JUSTgottaBELIEVE

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Of course, as currently constructed we are not THAT bad But, we all know that guys like Quintana/Robertson/FRazier/etc are more likely than not going to be moved for prospects How do we know that? The front office has already stated they aren't moving those guys unless they get full value in return (in their eyes). Why are we certain that they will receive a satisfactory return this offseason?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) I think they can stop now and get just as much if not more for their remaining trade assets in July. The groundwork has been laid with multiple teams so it really shouldn't take very much to get deals done once the teams can come together on the value of the prospects in the deal. At this point, I think it makes a lot more sense to hang on to Robertson through the first half to rebuild value after his knee surgery. His walk rate was up and HR's, but I feel that was because he was physically adjusting to his injury. I feel like he will be the premier late inning option available once Jansen is signed. I think Colome will be moved fairly shortly as the Rays want to move him at peak value. Melky is a professional hitter and will fill a gap for some team making a playoff run, Frazier is going to have value as teams identify their weaknesses as the season progresses. There are not many openings right now at 3B for contending teams, so as the season plays out his value will likely increase. Q's value doesn't change between now and July unless he absolutely is a wreck the first half. The likely top two starters on the market this summer will be Greinke and Q, so I think Q's value will make him the target more in demand. Abreu is the one piece that still could get moved over the winter. The Mariners, Astros, Rangers, Rockies, Pirates, Yankees, Blue Jays, and Orioles could all be in the market once Trumbo and EE are signed. Don't they almost have to move Q now too? I know people always feared a Sale injury but if they hold on to Q and he gets injured that simply destroys the entire rebuild plan. The other trade chips are unlikely to bring back half of what Q would and the Sox are in desperate need of position player prospects, especially ones who's timeframe lines up with the window of the new young core.

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) There is no way they put Giolito or Lopez in the opening day rotation. This is why you pick up 2 veteran starters to get smashed around the park.Ivan Nova, Derek Holland, and Tyson Ross all make sense to give 1/1 deals to if they are willing to accept. I hope you all are right. I have this fear that they think they can still compete by having those 3 start with the team on opening day. If the plan truly is to start all 3 in the minors, it's even more reason to move Frazier, melky, and Robertson now in my opinion. The current market conditions seem very favorable to moving those guys this offseason as soon as Jansen and Turner sign. Plus that frees up money to sign some cheap vets to plug holes with warm bodies.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) According to Hahn, all are ticketed for the minors, which makes sense in giving an extra year of control if you want until like June. Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) Was debating making a thread on this subject, but I disagree with premise. But here is Olney on subject: http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-olney/insider/post?id=15322 and Lindbergh on his podcast was saying he thinks sox could stop now and maybe even compete this year. I ... disagree. That's my biggest fear at this point. Via trade this offseason, they have removed 2 players from last year's roster but then added back 3 (assuming Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all break with the OD roster). Call me skeptical of this FO, but I won't be convinced this is a full rebuild until they deal at least 2 other lesser vets or 1 high profile vet like Q or Abreu.

I realize there is still a lot of time left in the offseason but would you be upset if the White Sox made no further trades beyond the two Drake Laroche "troublemakers" in Sale and Eaton? I was all for giving it another run in 2017 but now that the White Sox have unloaded their two best players, I would be very upset if they went into Opening Day with Frazier, Robertson, Melky, etc. still on the roster. That would certainly feel more like a retool (albeit significant retool) than a rebuild. Until a few more vets are traded, particularly ones that are well liked by management, I don't have complete trust in management to commit to a full rebuild. Hopefully they will alleviate this fear over the next few weeks.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) The only one that might be an issue is LA and I don't know why he'd block a deal if he truly wants to win. Hopefully the Marlins come through with signing KJ. That would result in the perfect scenario from a White Sox perspective: trade Robertson to the Nationals and trade Jones to the Dodgers. White Sox can skate by with Putnam at closer next season until Burdi is ready.

https://www.google.com/amp/syndication.blea...l?client=safari

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) Nate Jones is far more valuable than Eduardo Rodriguez. See Giles, Ken. Well of course. It'd be Rodriguez++ but Rodriguez as the centerpiece. I wouldn't expect a Giles type of return for Jones.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 08:27 AM) Here is the full article: FWIW-Maybe Dombrowski is playing poker w Hahn but this has been the consensus for most of the New England media as well. ww.providencejournal.com/sports/20161107/year-after-setting-market-red-sox-plan-to-be-more-reactive-this-offseason But why pick up a $13.5M option on Buchholz if they don't plan on plugging him into the rotation? Pomeranz and Wright fill the other two spots. Rodriguez appears to be the odd man out. A deal centered around Nate Jones and Rodriguez makes sense for both sides.

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...op-priority-red

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) Pretty much his entire networth it tied up in the team. Sure but based on this JR could increase payroll ~$20-30M next season and still break even at the very least. http://www.forbes.com/teams/chicago-white-sox/

