kwolf68

Geeze.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) Is Kenny the worst Trading Deadline Gm in the league, he never improves the team. I remember in 2005 i was screamin at him. Of all the times to scream at KW, 2005 wasn't it.

Murphy, Hansen, and Pena for Dye would be quite a solid return for Kenny to pull in. I doubt it happens. I know about Murphy, very Ryan Sweeney-esque to me, but with a bit more speed. Hansen has struggled some but still has great upside, a + fastball and + slider and Pena is already loved by the masses.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 01:12 PM) That's such bulls*** though....it's such an excuse being stated by KW. Milwaukee and Atlanta had no problem giving up highly rated prospects for players. KW is HORRIBLE at trading veterans for prospects, end of story. I'm not looking forward to the excuses we'll hear in the press tonight if nothing happens. Kenny does well when he deals off our prospects for established players, but not the other way around. Kenny has shown the tendency to hold onto players until after they are exposed, at the end of their shelf life...had we dealt Crede (to the Angels), Dye (coming off that monster year) and Contreras prior to this seasons we'd probably have half these kids we want today, that we have no chance at getting. But now, Dye is at the end of his contract, Crede's back finally gave way, and Jose's wheels came off. I know it's easy to say, "who could have predicted those things", but that's why some GMs are consistently great and others hit or miss or bad. I don't think KW is a bad GM, but he is far from great despite the 2005 title.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 01:00 PM) KW is too stubborn to make something happen... Wily Mo would have at least been something new and young. And a RFA next year. I think Kenny is doing the right thing by wanting another player...even if it's a guy I don't really want (Delcarman), it's still a player with some talent, who is young as well. Dye for Pena is not an acceptable deal.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 12:12 PM) He is out for probably the rest of the year after having shoulder surgery on July 2. I think we could keep Cintron next season as a backup option to Arias and if Arias cant fit the bill we could make another deal at that time. I think maybe Brian Anderson and a pitcher, one of Aardsma, Phillips, Day or Sisco would be a good deal for the Rangers. They need a CF after dealing Lofton and were thinking of moving Arias there. With good hitters in the corners, Cruz and Botts or Mayberry, the Rangers could add a defensive minded player in the OF. Anderson isn't the star we thought he would be, but is still young and has some upside. So I wouldn't want to give up Aardsma in a package for a guy who missed the entire year injured. If he had shoulder problems how will that affect his throw from the 3b/SS hole? If they took Phillips or Sisco in the deal I'd probably do it as I dont think either will ever be much in the bigs (although Sisco has pitched fairly well lately)

QUOTE(AirScott @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 11:45 AM) Wikipedia tells me he was on the 60-day DL to start the season. His MiLB.com page tells me he's hitting .182 with Oklahoma this season, and he hasn't played since June 29...the internet kind of sucks for information sometimes, I wish I was a Baseball America subscriber. Wow, he could come cheap, but no gurantee he would be ready to assume the SS role in Chicago next year. I'd love to take a flier on him however, but wouldn't want to have him without a credible alternative. Arias may spend another year in AAA.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 11:01 AM) if we can get laroche and one of hu or meloan id do it for garland.....i think its funny how people here will cream their pants over saltalamacchia, who hit all of .230 last year, but nobody seems to get excited over a guy like laroche who has been a fairly consistent .315 hitter with a .400 obp and 15-20 HR in the minors.....yes, he plays third base, but acquiring a guy like this would allow us to move fields to LF next year and maybe let crede play out his contract Consiering what the Braves gave up for Tex, I believe we could get more than those two prospects. I do like LaRoche, but he just doesn't fill a need and he isn't someone we groom for 3 years down the road, he is close to being ready. If we got Laroche, Crede (or Fields) would have to go I'd think. Crede has very little value right now (obviously).

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:54 AM) I think Garland for Kemp, Hu/Mattingly, and Meloan would be a good deal. I would rather have Mattingly than Hu because I think that he projects to be the better offensive player, but he night eventually need to move to second base. I think we could pick up Arias from Texas for a minor league pitcher to play SS next season now that Young has been signed to an extension. Meloan has the chance to be Broxtons equal and can be the closer of the future. The Braves would probably be a bad fit for Jenks as they have a closer now, and three more potential closers in waiting with Soriano, Gonzalez, and Devine. I think that there would be a better fit for Bobby that would pay off more for the Sox. The Yankees could be a good fit in the offseason if they do not resign Rivera, San Diego if Hoffman retires, the Reds if they are thinking of re-tooling their pitching. There are no contending teams that are in dire need of a closer so the return would not be as high as we would want, so trading Jenks doesnt make very much sense until the winter. I wonder how Arias did this year in the minors...no doubt he projects as a fine prospect and the Rangers just acquired a brilliant SS prospect from Atlanta and still have Young. Arias looks available to me, but what woule we need to trade to them to get him? I just don't know how highly they value him and what we could offer.

