JUSTgottaBELIEVE

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 12:18 PM) Caroll's value is inflated by his UZR, so you'll have to take his WAR with a grain of salt. But speaking of the other guys you listed, none of them have played all that well this year... Catcher WAR values aren't involved with UZR unless they play a non-C position as well. understood and I agree those guys haven't played all that great this year (compared to their career averages at least) but still no way carroll should be ahead of any of those guys. and beckham with a UZR below 0? no way beckham has played a below average defensive second base this year. Obviously, this is a discussion for another thread, but I always take sabermetrics with a grain of salt.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 11:47 AM) Haters gon' hate on A.J.'s 11 home runs. The stats don't lie. A.J.'s been the best catcher in the AL this season. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&players=0 its's hard to take fangraphs serious when you see Jamey Carroll with a higher WAR than Adrian Beltre at 3B and higher WAR than Pedroia, Ackley, Kendrick, and Beckham at 2B. he is the definition of a "replacement level" player and even worse than replacement this year despite what the formula says on a sidenote, I do agree though that AJ is the best catcher in the AL thus far this season

Glad to see the Pack still got Cutler's number...he's now 1-5 vs. GB while starting for the Bears and 1-6 lifetime. It's hard to believe that the Bears were 7-3 vs. GB in the 5 years before Cutler arrived while starting guys like Rex Grossman, Brian Griese, and Kyle Orton. Given those GB teams weren't as good as they are now (except for '07) it is still an interesting stat.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 31, 2011 -> 12:11 PM) I disagree, Bears got a little lucky last season but they also didn't even try against GB in week17 and had a couple losses against the Seahawks/Redskins that more likely would be wins if replayed. I think it's funny that bears fans say they didn't try in the last game against GB last season, then why did most if not all their starters play the entire game? if you really aren't trying then you don't play your top starters (cutler, urlacher, briggs, etc.) in the second half of that game period

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 11:36 AM) Great move, have Ramirez bunt so they can walk Konerko and the big "presence" Adam Dunn about 2-60 against LHP facing one of the better performing LHP's this year. GMAB. If they were so scared, why did they put Konerko on? Not only did he take the bat out of Ramirez's hands, he took it out of Paulie's hands. It was an idiotic move. There is no defense, especially considering he later refused to have Beckham bunt with no out and the winning run on second. I agree with you and I will take it a step further since I was at yesterday's game. Bottom of the 7th, tie game, Castro draws a 2-out walk. Before Beckham comes up to bat, I'm calling for Lilli to pinch run for Castro in case we get lucky and Gordo hits a gapper. Few pitches later, Beckham shoots a line drive down the right field line for a double and Castro is held up at third after the ball reaches the wall. Next at-bat, Morel strands both runners with the third out, game still tied. Why not pinch run for Castro in that spot? You have to play the 7th inning on in a one run game likes it's the 9th, especially the way Mark was throwing yesterday and Crain/Santos have been throwing. Next inning, Ozzie pinch runs for Konerko while he's on first with 2 outs (also representing the go-ahead run). WTF? I know he probably wanted to give AJ the day off with the back-to-back day games but come on you are telling me AJ can't catch the last two innings (assuming no extra innings...)? Irony of the whole situation is that Castro goes down in the top of the 8th inning with the broken hand after the passed ball that almost cost the Sox the game and AJ catches the 8th and 9th regardless. The only managerial decision that I agreed with yesterday was intentionally walking Cuddyer with 2 outs and a runner on second to get to Thome. I'm usually an Ozzie supporter but wow that was a rough one for him yesterday. Glad the team was still able to overcome his awful game.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 26, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) lol, youll just spew anything to win an e-debate I guess. Ok, Orton is better than Cutler, you win. Please go back and read my posts I never said orton is better than cutler. I said cutler is better albeit marginally better but the bears would have been better served using the resources invested in cutler in improving other facets of the team. I get it you like cutler alot. I don't hate cutler but I have always thought he was overrated and as a packers fan was pleasantly surprised when they gave up what they did in the trade as well as cap space with the contract extension.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) No I dont agree with your post. I liked the trade then and I still do, and yes some of it has to do with our draft history in early rounds. Im talking about this year with Orton and Cutler. Its hilarious that you would try to use only qb rating to determine who had a better year. Ill take the 2 seed in the NFC and trip to the NFC Championship and you can have the 4-12 record or whatever it is and the higher passer rating. Never said he had a better year simply stated he had a higher qb this year and last. Its hilarious that you even compare the bears to the broncos this year and use win total as the sole basis for saying that cutler had a better year. You think cutler would have made the playoffs with that denver defense? Now that's hilarious Using that logic I guess cutler also had a better year than michael vick too since the bears won more games than the eagles and advanced two rounds further in the playoffs

