kwolf68

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 07:30 PM) We got two class A level prospects in trades for two pretty good major league players. Couldn't we at least get a little legaue player for Jose? This is simply ridiculous There is a kid on one of the little league teams where I coach and he is awesome. He's a great kid too, with a good head on his shoulders and is already a terrific switch hitter as a 12 year old. He won a game against us (the first time we played them) with a 2 run walkoff homer that cleared the fence by 40 feet. His name is Jason, he is from Ithaca, NY...he is a little league catcher, pitcher, corner IF and any OF position...If you were to tell me Jose could be available for him I'd love for the White Sox to get Jason as a "sign and follow" prospect. Only thing is, I don't think the FOP little league team would accept Contreras.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 07:30 PM) i agree, but i can't recall seeing a player who makes $10 million + get demoted to AAA for sucking. Can you? No, but has one making $10 million a year been this plum horrid? I'd love to see the research.

That ZERO you see is the chances of anyone outside of the California penal league taking a chance at Jose...he is now officially a stiff.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 07:27 PM) because he's making $10 million a year. Good send him and his limo down to Charlotte. I don't care if he is making a zillion dollars a year, the guy is not worth s*** right now. He can't get outs and has no use in any starting rotation.

What a way to top off getting John Link during the big trading deadline.

We sent Mike MacDougal to AAA for stinking, so why does Jose continue to get his starts? Give Floyd the chance or maybe I am a glutton for punishment, but how about Sisco...he has 3 straight starts in AAA for 14 innings giving up 7 hits, 8 walks and 16 strikeouts with ZERO runs allowed. I don't like the walk numbers, but everything else for AAA is damn good. Lets give him a look instead of this insanity with Count.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:52 PM) Because he doesn't agree with your opinions? Perhaps he has more foresight than to trade Garland for .70 cents on the dollar while mediocre FA pitchers will be commanding $10 million annually. I appreciate your opinions, honestly. But don't you think that you claiming KW has no foresight is sort of hypocritical when you are not at all privy to enough information to even be qualified to know where this team is going? If bad FA pitchers are commanding 10 mill annually then I have to expect we won't resign Garland in 2008 unless the Sox really start opening up their wallets. What information do I need to know where the team is going? -I know the ages of the team -I know their injury history -I know our record -I know we are one game out of last -I know the past is typically the best predictor of the future -I know our minor leagues are crap -I know we did nothing to improve that -I know we did nothing to improve our current team -I know we traded a role playing major leaguer for a player 4 levels below what we originally acquired that player for -I know Jose Contreras was more marketable 3 months ago than he is today...BY A MILE -I know Garland is a FA after 2008, it will be tough to resign him, but if we do we should do it PRIOR to this season ending I personally believe Williams wants to avoid last place and maybe all the moves I want happen then, but until then this season has been wretched.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:49 PM) agree completely. as for dye, for whatever reason the market wasn't great. It wasn't great because he is a FA to be...we'll get to have this same fun next year with Garland.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:46 PM) They don't have to be traded, a simple release would do nicely. They are completely useless to this ballclub and do nothing but take up space. You are right, but the sad stinking thing is they are considered cornerstones of this team and their injuries will be peddled as an excuse on why this team sucks and a reason no serious improvements were made.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:37 PM) Dude. Come back to reality. Agree or disagree with his moves, KW isn't some 4th grade dropout. Nope. Kenny Williams is actually a brilliant man with a Stanford degree, but this trade was crap and how he has handled this franchise over the past two years is crap. He brought in aging Mash Unit veterans. Now we are stuck with guys like Grinderstad, Count The ERA go upula, and other various and sundry scrubs who have no business on a major league team (Gonzalez). He not only failed to improve the current team, but did nothing for the future. He evidentally spent all day trying to get Delcarman from Boston and while it was speculated he wasn't getting offers from other clubs I for one doubt he gave any real effort as he probably (as per usual with him) got it in his head he just HAD TO HAVE Delcarman. Instead of being turned down and focusing on making another deal that may have been just as good, he arrogantly stood fast in the all or nothing concept. So we move on with one of the most uninspiring teams in baseball....Then guess what will happen next year? We'll probably suck when Erstad and Pods gets injured, Gonzalez and terrero continue to prove their ineptitude, Jose just doesn't have it after turning 67 years old and we'll be heading to the trade deadline 15 out looking to improve for the future....And Jon Garland will be a real trading piece yet also a free agent to be and we won't be able to get crap for him either, because he'll 'be a rental". And the movie Groundhog Day continues. There is absolutely no foresight in anything Williams is doing.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) No hes getting rid of old players so that new younger playsers can be auditioned. Thats called rebuilding. Would you rather have Mack and Iguchi play all year, or have younger guys who may be here in the future? If he could have traded Erstad and Pods for any value Im sure theyd be gone too. Mack had no place in the future of the organization, with the reality that rebuilding may take atleast next year. And if some how the Sox can be a contender next year, Mack was certainly not going to be a major piece of the puzzle. I see no loss in value for the Sox, so I dont see what the problem is. LMMFAO...Rebuilding? No, it's just giving more time to scrubs like Andy Gonzalez, Luis Terrero, and Jerry Owens. Rebuilding isn't trading a role player for nothing so you can insert an even worse role player while adding NOTHING to the minor leagues. This was nothing but a Kenny Williams dog and pony show...because he couldn't get anything substantive done, he make this bogus trade so someone would talk about him.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:32 PM) I want to feel bad, but then again, he plays a game for a living. I feel bad, because we are a very old, injury riddle team one game ahead of Kansas City for Dead F Last and not only does the current team not get improved, but nothing is done for our future either. Further, with Mack gone it means Gonzalez plays a much bigger role, a terrible recipe.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:26 PM) Call bulls*** all you want, but no one is trading major spects for bench players who are old. Who in the hell said we should get a major spect for Mack? How about someone who can at least cut it as a starter at a level just above college. This trade has DUNCE written all over it. Not because Mack will become anything special in San Diego, but because there appears to be no rhyme or reason for it...KW just trading players so he can 'be involved' in the process without doing jacks*** for this team.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:22 PM) puhleeze. He sure as heck made some mistakes, but I blame the folks on the field a lot more than Kenny for this year. Look at the personnel areas where the Sox went bad... the 'pen, most people felt would be inconsistent but not this bad. The hitters not living nearly to their typical numbers? The injuries? I'm sorry, but KW is pretty far down the list of people whose heads should roll. Start with some of the players, and some of the coaching staff as well. And as for these deadline deals, the Gooch deal was fine, and I don't blame him for keeping a now-hot-hitting Dye instead of trading for Wily Mo and a not-great prospect (sounds like they took Delcarmen, et al off the table). The Mack deal, well... there I have to agree. The players not living up to their numbers are doing so because some are past their shelf life (Count, Pods, Erstad) The injuries were starring everyone in the face. Williams has built a team full of injury proned veterans: Erstad, Thome, Pods, Crede, even Dye all have spent time on the DL or injured. This can't come as a shock to anyone. No, there was nothing KW could do now, because he waited too damn long to see the forrest through the trees. Maybe had he jettisoned some of these plodders, geezers, and cripples before it was finally proven that's what they were we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd still be s***ty, but at least we'd be s***ty with a serious future, a future only made by loading up on bright young talent while trading potential dead weight before everyone in America realizes it is dead weight. Then you have his almost mindless trades of Gooch and Mack for barely nothing. Non-prospect A ball players, one of which who can't even cut as a starter it at a level just above college. Williams did oversee the 2005 run, but is now the pure architect of this current disaster of a franchise.