QUOTE (daggins @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) Maybe not a ton, since, if things go south, Jerry might not be inclined to keep a high payroll. I really do think that if the 2017 White Sox are hot garbage (after adding this offseason), they'll trade most of their assets. I feel like Hahn has been managing fans expectations in a way that indicates that direction. But that's the thing. By trading two expiring contracts (Melky and Frazier) and another expiring after the 2018 season (Robertson) at next year's deadline if they are not competitive, they'd be clearing a ton of payroll while keeping the core intact to add to again in the 2017-2018 offseason. That's why a guy like Reddick makes a lot of sense now and in the future. No QO, not a mega contract like Cespedes, and you plug him into LF until 2020/2021. Same can be said about Wieters and to a lesser extent Melancon due to age.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 10:33 AM) Melancon probably gets a 3-4 year deal (no QO), Wieters probably takes a 1 year deal (no QO, but I think he stays in Bal), Reddick could probably get a 4-5 year deal (A's tried to extend him for 3, he wanted 4, could probably get 5 in this market, also no QO), Fifth starter: if no one from our rotation is dealt, it probably remains how it is now. If they signed that group above and the team is not contending in July, then blow it up. Precisely but by blow it up I mean trade Melky, Frazier, and Robertson. Those three moves alone would shed ~$40M for the following season. So even if JR were to pump up the payroll to ~$150M at the start of the 2017 season, they would still have a ton of financial flexibility going into 2018.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) You just added $50 million to next year's payroll! How? I'm guessing Garcia and Lawrie are gone and the bullpen is cheaper than last year (no Duke or Albers replaced by rookies) minus whoever they sign. I'd guess Melancon, Wieters, Reddick, and a guy like Volquez costs ~$40M-45M so in total it's adding in the range of $25M to last season's payroll. As stated, if JR wants to compete now that's the cost. Going to have to spend near the $150M range.

QUOTE (daggins @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 09:57 AM) If JR was going to open the checkbook, it would have happened last offseason. He's a businessman, and his primary motive will always be to make money. As long as he's making money, i'm sure he's fine continuing the piecemeal approach of the last few seasons. So yeah, I would expect reality to match up with that MLBTR plan. He's also a businessman with an estimated net worth of $1.35B. The money is there to spend, it's just a matter of whether he's willing to spend it.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) Have you seen the free agent list? It's beyond horrific. Doesn't really matter if Reinsdorf finally decides to open the checkbook (he won't though), there isn't much to spend it on. The few quality free agents will get insane contracts. You really think Jerry will outspend all the large market clubs? And we'd have to sacrifice the 12th overall pick even if we did. More likely is several C free agents and emptying our minor league cupboard for a semi-impact guy with one or two years of control. You're right that they may not rebuild and simply do more of the same bulls***, but I can't comprehend how any intelligent fan would want us to pursue that option. Not trying to insult you, but I think Sox fans who want to "go for it" one last time are simply ignoring logic because the idea of a rebuild is so painful to them. A smart GM takes advantage of the market and the opportunities it presents. We have several assets that could be sold off and instantly provide us with an elite farm system. With an elite free agent class coming up in three years, our focus should be on building/developing a young a major league core that with a few free agent additions can be ready to compete by 2019/2020. Let's stop f***ing around with these Hail Mary efforts where everything has to go right in order to be contenders. One of these years, Sale or Quintana will go down with an injury and if we haven't moved them by this point we could very well be f***ed. I say it all the time, but we all know a rebuild will painful to endure, but it's really our only course of action at this juncture. It's pointless to come up with all these different trade scenarios for Sale and Q because it simply ain't happening. The sooner people accept this fate the easier it will be to cope with. I am one of the few on here that thinks the core of this team is solid and I don't see a reason for a complete overhaul. I have no issue with signing FAs like Melancon, Weiters (assuming he's not a QO FA), Reddick, and a fifth starter. If it turns south by the trade deadline, they can unload guys like Melky, Frazier, and Robertson for tweener minor leaguers (hoping one hits) while keeping the core intact. Teams simply don't break up a top 3 like Sale, Q, Rodon. These are guys in their prime years controlled for multiple years at an affordable rate. With the emergence of Eaton and Anderson and hopeful re-emergence of Abreu, the everyday lineup isn't that far away from competing. If Collins turns into a Schwarber-like bat, you're only a couple guys away from having a very solid lineup to compliment an outstanding starting rotation.

I said it back in August, forget about a rebuild this offseason. Ain't happening. The only way I see a rebuild happening is if they are well out of playoff contention come late July. And I'm fine with that. Now if JR is serious about contending time to open up the checkbook a bit wider than the past few years... https://mobile.twitter.com/mjzalewski/statu...2298496/photo/1

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 05:48 PM) A powerful take from the other side. Thanks for sharing, a heart breaking and all too familiar story.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 08:43 PM) We will never hear the end of this from Cub fans You mean J4L? He's going to be especially unbearable on here after this game.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-cu...rder-from-here/

So far this series, Bauer 7.2 IP and 5 earned runs (6.25 ERA). Non-Bauer Indians pitchers 36.1 IP and 4 earned runs (0.99 ERA). Thankfully Bauer won't be pitching again this series.

I'm still not feeling great about this series after this game if I'm a Cubs fan. They barely skated by with home field, most lopsided pitching matchup of the series, had to use their closer for 3 innings, and played perfect defense.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 30, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) That is because media handed the Cubs the title since spring training. I now am seeing excuse it is a year too early for Cubs, but they will be back by birthright in WS every year the next 5 seasons Not sure why people keep thinking they are a lock to dominate for the next 5 years. Yes, they have a very good young core but the thing that carrried them more than anything else this season, their pitching, has some major question marks after the next two years. Their best reliever hits free agency this offseason and 3/5 of their starting rotation hits free agency next offseason. Plus, Lester turns 33 this offseason and the only place for him to go in the coming years is down. In my eyes, their best opportunity to win a title with this group is this year and next.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 30, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) It's amazing how little respect Cleveland is getting. They're 10-2 in the postseason and absolutely dominating while the Cubs are 8-5 and have been shut out 4 times. They must have a huge chip on their shoulder and I wouldn't be surprised if they ended it tonight. Correction: Cubs are 8-6 so far in the playoffs