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 06:54 PM) Rodgers's line is better and his WRs are in a totally different stratosphere. Knox would be like the 3rd or 4th WR on the Packers. I meant to say 2009 Packers, the line was horrid but yes i agree the WR are markedly better

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 06:45 PM) I look at a guy who got sacked 52 times, hurried at least another 150-200, had the league's 22nd ranked rushing attack, has one of the worst crops of WR in the league, and still pulled off an 87 QB rating and think "God damn, if Angelo put a hint of talent around him he'd dominate". Cutler is very, very good. I thought for a minute you were describing the Packers/Aaron Rodgers until you got to the WR position and QB rating that is...

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 06:29 PM) Kyle Ortons team was garbage and he was benched for Tebow at the end of the year. All his numbers were from mop up duty when his team was getting blown out. I get it, you dont like Jay Cutler but your opinion is just that, an opinion. the broncos were 8-8 in 2009. what was denver's record with cutler at qb in 2007 and 2008? i guess the stats from all 3 years were in mop up time?

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 06:30 PM) the Bears arent constructed to need a QB to take them to the next level. An above average qb should be fine with an improved OL and some better weapons. so then you agree with my point. they would have been better off utilizing those resources to improve other aspects of the team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 05:51 PM) He's now in his 5th year in the league, his 4th as a full time starter, and aside from the 76 rating from 2009 (all the INT's), he's posted a QB Rating of 86-88 in every year of his career. You really do hope that a long term, franchise level QB will take a bigger step forwards at some point (although yeah there are the qualifiers...lots of offensive coordinators, lack of protection in Chicago, the fact that he was viewed as raw coming out). It's too early to start really questioning things with him...but if there's a season next year, you'd really like to see some serious improvement from him. AN 86-88 QB rating is solidly in the middle of the pack for QB's every year, and I don't think that's what the Bears were hoping for when they traded for him. I agree. He's definitely not the weakest link. He's an above average QB but not a guy that will take you to the next level IMO. They are fully invested though at this point so they better hope he takes the next step soon.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 05:47 PM) He was 25 and a pro bowler when they traded for him so what are you talking about? All I am saying is that going from Orton to Cutler was a relatively small improvement at the QB position compared to the other team needs at the time of the trade. In my opinion, they would have been wise to utilize those resources in a different manner. I know the Bears suck at early round drafting but those draft picks combined with the cash tied up into Cutler's contract could have been put to better use at improving WR, OL, etc. I think it's ironic that Kyle freakin Orton had a better passer rating than Jay Cutler in each of the last two seasons...go figure

If I was a Bears fan I would be more concerned about Cutler's ability as a QB and ability to win the big game in this league rather than his attitude, ability to play through an injury, etc. Just think about how much the bears gave up for a "franchise" QB (in terms of draft picks, personnel, and cash) and you would have thought they traded for Drew Brees or Tom Brady not Jay Cutler who has proven to be an above average QB in this league but not one to take you over the top. That's what I would be upset about.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 06:53 AM) Lol how does making a bad pass equal to that of a miracle trip? The Bears did get a miracle interception though to end the first half, so Im not complaining or anything. I just feel the game was just bad for Bears fans to watch, the first 3 quarters were just plain hard to watch than they raise your hopes in 4th only to get crushed at the end. just saying the miracle trip never happens if the bad pass doesn't happen. how can you say the packers were fortunate for the rodgers tackle but bears not fortunate for the bad and uncharacteristic pass? i am tired of hearing these hypotheticals from some bears fans, there is no end to it...

