JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Ok so like #25 in mlb. I think they’ll be better than that. Either way, it helps Cease.

Just take a guess. I’m sure you have an opinion.

He only goes by fangraphs unless it hurts his narrative like it does with Cease then fangraphs doesn’t count. I don’t think Benintendi is a great defender but I think he’s average. There are a lot of really poor defensive LFers in mlb.

Where do you think the Sox will rate as a team defensively in 2024? I say they’ll be in the # 10-15 range in MLB depending on what they do with RF and injuries. They were dead last in 2023 by pretty much any measure. You don’t think that’ll help Cease across the board?

I said the combo of Maldonado/Stassi should be average defensively and should also be a defensive upgrade from what the Sox put out there last season at catcher. I’m not expecting 30 year old Maldonado.

Again, anything is an upgrade over Grandal despite Grandal’s “terrific” framing. Do you think Seby was a better defender than Stassi too?

Or maybe a hall of fame manager trusted Maldonado more than Diaz on the biggest stage? But you probably know more than Dusty and his coaching staff, who am I kidding.

I’ve said it for a long time but the one position I think fangraphs is terrible at assessing defensive value is catching. Grandal was a “premier” defender before the Sox signed him and yet the Dodgers would bench him in the playoffs. Yanier Diaz rated as a “better” defensive catcher than Maldonado last season and yet the Astros started Maldonado every playoff game even though Diaz is the far superior hitter. Maybe the Dodgers and Astros are dumb and fangraphs knows better? Or maybe fangraphs has no clue when it comes to rating catchers’ defensive value. Which is more likely?

I just looked it up. Maldonado caught 87 out of 99 innings played last postseason for the Astros. If he was so terrible defensively, why did he catch basically every inning pitched except when they subbed him late in games for a pinch hitter??

How much did you actually see Maldonado catch last season and if he was as terrible as you say why was he catching for them in the playoffs??? Surely, the Astros are smarter than that… Fangraphs inflated Cease’s value in 2023 but it didn’t inflate Grandal’s defensive value over his entire career? Not sure how anyone that watched Grandal catch for the white sox over the past four seasons could argue he’s anything but a terrible defensive catcher, especially the last couple seasons. Even before the Sox signed him I said his defense was way overrated but everyone would always reference fangraphs and his great “framing.” That’s great and all but the guy can’t block, he can’t throw, and he made some huge mental mistakes. I won’t even get into the pitch calling. He was terrible.

Huh? Stassi didn’t play last season. And Grandal caught 92 games (started 79) so I disagree. Zero chance Maldonado is a worse defender than Grandal.

Maldonado/Stassi will still be an upgrade from what they ran out there last season and average overall defensively imo. I also think Benintendi will be fine out there, nothing great but not a liability either. Dejong, phillips, and López would all be significant defensive upgrades from last season.

Add Clifford or Gilbert to that deal and I think that feels about right for both sides.

Yep. Almost seems like that’s what Getz is doing. Limited budget, won’t be able to acquire any big bats so might as well field a strong defense to help the pitchers, a few of whom may be traded in July - Cease, Soroka, Fedde, Flexen, Santos, etc.

Agreed. I know they won’t score any runs but with Phillips in RF, the Sox theoretically have one of the best defensive teams in MLB. López, Dejong, Moncada, Robert, and Phillips are all plus defenders. Stasis/Maldonado, Benintendi are average defenders. The only below average defender is Vaughn and it’s at the least critical position on the field.

I’ve never seen a bigger mid season transformation than what Jordan Love did this season. First half of the season he looked like garbage, second half of the season he looked like the league MVP. Wild turnaround. Curious to see how he does against a cowboys team that’s really really good at home.

Packers had a bunch of first and second year WRs. None drafted in the first round. PFF had them as a bottom 5 pass catching group entering the season. I believe the Texans were ranked last…

Orioles fans won’t like this but I believe Cease’s value right now is comparable to Luis Castillo in July 2022. The Reds landed 3 of the Mariners top 5 prospects (1 was fringe top 10 in mlb, 1 was top 100 in mlb, 1 was fringe top 100 in mlb) and then a lotto prospect. I don’t think Cease will land a top 10 prospect but 2 in the 50-100 range and 2 in the 100-200 range is certainly possible.

Lowder, Arroyo, Phillips, and Petty is 2 premium prospects and 2 additional non-top 100 mlb prospects but top 10 for the reds. I don’t see it as a ridiculous request. Take either Petty or Phillips away and it’s a fair deal imo.

I’m not disputing that report! I don’t know how much more clearly I can say it. Lowder and arroyo are top 100 prospects albeit on the back half of the top 100. Petty and Phillips are fringe top 100. Phillips is no longer a top 100 guy on updated lists! Maybe because he walked the park in AAA and got shelled in MLB late last year, which happened after the list that you keep referencing was last updated…

Except Phillips is no longer a top 100 prospect….so they didn’t ask for 3 top 100 prospects…

No but that’s not what the Sox asked for either. They asked for 2 top 100 players, two fringe top 100 prospects, and a lotto. If I was a reds fan, I would trade 2 top 100 players, a fringe top 100, and a lotto for Cease (eg, one less fringe top 100 guy). Does that answer your dumb question?

If the Sox were in the reds position I would trade Schultz, Quero, Ramos, and a couple lotto tickets for Cease.

? in addition to the Yankees, that’s a team I’d really like to see involved with Cease. Perfect fit for them too. If they bring back Bellinger, sign Chapman, and trade for Cease, they’re an easy favorite in the NL Central. They certainly have the farm system and pitching prospects to land Cease, there’s no doubt about that.

There’s risk to waiting for sure. But it’s also possible that in another 6 months we find out Joey Ortiz is indeed Madrigal 2.0 and Cowser is Stowers 2.0. Anything can happen and I’d sure be pissed to trade for those two as the headliners if that’s their outcome. I’m perfectly fine with Getz waiting for the guys he likes/wants rather than forcing a trade for a lesser return out of fear of Cease regressing further.