JUSTgottaBELIEVE

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 10:39 AM) So the argument is that Brady's larger sample size has led to a lower postseason passer rating? Rodgers has nearly a full season's worth of playoff games under his belt so it's not exactly neglible. Rodgers faces the number 2 passing defense (by opponent passer rating) this weekend so it's certainly an opportunity to make a statement. If he puts up a passer rating > 100 but they still lose because of their porous pass defense, is it Rodgers' fault? If they get past NYG, I see Rodgers putting up big numbers in Dallas and single handedly keeping them competitive in that game vs a superior opponent. Peaking at the right time. Absolutely ripped that top rated passing defense to shreds the last 2.5 quarters. Hopefully Jordy is available next Sunday. Should be a great game.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 10:04 AM) If he's going to throw out passer ratings, the number of playoffs games played definitely has something to do with it. So the argument is that Brady's larger sample size has led to a lower postseason passer rating? Rodgers has nearly a full season's worth of playoff games under his belt so it's not exactly neglible. Rodgers faces the number 2 passing defense (by opponent passer rating) this weekend so it's certainly an opportunity to make a statement. If he puts up a passer rating > 100 but they still lose because of their porous pass defense, is it Rodgers' fault? If they get past NYG, I see Rodgers putting up big numbers in Dallas and single handedly keeping them competitive in that game vs a superior opponent.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 10:33 PM) Well different guys have different aging patterns. Greg Jennings was already falling apart with the Packers. He was banged up his last season in GB but relatively healthy prior to that.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 10:11 PM) Donald Driver was a very good WR. Greg Jennings in his prime would've been good anywhere, age just caught up with him. Jordy Nelson is a good WR that plays like a great WR because of his chemistry with Rodgers. Randall Cobb is a useful NFL player, or at least has been the last few years. If you want to make an argument for Rodgers doing less than more it would be the fact that the the best RB he's ever had behind him is Ryan Grant. Donald was on the back end of his career by the time Aaron took over. His prime years were easily during Favre's tenure. Jennings absolutely sucked when he left GB. He was 29 when he left, maybe not in his prime but not exactly over the hill either. Jordy is 31 right now for reference and has been through more severe injuries up to this point than Jennings at a similar age. Outside of 2014 in which he was excellent, Cobb has been "useful" but he hasn't played the last two games and no one has missed him (Aaron hasn't either if you look at his stat line).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 09:58 PM) I'm confident Randall Cobb is pretty solid. Cobb is pretty solid but by no means an elite receiver. That was very apparent last season when Jordy went down. He's a solid slot receiver but nothing special and has really been a disappointment over the last two seasons.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 07:10 PM) They are both amazing, and both had times where the talent around them slipped and people asked whether they were on decline only to see them post another dominant year. That and their bad years are still typically top ten in league. edit: That said, Brady's longevity does matter and for last decade Brady has had a WR crew that has looked a lot like Green Bays last year. I have yet to see a former GB receiver excel outside of GB during Aaron's tenure. Same can't be said for Brady. Moss and Welker were both studs for other teams and obv Gronk would be a stud anywhere (when he's healthy). Outside of Jordy, I'm not convinced Rodgers has ever worked with an elite WR. He makes guys like Davonte Adams look like top receivers when really he's just another guy on a team like the Bears. This is another myth that Rodgers has all these great receivers while Brady has nothing. Any one happen to catch how great these stud receivers were when Scott Tolzein and Matt Flynn were starting at QB a few years ago?