QUOTE(toasty @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) i dont neccessarily like the return for mack, but we have too friggen many super-sub utility types on this team it's good to get one gone Then just DFA him, or trade (or DFA) one of the super-sub utility guys that are not as good as Mack (Gonzalez will now be a major player on the White Sox next year, how freaking sad...and when Grinderstand and Pods pull up lame, then Andy G becomes our neew #2 hitter...)

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) You think he'll move through the organization that quickly ?

QUOTE(Chet Lemon @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) Exactly. I like Mack and Iguchi as much as the next guy, but Mack will never become a starter and Iguchi's skills have diminished. We had to deal a hard throwing MAJOR LEAGUE lefty reliever to get Mack...why was our return on this side so bad? It doesn't add up. The dude isn't even a starter at A ball. A ball is the dumbest place to trade for prospects, unless they are part of a package, because everyone knows its unlikely even the 'good ones' make it. We didn't just get good ones, but mediocre ones...at A ball, may as well have just DFA'd Mack to save on paperwork. Hapless and stupid move by Williams.

So does the Mack trade mean Williams got taken by the Pirates GM? Less than 2 years ago we dealt a lefty (although an enigma) MAJOR league relief pitcher for Mack...today we get a single A relief pitcher for him.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:07 PM) hey at least we plugged the holes winsten salem had for a RH Set up guy next year....weren't you worried about that spot?

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) I pitty him... they will eat him alive if they haven't already. He was banned before he type his last period.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 03:56 PM) Well believe me, you won't get any argument from me, I hated that trade since the day it happened. Unfortunately, KW just got tired of hearing Ozzie complain about Marte and used him to acquire a guy he had been targetting for a while. But to expect us to get a stud LH relief pitcher back for Mack, at this point. That's just not reality. Didn't expect a stud lefty relief P, but at least someone in AA who was a starter. A single A relief pitcher is akin to DFA'ing Mack. Further, it makes no sense...what was the point in making this deal? Mack is a versatile player and a good player...I suppose this means Andy Gonzalez becomes our new utlity guy...oh joy, just let the World Titles come rollign in now.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) What on earth would you expect for Mackowiak? We did trade a left-handed MAJOR LEAGUE reliever for him a year and a half ago. So, adjusted for deflation I'd think we could get maybe a AA starter...a single A relief pitcher? May as well have kept Mack on the team, he's better than several of the bums we have.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) A single A reliever at that. John Link, Class A pitcher Good lord. Williams is just giving players away now. What in the hell is the point of this trade?

QUOTE(frankie5angels @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 03:44 PM) In actuality who really thought KW would improve this team at the deadline this year? He didn't do anything to help it last year at the deadline and we were in a pennant race. So to me this is no surprise at all. Well hold on now...Kenny did trade two solid major league players and has gotten back 2 single A players (from some reports the Padres got Mack for a single A player). SINGLE A???? You may as well draft a kid on the sandlot. You don't know jackcrap about a player until he makes it to AA at least.

Man, you're quick.