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 11:15 PM) That's because everybody in the country pretty much took up your point of view - how the Bears were fortunate to face backup QBs. Well guess what, other playoff teams did too and some of them LOST. The Packers lost to Drew Stanton, the Bears didn't. The Eagles lost to Joe Webb, the Bears didn't. If you get the whole "oh look how many backups they faced" out of your head, you'll see that the Bears were one of the top 4 teams in the NFC this season and that they did have a chance to win yesterday. Hell, it took Green Bay a pick six, an injured Cutler, and one miracle trip of Brian Urlacher by Rodgers for them to pull that game out yesterday. And the Packers are the best team in the NFC. how do you know the game would have been closer if cutler wasn't injured for the second half? he showed nothing in the first half to say the bears would have even scored 14 points with him in there. don't even get started on injuries either. GB was missing nearly half of its opening day starters, how many were the bears missing? also, you say miracle trip by rodgers, i say uncharacteristic and awful pass by rodgers on 3rd down that cost them 3 points. it's all in the eyes of the beholder...

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:25 PM) Green Bay's defense is a top 3 unit and the mediocre Bears receivers are overmatched by Green Bay's corners (not even getting into the pass protection issues yet). Rodgers's QB ratings are also lower vs. the Bears than his normal QB ratings. by his standards yes, but wow that's an unbelievably tough standard...game log... 2008 - 105.8 and 87.6 2009 - 92.0 and 88.9 2010 - 92.5, 89.7, and 55.4 not too shabby, yesterday was really his only dud in 7 games

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) well...game log... 2009 - 43.2 and 74.9 2010 - 82.5, 43.5, and 31.8 seems consistently below average to me. he threw 1 TD and 1 INT in his highest rated game (82.5) in this year's first meeting. in today's nfl, i would consider an 82.5 rating average at best just did a quick lookup and median qb rating for nfl starters this year...Orton: 87.5 (#15) and Cutler: 86.3 (#16). so I would say an 85ish qb rating is average by today's standards. by those standards, all 5 of his games were below average with one game borderline average at 82.5

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:09 PM) Not a chance. His week 17 struggles had a lot more to do with Martz' stupid play calling. And his Bears debut/debacle 4-int game skews those numbers a lot. well...game log... 2009 - 43.2 and 74.9 2010 - 82.5, 43.5, and 31.8 seems consistently below average to me. he threw 1 TD and 1 INT in his highest rated game (82.5) in this year's first meeting. in today's nfl, i would consider an 82.5 rating average at best

in 5 career games against the packers (including the playoffs), cutler has a QB rating of just under 55 and a record of 1-4. sprained MCL or not, it seems that hanie gave the bears the better chance to win yesterday based on cutler's lack of success against Dom Caper's 3-4 DEF. that's a scary thought when your 3rd string QB (well really 2nd string QB) is even in the same conversation as the team's "franchise" QB. at this point, i really think the packers have gotten into his head. whether that had a factor in the way things played out yesterday afternoon, only Jay and maybe the Bears coaching staff will ever know...

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) I wonder how the Packers feel about already losing the Super Bowl. I'm sure they don't feel that way and neither does vegas... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/odds I'm a bit surprised the steelers aren't favorites but it should be a close game within a TD either way

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) Steelers did it in 2005 and then beat the #1 seed Seattle in the Super Bowl(thanks to the refs, I know I know). ok, knew they were a #6 seed but wasn't sure if they knocked off the top three seeds in the conference. gonna be a tough game against the steelers because they play well on both sides of the ball and their offense can beat you in many ways. I think they present an even tougher matchup for the packers than the patriots would have. think about this...packers built the foundation of a great defense in one round of the NFL draft...2009 NFL draft - B.J. Raji (9th overall pick) and Clay Matthews (26th overall pick). I realize that they have many other defensive playmakers like Woody, Jenkins, and Williams but Raji has been key over this 5 game win streak and Matthews... well he's been a force to reckon with since Week 6 of the 2009 season. Both second year players and only 24 years old should have a big future presuming they stay healthy.

Has any team ever knocked off the no 1,2, and 3 seeds en route to the super bowl? That's pretty crazy

Shields shields shields! But seriously that shouldn't have been that close. I wonder if rodgers suffered another concussion after that peppers hit cuz he was off the rest of the game. GO PACK GO!!!

Hey collins the game isn't over yet wake up!