QUOTE(SoxFan77 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:39 AM) There is no way the Dodgers give you that.. Why would they trade for A lesser version of Broxton? DUh! I didn't say they would, I said this is what it'd take to get Jenks off our team? Essentially, they'd have to overpay...we have nothing in sight remotely close to being able to pickup if Jenks was traded. And Jenks is a lesser version of Broxton? How many careeer saves does he have?

And the thing I wonder about Delcarman. He is currently 3rd in the Boston bullpen, yet the Red Sox would actually think about trading him? This reminds me of the White Sox in 2005. Could anyone conceivably think of trading say Cliff Politte? Heck no, too important. Of course, the next year Cliff was out of the game, but for 2005 he was simply too valuable to move. However, here are the Red Sox possibly dealing their 2007 version of Politte instead of someone on their AA club? It tells me they don’t think Delcarman is all that, he is expendable, and this is the time to deal him. Delcarman isn’t that good, he’s ok and has had a nice run this year, but he is becoming more hittable over his last few games. With Mike MacDougal performing so well in AAA, I don’t see why we need to add another ordinary talent to a less than ordinary pen. Call up MacDougal and work on something else. Plus, sleeping on such a tepid deal makes no sense. I can't imagine Kenny hasn’t talked to other teams. While we are hearing about Dye-Boston over and over, it’s being reporting LIKE this is KW's only option'so he has to 'sleep on it'. Then we get this information that Dye may sign a new deal with the White Sox. I still have a feeling Dye will be traded today and I have a feeling it won’t be the Red Sox.

The Dodgers made a strong push for Joe Blanton last night but their offer fell short. However, talks are not completely dead. The Dodgers offered two position players and one pitcher from their minor league stash. Rosenthal suggests those were among Andy LaRoche, Chin-Lung Hu, Tony Abreu, and Jonathan Meloan. Matt Kemp, James Loney, and Jonathan Broxton would not be part of any deal. Anyway the Dodgers will now turn their focus to relievers, though I wouldn't be surprised to see Colletti re-engage on Blanton in the next seven hours. So the Dodgers appear to have taken Ethier, Kemp and Kershaw out of the deal. This is probably why we can't get anything done with them on Garland. Although a package of Hu and Meloen is a good start, but would clearly not be enough to get Jon Garland. I like LaRoche, but don't perceive he to be a need for the Sox.

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:17 AM) With the exception of Fields, what solid position players do we have for the next 5+ years that are not over 30 years old???? Trading Jenks could bring 2-3 quality players that could be fixtures for years..... None. We are an aging, injury prone team. Still, I don't want to trade Jenks unless he is part of a package that could return us a potential closer and a lot of other talent. Something like Garland + Jenks to the Dodgers for Kershaw, Hu, Kemp/Ethier, Broxton (Broxton would become the closer) It would take that type of deal, that landed a bevy of serious talent and a possible replacement for me to part with Mr. Jenks.

I wonder what in the world the Dodgers are offering for Garland. One report says they dont' want to trade their young talent. So what do they want to give up for Garland? Randy Wolf? Atlanta gave up a truckload for Tex, why is it we can't get a fair market deal for a player like Garland? As far as Dye, Delcarman+Pena is a horrible move. Delcarman is 'just another guy' who had a good streak earlier this year.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 09:15 PM) So how many minds about the Iguchi trade does this change? Not mine, the Twins got two scrubs.