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 04:01 PM) Brady choked in 2007. Patriots had their lowest scoring game of the entire season against the Giants and Brady put up a 82.5 passer rating(Eli had an 87.3). Patriots let the Giants hang around mostly because Brady couldn't get it going and eventually paid the price. Get out of here with the "should be 6/6 crap"....Brady is not even close to deserving of that title and he knows it. I also find it odd that the common perception is Brady is a terrific postseason performer while Rodgers is not. Their individual statistics say differently as Brady has a career postseason passer rating of 88 to Rodgers' 98. Rodgers better there too

Rodgers has a higher passer rating, completion %, YPA, passing TD/INT, rushing yards and rushing TD. Basically leads every individual statistical category outside of longevity stats like total passing yards, TD, etc. Barring injury, he will have the edge in those as well in time. http://m.espn.com/nfl/playerseasonstats?se...39&teamId=0 http://m.espn.com/nfl/playerseasonstats?se...30&teamId=0

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) And if Rodgers does this at 37, 38 and 39 we can talk. Please. The Tyree catch and the choke by whatever WR that was are infamous. Find me single plays in any of Brady wins to rival those two epic flukes. By your logic Garnett > Duncan. When you're great, you win even when you have no business winning. Tom Brady is a lock to win his 5th title. Keep up with your lame hypotheticals. By your logic, Terry Bradshaw = Tom Brady. You know because they have the same number of rings.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) Haha. Should be 6 for 6? So he should have won the two one score losses but he couldn't have lost the 4 one score victories. Rings matter but it's way different than the NBA, one player can only do so much. Peyton finally won a 2nd ring when he couldn't throw the ball past 15 yards. QB is the most important position on the field but even then they can only carry a team so far. Still need the other 21 starters to perform. Rodgers has been a victim of a poor Packers defense for most of his career. Only twice have the Packers had a defense that ranked in the top 10 in points allowed and one of those years Rodgers won a ring. By comparison, Brady has had a defense ranked in top 10 in points allowed 11 times over the course of his career. Brady has played on far better teams, it's no wonder he has more rings. Doesn't make him the better player though.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 02:51 PM) Not really. Brady has clearly been better the last two years and he's 6 years older. Rodgers is sick. Don't get me wrong. But Brady is damn near 40 doing what he's doing. I want to see Rodgers dominating like this at 37, 38, and 39. Ok, but over the course of their careers Rodgers has been better from a statistical standpoint and it's not that close really. I'm talking individual accomplishments, not team.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) That means Belicheck is a better GM than Thompson and is able to assemble a better team around him, it doesn't make Rodgers clearly better than Brady Let's say the two switch teams. Does Brady put up better numbers than Rodgers on the Packers and vice versa does Rodgers put up worse numbers than Brady on the Patriots? Rodgers is already the highest rated passer in NFL history by a substantial margin (and this doesn't even account for his well above average rushing abilities). Statistically speaking from an individual standpoint, he's in a league of his own.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) Unless the plan is to keep him until he retires, which could be possible, I think the Sox have to trade Abreu before the season starts. If they dump Frazier and Melky, there is zero motivation for the opposition to ever throw him a strike. Unless he accepts that he is going to walk 150 times, his numbers are going to drop because he is going to to swinging at a lot of crap. Agree but I'm starting to think they won't trade Frazier or Melky until the July 31 trade deadline, if at all.

It's so hard to be patient! If nothing happens this week, I wouldn't expect any trades to happen (if there are any trades at all) until after the holidays.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:38 AM) You do not just trade Sale and Eaton and call it an offseason, that would run counter to performing an impactful rebuild Trading Eaton and Sale effectively punts on the next two seasons, so why keep players around any longer than they need to be? I will not trade them for less value than they are worth, but by the deadline in 2017 you will see pretty much every tradeable asset moved I completely agree that they should be moved but I don't see how it's the certainty that everyone here is proclaiming. There is a very real possibility that they enter the season with Q, Frazier, Abreu, etc. still on the roster. Until proven otherwise, it's more likely that they remain on the OD roster than don't.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Of course, as currently constructed we are not THAT bad But, we all know that guys like Quintana/Robertson/FRazier/etc are more likely than not going to be moved for prospects How do we know that? The front office has already stated they aren't moving those guys unless they get full value in return (in their eyes). Why are we certain that they will receive a satisfactory return this offseason?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) I think they can stop now and get just as much if not more for their remaining trade assets in July. The groundwork has been laid with multiple teams so it really shouldn't take very much to get deals done once the teams can come together on the value of the prospects in the deal. At this point, I think it makes a lot more sense to hang on to Robertson through the first half to rebuild value after his knee surgery. His walk rate was up and HR's, but I feel that was because he was physically adjusting to his injury. I feel like he will be the premier late inning option available once Jansen is signed. I think Colome will be moved fairly shortly as the Rays want to move him at peak value. Melky is a professional hitter and will fill a gap for some team making a playoff run, Frazier is going to have value as teams identify their weaknesses as the season progresses. There are not many openings right now at 3B for contending teams, so as the season plays out his value will likely increase. Q's value doesn't change between now and July unless he absolutely is a wreck the first half. The likely top two starters on the market this summer will be Greinke and Q, so I think Q's value will make him the target more in demand. Abreu is the one piece that still could get moved over the winter. The Mariners, Astros, Rangers, Rockies, Pirates, Yankees, Blue Jays, and Orioles could all be in the market once Trumbo and EE are signed. Don't they almost have to move Q now too? I know people always feared a Sale injury but if they hold on to Q and he gets injured that simply destroys the entire rebuild plan. The other trade chips are unlikely to bring back half of what Q would and the Sox are in desperate need of position player prospects, especially ones who's timeframe lines up with the window of the new young core.

