans could have compiled a similar list a few years ago equally impressive to what you have listed above. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/01/mlb-best-and-worst-starting-rotations-staff-mets-cubs-dodgers-nationals-mlb I'm sure Braves fans could compile a similar list now. Many continue to say that this team's biggest need in the future is on the position player side but as I pointed out in a different thread the infield (minus catcher) is actually a huge asset already and for the foreseeable future. Abreu, Moncada, Anderson, and Sanchez all rate is above average regulars already. I'm assuming Abreu will be extended and hold down 1B/DH for the next 5 years. Catcher is a big question mark right now. Hopefully one of Zalvala or Collins will be serviceable but they still need an above average defensive catcher in my opinion (hopefully one that can hit his weight too). The pitching staff as a whole is a mess right now. Out of the 6 names you mention with ace potential, I'd be happy if two slotted in as quality starters within the next year and for the next 5-6 years of the primary contention window. I think Rodon is trade bait as soon as he proves he's healthy. Then with the rest of the guys listed in #2/3 potential and below, you hope 1 or 2 turn into quality starters. I'd be really happy with that if they were able to fill in majority (3 or 4 slots) of the rotation with internal options. I still think you need that proven veteran though. Can never have enough quality starting pitching and relying on a bunch of young guys alone seems like a recipe for disappointment. Personally, I really like Dallas Keuchel. Should be able to get another 4-5 good years out of him before he falls off (in Cubs' terms, he'd be our Jon Lester). I view the bullpen similarly. Outside of Nate Jones, I'm not sure any of those guys on the current MLB roster will still be on the roster in 2020.

Why would you say that? The last two WS champs went outside their organization to pick up high end starters and relievers in order to win it all. In fact they still are based on their big splashes last offseason (HOU - Cole, CHC - Darvish).

Yes, that’s probably the best somewhat recent example of filling out a starting rotation with internal options but like you said the Maddux free agent acquisition was key. That’s precisely what I think the Sox will need - a veteran, high end #2/3 starter (along the lines of Keuchel/Corbin). I also don’t buy the idea that they can fill out their entire bullpen with quality options with just internal guys. At a minimum, they need a proven closer and setup guy. Playoff teams need multiple reliable relief options to win with how starters are used these days so guys like Burdi and Jones can be those 6/7/8th inning guys in addition to another dominant setup guy and a top notch closer. Eventually, perhaps a guy like Burdi grows into the closer role but I wouldn’t count on him being that guy starting next year or even 2020 for that matter. Until then, give me a Kimbrel or Allen to hold down the 9th over the next few years at least.