QUOTE(vandy125 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 09:00 PM) Can we get off of Chris Young for once? Last I knew, he was not a member of the White Sox, and we have a guy who has been doing pretty well lately. Javier Vazquez, do you know that guy? Other people brought it up. Maybe Kenny should have found a way to deal Anderson, keeping Young out of the Vazquez deal. Yea, Javier is a good pitcher and anyone could see he has above average stuff. The key is to minimize your investment. We have Anderson rotting away hitting .250 in AAA ball, while Young is on a 30-30 pace.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 09:04 PM) Remember how awful the offense was in 2005? Scratch and claw for every run. In that year we had Cotts and Polite pitch lights out in middle relief. Good starting pitching, good middle relief and a good closer...with just enough offense to win. That formula can work in 2008 or 09. Remember the Contreas of 17 wins in a row? What if that is Vaz next year? What if Danks is 20% better next year. What if Gio is rookie of the year. A team needs a bit of luck to win...and a some talent. Sox HAVE talent...it just didn't work this year. We'll get them next year (while we sit back and polish our WS trophy) Too many 'what ifs'. But back to your point, yes....a good leadoff hitter is paramount. And yes, we have some talent, but too much of that talent is one dimensional and it's not like Cleveland, Minnesota, and Detroit don't have this. In fact, Detroit and Minnesota both have pitching that is BETTER than the White Sox. In 2005 no one had better pitching than the White Sox, especially when it counted. So if your scenario that sees John Danks become the next Ron Guidry, Javier wins the Cy Young, and Gio becomes the next Steve Carlton play out then yes...we don't need a lot from our hitting...just a couple rabbits and 2 or 3 boppers to hit the occasional 3-run homer. Trouble is, our pitching LIKELY won't come to that, and we'll still have a horrible hitting shortstop who has the added talent of not being able to steal bases, and an outfield that is one of the worst I have ever seen. EVER. I think we ran an OF of Andy Gonzalez, Rob Mackowiak and Jerry Owens onto the field for one game a couple weeks ago. I don't know if Ozzie was laughing or crying when he made out that lineup card. Point is, I don't think in this division with the multiple teams we have to compete against ...all very difficult, it a smart thing to continue to run out geezers, injury-riddled players, guys who can't run a lick playing this station to station baseball against teams not only talented, but YOUNG and talented. As players like Grady Sizemore, Matt Garza, Andrew Miller, Joe Mauer continue to get better and better with more experience our guys just get older and older. The writing was clearly on the wall last year when even the Royals played better ball after the ASB and currently stand .5 games from pushing the Sox into last place. I am at peace with a rebuilding movement. The 2005 team was built with a bunch of deals where we sent prospects for established players. Deals Kenny made to get in Jose, Freddy, Garland (maybe before KW), Uribe, Pods, AJP...the acquistiion of Jenks, Hermy, Pollite, and Iguchi...Kenny nailed it, hit a homer, bringing in a bunch of solid guys to help win it all. Now, I'd like to see him go the other way, bring in serious future talent for our aging, but somewhat productive veterans.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:57 PM) The Braves are said to be still interested in acquiring a starting pitcher. Now that the Braves have Tex and their LF situation is set with Diaz and Willie, they don't have any room for Thorman. I wouldn't mind seeing a trade of Contreras + cash for Thorman and maybe someone else. If we can get any viable ball player with a pulse for Count we take it. The guy looks like he is finished.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:56 PM) We have a young affordable closer who is leading the Al in saves on a team that won the WS 18 months ago. The team is NOT that bad. If they had any offense or any relief pitching in the first half we would be close right now. And next year? Buehrle-Garland-Vaz-Danks-and a rejuvenated Contreas (12 months ago at this time we were talking about the Count as one of the top five pitchers in baseball). We do NOT have to dismantle. Just fix long relief, lead off man and avoid injuries. Sadly, this isn't realistic. This team has been built with aging, injury prone players. Don't think for a second we didn't expect Thome, Erstad, and Pods not to spend some time on the DL. Toss in Joe Crede's back issues and the advancing age of J.Dye and his knee issues and it's no wonder we struggled. If we return the same crew next year, history says they will spend time on the DL. And when one of these guys goes down or the bullpen flames, we bring up players from our AAA who simply don't look like they belong in the majors. Josh Fields has shown the most promise and while Jerry Owens has a few skills I can't see him as a cornerstone CF for a serious championship ballclub.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:08 PM) Not even close. Young may never hit above .250 in the bigs Young in his first full season is currently hitting .244 and is on pace for 25 homers and 30+ steals. He also plays a mean centerfield. Chris Young is a terrific terrific young player and does appear to have a huge future ahead of him.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) And then who would close out games? Depends on who was acquired. If Jenks, for instance, was dealt to the Dodgers, then maybe Broxton would be one of those turned back to Chicago, at which point he'd close. Outside of that, Dewon Day.

According to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, the Twins could be receiving catcher Drew Butera and outfielder Dustin Martin from the Mets in the Luis Castillo trade. That's it? The draft picks Castillo would have brought are far more valuable that those two. The Twins can't really be this cheap, can they? Butera, 23, has hit .231/.297/.344 between Single-A St. Lucie and Double-A Binghamton this year. Martin, also 23, was hitting .287/.358/.421 for St. Lucie. Neither player projects as a major leaguer.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) Then why mention his name if he isn't a realistic option at all? Carl Crawford doesn't make sense because you're right, we can't get him. The Sox have been linked to players that are available for trade, how many guys currently on the block fit the description of a speedy small baller? Micheal Bourn comes to mind and he has been mentioned in connection with a Javy Vazquez deal. Also Coco Crisp has been mentioned, as much as I dislike him as a player he does match the description of the type of guy you're looking for. Because of the 'type' of player he is. And Michael Bourn is exactly what I am talking about, but I didn't have him on my mind. Next time I'll be more specific. My critique was on the obsession with all-or-nothing power hitters when we should be looking at players with more versatility. Mentioning Carl Crawford was a very serios and egregious error on my part.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) Take a look at the post that was submitted a few seconds before yours, that's what I was referring to. Ahh, and i do agree with you on that. Gooch brought nothing. Still think we sold low...but it was probably a PR move to not try to rake Philly over the coals in their time of need (losing the amazing Chase Utley).

I think this argument is done...The Willie Mo bandwagon will be boarding over there under the cool breeze of the swings and misses. I do have to wonder...with all this talk about the Sox needing to add speed, get better on defense, play small ball...how come we are linked to all these stinking power hitters out there? First Adam Dunn and now Pena. Why in the hell do we need either of those guys? Carl Crawford (spare me the we can't get him, as I know) makes sense, those guys don't.