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) There is no way they put Giolito or Lopez in the opening day rotation. This is why you pick up 2 veteran starters to get smashed around the park.Ivan Nova, Derek Holland, and Tyson Ross all make sense to give 1/1 deals to if they are willing to accept. I hope you all are right. I have this fear that they think they can still compete by having those 3 start with the team on opening day. If the plan truly is to start all 3 in the minors, it's even more reason to move Frazier, melky, and Robertson now in my opinion. The current market conditions seem very favorable to moving those guys this offseason as soon as Jansen and Turner sign. Plus that frees up money to sign some cheap vets to plug holes with warm bodies.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) According to Hahn, all are ticketed for the minors, which makes sense in giving an extra year of control if you want until like June. Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) Was debating making a thread on this subject, but I disagree with premise. But here is Olney on subject: http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-olney/insider/post?id=15322 and Lindbergh on his podcast was saying he thinks sox could stop now and maybe even compete this year. I ... disagree. That's my biggest fear at this point. Via trade this offseason, they have removed 2 players from last year's roster but then added back 3 (assuming Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all break with the OD roster). Call me skeptical of this FO, but I won't be convinced this is a full rebuild until they deal at least 2 other lesser vets or 1 high profile vet like Q or Abreu.

I realize there is still a lot of time left in the offseason but would you be upset if the White Sox made no further trades beyond the two Drake Laroche "troublemakers" in Sale and Eaton? I was all for giving it another run in 2017 but now that the White Sox have unloaded their two best players, I would be very upset if they went into Opening Day with Frazier, Robertson, Melky, etc. still on the roster. That would certainly feel more like a retool (albeit significant retool) than a rebuild. Until a few more vets are traded, particularly ones that are well liked by management, I don't have complete trust in management to commit to a full rebuild. Hopefully they will alleviate this fear over the next few weeks.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) The only one that might be an issue is LA and I don't know why he'd block a deal if he truly wants to win. Hopefully the Marlins come through with signing KJ. That would result in the perfect scenario from a White Sox perspective: trade Robertson to the Nationals and trade Jones to the Dodgers. White Sox can skate by with Putnam at closer next season until Burdi is ready.

https://www.google.com/amp/syndication.blea...l?client=safari

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) Nate Jones is far more valuable than Eduardo Rodriguez. See Giles, Ken. Well of course. It'd be Rodriguez++ but Rodriguez as the centerpiece. I wouldn't expect a Giles type of return for Jones.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 08:27 AM) Here is the full article: FWIW-Maybe Dombrowski is playing poker w Hahn but this has been the consensus for most of the New England media as well. ww.providencejournal.com/sports/20161107/year-after-setting-market-red-sox-plan-to-be-more-reactive-this-offseason But why pick up a $13.5M option on Buchholz if they don't plan on plugging him into the rotation? Pomeranz and Wright fill the other two spots. Rodriguez appears to be the odd man out. A deal centered around Nate Jones and Rodriguez makes sense for both sides.