JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Santos is also injured so arguably Wilson has more value as things stand approaching this July’s trade deadline. That’s all I care about at this point. If Wilson can be flipped for a couple 40/45 FV prospects in July that would be HUGE and make this trade look a lot better.

The only non-arb guys I see for sure returning next season are Benintendi, Robert, Fedde, and Brebbia. 4 other vets have options that are unlikely to be picked up from what I can tell. So you have 4 non-arb players returning none of which are terribly expensive and there’s a chance that 1 or 2 (Fedde or Brebbia) could be dealt at the deadline this year or next offseason. Looks like a pretty clean slate to me from a payroll perspective.

This season is already a lost cause so who cares. What matters is what they have committed to payroll in 2025 and beyond. And as far as I can tell, it’s very little. Like bottom 5 in the league little as we currently stand with the possibility of going even lower (if vets are dealt at the trade deadline in July).

I’m sure the bigger ballpark is a factor but his strikeout rate is slightly higher than santos too.

Also to add on to Wilson, he probably walks a few more than you’d like to see but he doesn’t get hit much. He has a career WHIP of 1.11 in over 100 IP in mlb (santos was at 1.30 last season for reference). As we’ve seen over the years, sometimes top relievers don’t find success until their late 20s.

And I wonder how much of his August struggles were attributed to his hip injury. Before that, he had an ERA below 3 and was at 3.06 the year before. Assuming he’s healthy now, he could very well be the best arm the Sox have in the pen this season. If he sports an ERA below 3 and is effective in closing games into July, he could be a very highly sought after deadline arm for a contender.

I don’t think they have a choice. There’s no quick fix here.

And despite all those short term free agent signings they’re still what #19 in payroll this season? They haven’t made any significant signings. And they have very little committed to 2025 and beyond payrolls. They have a ton of payroll flexibility after this season or at least they should pending Jerry.

Oh, it won’t happen in one offseason. This is a 3-4 year rebuild at least. Strap it down folks, it’s going to take a long time for this thing to turn around.

That’s not the debate. I said I’d prefer to have a clean slate at the mlb level with little to no payroll commitments versus a bunch of guys like Eloy and Moncada that in my mind carry negative surplus value. In theory, if they build up a top 5 farm system they should be able to produce mlb regulars at a fraction of the cost of eloy and Moncada and then can supplement with vets via free agency and/or trades. A much better situation than where they were a year ago.

Because then they have payroll to add FA vets or trade for them. If they were already maxed out on payroll and had a s%*# mlb roster and s%*# farm system they’re at a dead end (aka 2023 season).

Well, it’s certainly better than what they had last season - an expensive terrible mlb roster. If the mlb roster is terrible, I’d rather have it be super cheap. Also, this is a 3-4 year rebuild. A top 10 farm one year into the rebuild after having a bottom 3 farm 12 months prior is nothing to turn your nose up at.

Cease also had no clue where the ball was going half the time. Not sure how he is anyway comparable to Thorpe. But yes he shared many similarities with Kopech when it came to his control.

You would think after years of watching top prospect Kopech walk 5 batters per 9 innings, acquiring a top prospect that actually throws strikes and still gets a bunch of whiffs would be a positive thing. But nah, soxtalk says give me the guy that throws 100 but has no idea where the ball is going lol

Fangraphs has their farm at #12 now. Quote the improvement in less than a year. Should be top 10 after the trade deadline with very little money committed to mlb payroll after this season. About as clean of a slate as you could ask for at the onset of a new rebuild.

Come on, this is going to take years to turn around no matter what Jerry and Getz say. This isn’t a 1-2 year rebuild. If they’re competitive in 2026/2027, I’d consider that a win. I have no interest in burning service time on old prospects like Hall and Ortiz in the meantime.

I think you’re right because I was one of the few posters advocating for a pitching heavy return in a cease trade. As mentioned this morning, my ideal return was Snelling + Thorpe + low level prospect. Got Iriarte and Zavala instead of Snelling so that’s a little disappointing to me but who knows it might work out.

Are you trying to win in 2024? If so, I would agree with you but that’s not the situation the Sox are in, not even remotely close to it.

They were a great team in 2020 and 2021 but the competitive window should have lasted another couple years. That’s on a Hahn as well as scouting / player development. Time will tell if that has improved any under the current regime.

Sure but what did they have after the top guys? Just seemed like a barren wasteland. I’m hoping that in addition to 10-12 top prospects getz is able to build additional depth beyond that. And, hopefully, he will also be more effective in free agency when it’s time to spend serious money.

But you have to admit, many of your fellow posters would have considered Kjerstad + Norby + Beavers an overpay for Cease

Not interested in trading Robert? I don’t see much of a choice here. It’s not like they’ll extend him after his contract concludes unless he has a TA style precipitous falloff.

Who cares? Neither did the orioles in 2018.

Huh? Odd question. I think having 10-12 top prospects for this next rebuild is a must. Last rebuild was loaded at the top but had very little depth and we saw how that played out. This group has a chance to be much deeper even if it’s not as “strong” at the top.

I said this months ago. If the Sox trade robert next winter, there’s a very real possibility they have 8 top 100 mlb prospects after that trade is completed. They now have 4 with several fringe top 100 guys like Ramos, zavala, Iriarte, quero. They’ll add a 5th in the draft and Robert should return at least 2 if he has another big year.